2L and Back Again Forum

[ChervonaKatya]

I like Torts, our visiting professor is a hero and legitimately one of the most entertaining teachers I've ever had.

Is this professor Sherman Clark, by chance?

Bingo.

Michigan misses him. I love my Torts professor, but kind of envy your Clark experience. Enjoy!

[cdotson2]

if you think cold calling and speaking in front of your peers is the worst thing ever why are you becoming a lawyer

if you haven't noticed these are directly related to the skill set you are expected to utilize daily when practicing and if not daily, certainly in court

I agree it might be related for litigation, but the precise skill of cold calling is probably only related to a small part of one type of legal job, appellate trial work. The majority of what a lawyer does is read and write sitting at a desk, and if you are going into biglaw that is all you will do for the first few years.

[sfoglia]

if you think cold calling and speaking in front of your peers is the worst thing ever why are you becoming a lawyer

if you haven't noticed these are directly related to the skill set you are expected to utilize daily when practicing and if not daily, certainly in court

I agree it might be related for litigation, but the precise skill of cold calling is probably only related to a small part of one type of legal job, appellate trial work. The majority of what a lawyer does is read and write sitting at a desk, and if you are going into biglaw that is all you will do for the first few years.

Agree. I also think that just because you currently find it uncomfortable to be cold-called doesn't mean you won't acclimate with practice.

The reason I hate cold calls is not because I am uncomfortable speaking, but because it is uncomfortable to listen to the heavy silences and page flipping my classmates do as they struggle to find the answer for which the professor is looking. I think that contributes to the discomfort, probably, for someone who is already reluctant to speak up (worrying they'll be equally unsuccessful at being "impressively" on-the-spot when called upon).

[sfoglia]

We have a gunner that made an outline for our 3-week "Intro to Law School" class exam. An exam that is pass/fail (everyone passes), and does not test any substantive area of law. Now, quite a few people made outlines for this exam, and I won't fault them for that since you can at least say that it was valuable to get practice in making an outline. No, the issue with the gunner is that his outline consisted solely of Scalia quotations pulled from any case we read that included a Scalia opinion. The kid is from Canada for christ's sake.

This is THE BEST. He should be an honorary attendee of my Leg Reg class, which always includes at least one WWJ(S)D? ("What would Justice Scalia do?") question from my prof.

[ugg]

We have a gunner that made an outline for our 3-week "Intro to Law School" class exam. An exam that is pass/fail (everyone passes), and does not test any substantive area of law. Now, quite a few people made outlines for this exam, and I won't fault them for that since you can at least say that it was valuable to get practice in making an outline. No, the issue with the gunner is that his outline consisted solely of Scalia quotations pulled from any case we read that included a Scalia opinion. The kid is from Canada for christ's sake.

This is also the same kid who complained to a professor for not having a Canadian case in the syllabus because we had a French case and an Australian case. He then took the opportunity to suggest a case to talk about, and I guess the professor conceded to just shut him up. Unfortunately this had the opposite effect, as he then spent 20 minutes of the next day's class monologuing about the case and it's significance and relevance to the cases we were studying (at the end of the day the only relevant thing was that it was Canada's equivalent to the US case we were studying, pretty much point for point). AKA, useless. And I'm not exaggerating the time, it was actually at least 20 minutes.

Oh, and apparently he's already working on a note topic of how all tort law is wrong and would be better conceived of as property law. We spent about 10 minutes in one of our tort classes with him talking about his position.

Fortunately he's pretty much the only gunner in our section, and law school is going great enough that not even he can ruin it. Doesn't stop me from muttering, "Ah goddamnit" whenever I hear his voice.

There's like a 87% chance he's a TLSer hahaha

[davey jones]

[Bearlyalive]

There's like a 87% chance he's a TLSer hahaha

Then let him feel the scorn, and choose to cast off the shrouds of darkness. We wait in the light, with forgiveness and cookies.

[thetravelinglawyer]

In the continuing saga of our gunner, at Bar Review this weekend, he went around asking girls which one of them had been raped. This came up because this week we are studying sexual assault in Crim Law, and we were discussing how awful it was going to be to discuss it in class, and he piped up and said "So statistically one in four girls has been raped, and there's four girls here, so which one of you is it?" He was laughing and kept pushing the point. The worst part is that, as it happens, one of the girls in our section HAS been raped (he didn't know that, but she had confided in some of us so we did know), and she was around while this was happening. Several people told him that was not funny and not appropriate to joke about, and he just kept at it, laughing and asking who it was. This guy is a real peach.

[ugg]

okay, thinking of doing a new title now that we're somewhat into the semester. any suggestions?

[ugg]

In the continuing saga of our gunner, at Bar Review this weekend, he went around asking girls which one of them had been raped. This came up because this week we are studying sexual assault in Crim Law, and we were discussing how awful it was going to be to discuss it in class, and he piped up and said "So statistically one in four girls has been raped, and there's four girls here, so which one of you is it?" He was laughing and kept pushing the point. The worst part is that, as it happens, one of the girls in our section HAS been raped (he didn't know that, but she had confided in some of us so we did know), and she was around while this was happening. Several people told him that was not funny and not appropriate to joke about, and he just kept at it, laughing and asking who it was. This guy is a real peach.

oh nice

[Smallville]

In the continuing saga of our gunner, at Bar Review this weekend, he went around asking girls which one of them had been raped. This came up because this week we are studying sexual assault in Crim Law, and we were discussing how awful it was going to be to discuss it in class, and he piped up and said "So statistically one in four girls has been raped, and there's four girls here, so which one of you is it?" He was laughing and kept pushing the point. The worst part is that, as it happens, one of the girls in our section HAS been raped (he didn't know that, but she had confided in some of us so we did know), and she was around while this was happening. Several people told him that was not funny and not appropriate to joke about, and he just kept at it, laughing and asking who it was. This guy is a real peach.

yeah like you (or someone) should seriously get the school to tell him to stop talking to just leave school

[EnderWiggin]

okay, thinking of doing a new title now that we're somewhat into the semester. any suggestions?

1 eLegy: Requiem for a Dream

[monceau]

ok so i've heard a lot of bluster from various people in my section that they've already started outlining, but today i actually saw someone's outline on their computer for the first time and it freaked me out. we're like only a month in?

[Smallville]

ok so i've heard a lot of bluster from various people in my section that they've already started outlining, but today i actually saw someone's outline on their computer for the first time and it freaked me out. we're like only a month in?

I know someone who went in on their contracts outline and has 42 pages... only has a few for Torts and idt he started civ pro yet

[thetravelinglawyer]

ok so i've heard a lot of bluster from various people in my section that they've already started outlining, but today i actually saw someone's outline on their computer for the first time and it freaked me out. we're like only a month in?

We're six weeks in and I started outlining for a couple of them the weekend before last.. I actually wish I'd started sooner, because now I'm getting better at taking less notes in class and organizing concepts. I think it's actually helped me start absorbing the material better on the first pass. My first few weeks of notes were chaos, way too much unnecessary junk, I needed to take the time to step back and assess. But I don't think it's a "if you're not doing this you're already behind" kind of thing. Everyone's different, some people have to start early but don't feel stressed if that's not you.

[ugg]

ok so i've heard a lot of bluster from various people in my section that they've already started outlining, but today i actually saw someone's outline on their computer for the first time and it freaked me out. we're like only a month in?

I know someone who went in on their contracts outline and has 42 pages... only has a few for Torts and idt he started civ pro yet

uhhh that seems excessive

[Smallville]

ok so i've heard a lot of bluster from various people in my section that they've already started outlining, but today i actually saw someone's outline on their computer for the first time and it freaked me out. we're like only a month in?

I know someone who went in on their contracts outline and has 42 pages... only has a few for Torts and idt he started civ pro yet

uhhh that seems excessive

I agree, though some other 3Ls and peeps have said some people will make pretty big outlines like 100+ pages and then over time revamp them and shorten them 1 or 2 times to something more realistic for an exam

[Hikikomorist]

I don't recommend making your own outlines unless you have a crotchety professor who only allows you to bring your own materials into the exam room.

[Smallville]

I don't recommend making your own outlines unless you have a crotchety professor who only allows you to bring your own materials into the exam room.

well the thought process is you likely don't have much time to refer to your outline so the main point of making it is to study the material

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't recommend making your own outlines unless you have a crotchety professor who only allows you to bring your own materials into the exam room.

I find other people's outlines can be helpful as a reference but I can't learn anything using only other people's outlines. I just reread them but don't absorb the material. But I mostly studied from class notes anyway.

(Point: different strokes etc. people need to do what works for them.)

[Hikikomorist]

I don't recommend making your own outlines unless you have a crotchety professor who only allows you to bring your own materials into the exam room.

I find other people's outlines can be helpful as a reference but I can't learn anything using only other people's outlines. I just reread them but don't absorb the material. But I mostly studied from class notes anyway.

(Point: different strokes etc. people need to do what works doe them.)

I figure most people don't really know what works best for them, so the best move is to start with less time-intensive approaches and adjust from there. Other people might know their study habits better than I knew mine entering law school, but I figured those people would wisely ignore my advice.

[schocolate]

1 eLegy: Requiem for a Dream

[dodint]

I can't believe at only 7 weeks I openly hate law school. There is basically no redemptive quality to it as far as I can see. Reminds me of boot camp, everything about it sucks but I have a feeling in a few years I'll look back on it fondly.

It's not even the material, but the inconsistent direction and grading. Hugely frustrating when the Prof, Adjunct, and the class materials all conflict.

[lymenheimer]

I love law school

[cdotson2]

I love law school

same, but I havn't got any grade back yet, so I could see that potentially changing the experience.