Re: Down the rabbit h0Le - TLS C/O 2020 Thread [New Poll]
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:28 pm
Would love to be in-house at Google.
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I'm someone who had PI aspirations until I realized how bad the salary is. Now I'm torn between my PI aspirations and doing something lit-related in BL.Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:I feel like there's always a high number of people who enter with PI aspirations until the prospects of going through a 3 year degree to make so little with loan repayment programs as a bright side hit them like brick wall.RParadela wrote:Curious, what and where are all of your career goals? I feel like there's a lot of PI folks in this class for whatever reason
Personally I think I want appellate level litigation (I'll settle for a liberal Big Law firm at this point)
Yeah, I'm still toying with PI, though at this point I have to take worst PI prospects in T14 or like 2nd best PI prospects in T14 so I think I have to face the music and go all in on getting BL lit that won't cause me to sell out every conviction I havebrinicolec wrote:I'm someone who had PI aspirations until I realized how bad the salary is. Now I'm torn between my PI aspirations and doing something lit-related in BL.Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash wrote:I feel like there's always a high number of people who enter with PI aspirations until the prospects of going through a 3 year degree to make so little with loan repayment programs as a bright side hit them like brick wall.RParadela wrote:Curious, what and where are all of your career goals? I feel like there's a lot of PI folks in this class for whatever reason
Personally I think I want appellate level litigation (I'll settle for a liberal Big Law firm at this point)
I am wondering this as well. Is it a prestige thing? No judgment if yes.airwrecka wrote:I hope this doesn't come off as sounding condescending or judgmental or anything, but I am legitimately curious about it:
for those of you going into BL, how are you justifying the absolutely terrible work/life balance? I know the $$$ makes it worth it for some, but I don't really understand the point of $$$ if you are completely miserable and glued to your job. and I know some people need to pay of student loans--but why not go to a lower ranked law school on a full ride and then have the opportunity to practice in an area you might actually be interested (or at least somewhere with better hours/work environment) and make a little less? have I made BL worse in my mind than it actually is?
I guess I'm surprised there aren't more people who are interested in something between the $$$ of BL and the poverty of PI.
A) Busy season for my job is pretty similar to bad BL in terms of hours and commitment requirements, so I know what it's like and that I can survive at least some amount of it.airwrecka wrote:I hope this doesn't come off as sounding condescending or judgmental or anything, but I am legitimately curious about it:
for those of you going into BL, how are you justifying the absolutely terrible work/life balance? I know the $$$ makes it worth it for some, but I don't really understand the point of $$$ if you are completely miserable and glued to your job. or maybe I've made BL worse in my mind than it actually is
I guess I'm surprised there aren't more people who are interested in something between the $$$ of BL and the poverty of PI.
Exit opportunities and establishing a good nest eggairwrecka wrote:I hope this doesn't come off as sounding condescending or judgmental or anything, but I am legitimately curious about it:
for those of you going into BL, how are you justifying the absolutely terrible work/life balance? I know the $$$ makes it worth it for some, but I don't really understand the point of $$$ if you are completely miserable and glued to your job. and I know some people need to pay of student loans--but why not go to a lower ranked law school on a full ride and then have the opportunity to practice in an area you might actually be interested (or at least somewhere with better hours/work environment) and make a little less? have I made BL worse in my mind than it actually is?
I guess I'm surprised there aren't more people who are interested in something between the $$$ of BL and the poverty of PI.
Welp. I'm not married (or even dating anyone) and have no kids (unless we count pets as kids, in which case I have one), so I don't have to worry about that aspect of life lol. I'm also not really concerned about the work/life balance. I think BL can also just be a necessary stepping stone to get to some prestigious exit jobs that I'd possibly be interested in so.. I'd rather have it on my resume and deal for a few years and be able to use it to get a job I might want than go somewhere where BL is not likely, miss it, and have difficulty getting jobs I might want because I don't have firm work on my resume. Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.airwrecka wrote:I hope this doesn't come off as sounding condescending or judgmental or anything, but I am legitimately curious about it:
for those of you going into BL, how are you justifying the absolutely terrible work/life balance? I know the $$$ makes it worth it for some, but I don't really understand the point of $$$ if you are completely miserable and glued to your job. and I know some people need to pay of student loans--but why not go to a lower ranked law school on a full ride and then have the opportunity to practice in an area you might actually be interested (or at least somewhere with better hours/work environment) and make a little less? have I made BL worse in my mind than it actually is?
I guess I'm surprised there aren't more people who are interested in something between the $$$ of BL and the poverty of PI.
If I ended up doing BL, it'd be for the following reasons:airwrecka wrote:I hope this doesn't come off as sounding condescending or judgmental or anything, but I am legitimately curious about it:
for those of you going into BL, how are you justifying the absolutely terrible work/life balance? I know the $$$ makes it worth it for some, but I don't really understand the point of $$$ if you are completely miserable and glued to your job. and I know some people need to pay of student loans--but why not go to a lower ranked law school on a full ride and then have the opportunity to practice in an area you might actually be interested (or at least somewhere with better hours/work environment) and make a little less? have I made BL worse in my mind than it actually is?
I guess I'm surprised there aren't more people who are interested in something between the $$$ of BL and the poverty of PI.
From what I've seen, if you avoid the sweatshop offices and particularly if you can avoid NYC, your hours aren't that terrible (60ish hours a week on average). I'm perfectly fine with working 60 hours a week on something that I find substantive (so lit and not transactional bs) for which I'm being paid one of the highest starting salaries possible. Plus, I have the personality and goals to do perfectly fine in BigLaw. I extremely non-commital in relationships which means I rarely have a long-term girlfriend and I have 0 plans to ever get married. Being single, young (I'll be 24 as a 1st year associate) and hungry is as good of a recipe to deal with BigLaw IMO.airwrecka wrote:I hope this doesn't come off as sounding condescending or judgmental or anything, but I am legitimately curious about it:
for those of you going into BL, how are you justifying the absolutely terrible work/life balance? I know the $$$ makes it worth it for some, but I don't really understand the point of $$$ if you are completely miserable and glued to your job. and I know some people need to pay of student loans--but why not go to a lower ranked law school on a full ride and then have the opportunity to practice in an area you might actually be interested (or at least somewhere with better hours/work environment) and make a little less? have I made BL worse in my mind than it actually is?
I guess I'm surprised there aren't more people who are interested in something between the $$$ of BL and the poverty of PI.
*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
Yeah I definitely agree! I'd LOVE to be able to be a black female partner, although I know it's not likely.chandhi wrote:*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
We need so many more WoC in all areas of law. Representation matters.
I love this bri! I agree that representation is SUPER important, and I would love love love to hear that you become partner someday!brinicolec wrote:Yeah I definitely agree! I'd LOVE to be able to be a black female partner, although I know it's not likely.chandhi wrote:*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
We need so many more WoC in all areas of law. Representation matters.
My dad's one of few black generals in the Air Force and I always love hearing/seeing young black men who are like "Wow I've never met a black general before!" or like the pictures of little black girls next to black Disney princesses or whatever else. Or how Cam Newton was reppin for black QBs (he's fallen into the sunken place since then but uhhhhhh lol) & little black boys were wearing "Super Cam" stuff and everything.
Black kids joy >>>>>>
Lol
Seriously, snaps to this!! We need more WoC professionals! I really wish I had someone relatable to guide me through the whole law process.airwrecka wrote:Thank you all for responding so thoroughly! You've almost convinced me to consider BL myself
I love this bri! I agree that representation is SUPER important, and I would love love love to hear that you become partner someday!brinicolec wrote:Yeah I definitely agree! I'd LOVE to be able to be a black female partner, although I know it's not likely.chandhi wrote:*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
We need so many more WoC in all areas of law. Representation matters.
My dad's one of few black generals in the Air Force and I always love hearing/seeing young black men who are like "Wow I've never met a black general before!" or like the pictures of little black girls next to black Disney princesses or whatever else. Or how Cam Newton was reppin for black QBs (he's fallen into the sunken place since then but uhhhhhh lol) & little black boys were wearing "Super Cam" stuff and everything.
Black kids joy >>>>>>
Lol
Aw, well thanks! Hopefully it's possible! I'm having a phone convo with a black (male) partner on Friday and trying to get ALL the teaairwrecka wrote:Thank you all for responding so thoroughly! You've almost convinced me to consider BL myself
I love this bri! I agree that representation is SUPER important, and I would love love love to hear that you become partner someday!brinicolec wrote:Yeah I definitely agree! I'd LOVE to be able to be a black female partner, although I know it's not likely.chandhi wrote:*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
We need so many more WoC in all areas of law. Representation matters.
My dad's one of few black generals in the Air Force and I always love hearing/seeing young black men who are like "Wow I've never met a black general before!" or like the pictures of little black girls next to black Disney princesses or whatever else. Or how Cam Newton was reppin for black QBs (he's fallen into the sunken place since then but uhhhhhh lol) & little black boys were wearing "Super Cam" stuff and everything.
Black kids joy >>>>>>
Lol
Definitely. I look forward to being in my career and being able to offer time as a mentor or something to other minority students (especially women) at my alma mater, or even just in general. Like at Michigan they had a current partner at a firm talking at a breakout session about private sector work and he was black and I was just thinking, "Wow, I'd love to pick his brain about how his experience has been as a black man."Stylnator wrote:Seriously, snaps to this!! We need more WoC professionals! I really wish I had someone relatable to guide me through the whole law process.airwrecka wrote:Thank you all for responding so thoroughly! You've almost convinced me to consider BL myself
I love this bri! I agree that representation is SUPER important, and I would love love love to hear that you become partner someday!brinicolec wrote:Yeah I definitely agree! I'd LOVE to be able to be a black female partner, although I know it's not likely.chandhi wrote:*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
We need so many more WoC in all areas of law. Representation matters.
My dad's one of few black generals in the Air Force and I always love hearing/seeing young black men who are like "Wow I've never met a black general before!" or like the pictures of little black girls next to black Disney princesses or whatever else. Or how Cam Newton was reppin for black QBs (he's fallen into the sunken place since then but uhhhhhh lol) & little black boys were wearing "Super Cam" stuff and everything.
Black kids joy >>>>>>
Lol
All of the above. While I would like to go into BL (knowing that it's unlikely/hard/likely will hate it) I'm doing it because 1) representation 2) don't have a family of lawyers so there would be extreme judgment if I went into PI/add in "we didn't immigrate here for you to get all this debt and work for x amount" 3) could open doors later that I'd love to get into career-wise 4) a lot of the BL work seems interesting to me on an intellectual level 5) knowing my personality, PI work would emotionally drain me because I would obsess over my work/I'd take it home and take losing for my clients very personallybrinicolec wrote:Definitely. I look forward to being in my career and being able to offer time as a mentor or something to other minority students (especially women) at my alma mater, or even just in general. Like at Michigan they had a current partner at a firm talking at a breakout session about private sector work and he was black and I was just thinking, "Wow, I'd love to pick his brain about how his experience has been as a black man."Stylnator wrote:Seriously, snaps to this!! We need more WoC professionals! I really wish I had someone relatable to guide me through the whole law process.airwrecka wrote:Thank you all for responding so thoroughly! You've almost convinced me to consider BL myself
I love this bri! I agree that representation is SUPER important, and I would love love love to hear that you become partner someday!brinicolec wrote:Yeah I definitely agree! I'd LOVE to be able to be a black female partner, although I know it's not likely.chandhi wrote:*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
We need so many more WoC in all areas of law. Representation matters.
My dad's one of few black generals in the Air Force and I always love hearing/seeing young black men who are like "Wow I've never met a black general before!" or like the pictures of little black girls next to black Disney princesses or whatever else. Or how Cam Newton was reppin for black QBs (he's fallen into the sunken place since then but uhhhhhh lol) & little black boys were wearing "Super Cam" stuff and everything.
Black kids joy >>>>>>
Lol
I've thought about that a lot as well. I have a serious interest in capital punishment, which is quite literally life or death, and I know that some clients you can't win the case for will even request that you attend their execution and I just don't know if I'd ever be able to do that. But I'm torn because it is something I'm incredibly passionate about and want to try to help make a difference in.renc56 wrote:All of the above. While I would like to go into BL (knowing that it's unlikely/hard/likely will hate it) I'm doing it because 1) representation 2) don't have a family of lawyers so there would be extreme judgment if I went into PI/add in "we didn't immigrate here for you to get all this debt and work for x amount" 3) could open doors later that I'd love to get into career-wise 4) a lot of the BL work seems interesting to me on an intellectual level 5) knowing my personality, PI work would emotionally drain me because I would obsess over my work/I'd take it home and take losing for my clients very personallybrinicolec wrote:Definitely. I look forward to being in my career and being able to offer time as a mentor or something to other minority students (especially women) at my alma mater, or even just in general. Like at Michigan they had a current partner at a firm talking at a breakout session about private sector work and he was black and I was just thinking, "Wow, I'd love to pick his brain about how his experience has been as a black man."Stylnator wrote:Seriously, snaps to this!! We need more WoC professionals! I really wish I had someone relatable to guide me through the whole law process.airwrecka wrote:Thank you all for responding so thoroughly! You've almost convinced me to consider BL myself
I love this bri! I agree that representation is SUPER important, and I would love love love to hear that you become partner someday!brinicolec wrote:Yeah I definitely agree! I'd LOVE to be able to be a black female partner, although I know it's not likely.chandhi wrote:*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
We need so many more WoC in all areas of law. Representation matters.
My dad's one of few black generals in the Air Force and I always love hearing/seeing young black men who are like "Wow I've never met a black general before!" or like the pictures of little black girls next to black Disney princesses or whatever else. Or how Cam Newton was reppin for black QBs (he's fallen into the sunken place since then but uhhhhhh lol) & little black boys were wearing "Super Cam" stuff and everything.
Black kids joy >>>>>>
Lol
Edit: I'm tired and so double negatives
I love this bri! I agree that representation is SUPER important, and I would love love love to hear that you become partner someday! [/quote]brinicolec wrote:Yeah I definitely agree! I'd LOVE to be able to be a black female partner, although I know it's not likely.chandhi wrote:*endless hand clapping emojis*brinicolec wrote: Also, being a minority (AA), I'm really into the idea of representation and think that 1) being being one of few minorities at any given T13, especially Michigan since they don't have affirmative action anymore, and 2) possibly being one of few minorities at a big law firm is important, especially if I DO end up having kids someday (who knows lol). Growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer but I don't have any family who practices law and I don't really know any minorities who practice law either and I think having that representation helps.
We need so many more WoC in all areas of law. Representation matters.
My dad's one of few black generals in the Air Force and I always love hearing/seeing young black men who are like "Wow I've never met a black general before!" or like the pictures of little black girls next to black Disney princesses or whatever else. Or how Cam Newton was reppin for black QBs (he's fallen into the sunken place since then but uhhhhhh lol) & little black boys were wearing "Super Cam" stuff and everything.
Black kids joy >>>>>>
Lol
1. most high paying careers that are attainable with education and without connections have bad work/life balance 2. I'm used to the biglaw type of hours 3. debt 4. retirement 5. legit interest in M&A work (yes, I'm the weirdo intentionally going into transactional. it was my goal from the start) 6. exit to in house option 7. small chance at making even more money as a partner 8. justify the hard work 9. learn skills 10. normalized track via OCI 11. preftige 12. my cold and icy heart would be a disservice to people that need help from an emotional human beingairwrecka wrote:I hope this doesn't come off as sounding condescending or judgmental or anything, but I am legitimately curious about it:
for those of you going into BL, how are you justifying the absolutely terrible work/life balance? I know the $$$ makes it worth it for some, but I don't really understand the point of $$$ if you are completely miserable and glued to your job. and I know some people need to pay of student loans--but why not go to a lower ranked law school on a full ride and then have the opportunity to practice in an area you might actually be interested (or at least somewhere with better hours/work environment) and make a little less? have I made BL worse in my mind than it actually is?
I guess I'm surprised there aren't more people who are interested in something between the $$$ of BL and the poverty of PI.
I'm already cynical so that's not a concern of mine I think the major issue is the $$$ thing.renc56 wrote:
I have nonprofit work experience and friends who have worked in govt (legal and non-legal for both) and just.. like it sounds bettering the world but it usually means low pay, long hours, lots of stress, disorganization at an institutional level.. For me, going into PI is more likely to make me lose my passion for social justice and make me more cynical. But some people handle this differently and I applaud them for going into PI if it is their passion/have the resources to make this possible.
There's cynicism and then there's nonprofit burn outbrinicolec wrote:I'm already cynical so that's not a concern of mine I think the major issue is the $$$ thing.renc56 wrote:
I have nonprofit work experience and friends who have worked in govt (legal and non-legal for both) and just.. like it sounds bettering the world but it usually means low pay, long hours, lots of stress, disorganization at an institutional level.. For me, going into PI is more likely to make me lose my passion for social justice and make me more cynical. But some people handle this differently and I applaud them for going into PI if it is their passion/have the resources to make this possible.
brinicolec wrote:I'm already cynical so that's not a concern of mine I think the major issue is the $$$ thing.renc56 wrote:
I have nonprofit work experience and friends who have worked in govt (legal and non-legal for both) and just.. like it sounds bettering the world but it usually means low pay, long hours, lots of stress, disorganization at an institutional level.. For me, going into PI is more likely to make me lose my passion for social justice and make me more cynical. But some people handle this differently and I applaud them for going into PI if it is their passion/have the resources to make this possible.