Clerkships - please help.

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jeremybates
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Clerkships - please help.

Postby jeremybates » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:04 am

1.What international patent/IP courts have clerkships?
2.Does the UN have clerkships in International Criminal Tribunals (ICTY/R, etc.)?
3.Are Court of Appeals clerkships less competitive than SCOTUS? Probablility: applicants vs. accepted.
4.DO experts recommend more than one clerkship, such as DC circuit court and then either SCOTUS or a second federal/COA clerkship, with the goal being teaching at a good or great law school and/or working at a top firm?

Thanks y'all!

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patrickd139
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Re: Clerkships - please help.

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:14 am

jeremybates wrote:1.What international patent/IP courts have clerkships?
2.Does the UN have clerkships in International Criminal Tribunals (ICTY/R, etc.)?
3.Are Court of Appeals clerkships less competitive than SCOTUS? Probablility: applicants vs. accepted.
4.DO experts recommend more than one clerkship, such as DC circuit court and then either SCOTUS or a second federal/COA clerkship, with the goal being teaching at a good or great law school and/or working at a top firm?

Thanks y'all!

Judging from an earlier post of yours, you're not even in law school yet, correct? If so, you have much larger, more pressing matters to attend to. (Like taking the LSAT and getting into a SCOTUS-quality or professor-producing law school for realz.) Just my initial thoughts.

As far as answering your questions: 1) no clue (sorry) 2) again, no clue; 3) both are extremely competitive (one of those "if you have to ask..." kinda things; 4) not sure about these experts you speak of, but I believe a SCOTUS clerkship usually pre-dates a federal circuit judge clerkship. There are tons of threads on here about being a professor, but the gist of it is that, statistically, you should go to HLS, YLS or Chicago, or do extremely well at another top law school.

Other than that you might check out the Eastern District of Texas for the latest patent news. HTH.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Clerkships - please help.

Postby dextermorgan » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:27 am

patrickd139 wrote:
jeremybates wrote:1.What international patent/IP courts have clerkships?
2.Does the UN have clerkships in International Criminal Tribunals (ICTY/R, etc.)?
3.Are Court of Appeals clerkships less competitive than SCOTUS? Probablility: applicants vs. accepted.
4.DO experts recommend more than one clerkship, such as DC circuit court and then either SCOTUS or a second federal/COA clerkship, with the goal being teaching at a good or great law school and/or working at a top firm?

Thanks y'all!

Judging from an earlier post of yours, you're not even in law school yet, correct? If so, you have much larger, more pressing matters to attend to. (Like taking the LSAT and getting into a SCOTUS-quality or professor-producing law school for realz.) Just my initial thoughts.

As far as answering your questions: 1) no clue (sorry) 2) again, no clue; 3) both are extremely competitive (one of those "if you have to ask..." kinda things; 4) not sure about these experts you speak of, but I believe a SCOTUS clerkship usually pre-dates a federal circuit judge clerkship. There are tons of threads on here about being a professor, but the gist of it is that, statistically, you should go to HLS, YLS or Chicago, or do extremely well at another top law school.

Other than that you might check out the Eastern District of Texas for the latest patent news. HTH.

I think you have that backwards. Most SCOTUS clerks are CoA clerks first.

jeremybates
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Re: Clerkships - please help.

Postby jeremybates » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:36 am

I'm not in law school yet but just want to plan ahead as much as possible. Thanks for the help

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ihatelaw
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Re: Clerkships - please help.

Postby ihatelaw » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:39 am

working at a top firm and teaching require two different paths. teaching isnt what it was 30 - 40 years ago when finishing near the top of the class, clerking, etc led to a teaching job.

If you want to work a top firm make sure you spend your summers working in the private sector and clerking may or may not be necessary based on what you mean by top firm (S&C vs Munger). if you just want standard big law top firms you need to finish in the top quarter of your class, do some sort of journal, and go to a t14. obviously, the higher the rank the school, the lower your class rank can be. the lower rank the school, the higher your class rank should be (im not sure what you would need at gtown or cornell to land these jobs).

if you want to teach you need to publish. thats it. clerkships no longer will help you if you cant publish. SLS, CLS, NYU...all have resources on their websites that basically say you can finish outside the top 25%, not clerk, and not be on law review and you'll be okay for a teaching job if you publish. lower ranked schools mean youll need a higher gpa but at t6 you basically just need to finish top 50%, publish articles, and network with professors.

publishing articles is much much harder than it seems. even if grades arent an issue, working at a top firm will almost always be easier than becoming a professor. if you want to teach you're better off getting a PhD or doing a postlaw school fellowship than clerking (in some scenarios).

with that said, high grades and clerkships can only help you no matter what your goal is. if you arent in law school dont plan on doing either. im not saying you wont do either, im just saying dont think about it yet. for now, focus on getting into a t14, if not t6, law school if this is what you want to do. you cant plan beyond that. once you're in law school try to do as best as you can, talk to professors who teach/write about what you're interested in, and network.

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patrickd139
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Re: Clerkships - please help.

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:40 am

dextermorgan wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
jeremybates wrote:1.What international patent/IP courts have clerkships?
2.Does the UN have clerkships in International Criminal Tribunals (ICTY/R, etc.)?
3.Are Court of Appeals clerkships less competitive than SCOTUS? Probablility: applicants vs. accepted.
4.DO experts recommend more than one clerkship, such as DC circuit court and then either SCOTUS or a second federal/COA clerkship, with the goal being teaching at a good or great law school and/or working at a top firm?

Thanks y'all!

Judging from an earlier post of yours, you're not even in law school yet, correct? If so, you have much larger, more pressing matters to attend to. (Like taking the LSAT and getting into a SCOTUS-quality or professor-producing law school for realz.) Just my initial thoughts.

As far as answering your questions: 1) no clue (sorry) 2) again, no clue; 3) both are extremely competitive (one of those "if you have to ask..." kinda things; 4) not sure about these experts you speak of, but I believe a SCOTUS clerkship usually pre-dates a federal circuit judge clerkship. There are tons of threads on here about being a professor, but the gist of it is that, statistically, you should go to HLS, YLS or Chicago, or do extremely well at another top law school.

Other than that you might check out the Eastern District of Texas for the latest patent news. HTH.

I think you have that backwards. Most SCOTUS clerks are CoA clerks first.


That makes sense, but for some reason I thought that Justices drew directly from law schools. Or at least they used to.

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nealric
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Re: Clerkships - please help.

Postby nealric » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:31 pm



That makes sense, but for some reason I thought that Justices drew directly from law schools. Or at least they used to.


They do occasionally hire straight out of law school, but it has become rare. The standard path is to go to a feeder judge first (one who places a lot of SCOTUS clerks).

To the OP: asking about clerking in SCOTUS at this point in your career is akin to a little league player asking if he should consider being in the starting lineup of the Yankees.

wired
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Re: Clerkships - please help.

Postby wired » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:58 pm

nealric wrote:


That makes sense, but for some reason I thought that Justices drew directly from law schools. Or at least they used to.


They do occasionally hire straight out of law school, but it has become rare. The standard path is to go to a feeder judge first (one who places a lot of SCOTUS clerks).

To the OP: asking about clerking in SCOTUS at this point in your career is akin to a little league player asking if he should consider being in the starting lineup of the Yankees.


Hmm... I don't think you will find anyone within the past two decades who has clerked for SCOTUS right out of law school. Appellate clerkships are a de facto requirement, possibly explicit requirement. (Ah yes, I did a Google search: http://indylaw.indiana.edu/career/judicialclerkship.htm. They state that no one is hired directly from law school and appellate clerkship is required.)

wired
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Re: Clerkships - please help.

Postby wired » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:07 pm

jeremybates wrote:1.What international patent/IP courts have clerkships?
2.Does the UN have clerkships in International Criminal Tribunals (ICTY/R, etc.)?
3.Are Court of Appeals clerkships less competitive than SCOTUS? Probablility: applicants vs. accepted.
4.DO experts recommend more than one clerkship, such as DC circuit court and then either SCOTUS or a second federal/COA clerkship, with the goal being teaching at a good or great law school and/or working at a top firm?

Thanks y'all!


I have no clue on 1 or 2.

3. I don't know exact numbers. I imagine that SCOTUS applications might be fewer since the explicit requirements are much higher. (Only Circuit Courts of Appeals clerks will be applying so you are looking at roughly 800 people who could actually apply for it.) That being said, if all 800 clerks applied, then you would have the most intense group of applicants. Compare that to the appellate clerkships that can receive over 1200 applications from a wide array of law students. If you want to go off strict probability, I think the self-selection and requirements would make SCOTUS less competitive, but getting to the point where you can actually apply for it is MUCH harder for SCOTUS.

4. I don't know what "experts" say, but if you want to teach or be guaranteed a spot at a great firm, then get the highest clerkship you possibly can. If you get a SCOTUS spot, many firms will give you a $200,000+ signing bonus. I would recommend focusing more on what you can do now to get to SCOTUS - get the best grade and LSAT possible. If you are ever SCTOUS material, you will be very aware of it.




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