Stanford Law School Class of 2018

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2018)

Where are you in the decision making process?

Committed to Stanford!
11
50%
99% sure I'll be at Stanford, 1% room for changing my mind
2
9%
Still waiting on financial aid
0
No votes
Still weighing my other options
1
5%
Definitely attending another school
8
36%
 
Total votes: 22

Fred Norris
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:18 pm

Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby Fred Norris » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:50 pm

LetsGoMets wrote:
I don't care what you do with your life. I'm just trying to tell you you're going into law school with some very inaccurate perceptions and expectations, and I think it will hurt you to continually ignore the advice you get back when you ask questions like this one.


Just so I understand - why are you an authority on this? I do appreciate the concern, of course. That's very kind of you. I don't appreciate the outburst.

A good number of SLS grads clerk. Why is it so outrageous to ask where they clerk and the impact of the judges for whom they clerk?

You took the time to offer such advice rather fervently. Unlike you, I will be fully open-minded. If this wasn't just an outburst, then I can only imagine you'd be more than happy to go into detail on the above?

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psychmusic
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby psychmusic » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:01 pm

.
Last edited by psychmusic on Fri May 01, 2015 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

banks
Posts: 17
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby banks » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:05 pm

Fred Norris wrote:Got it. I really like that. I do enjoy actually being in class and learning - as I imagine many students a S do. The fact that I can really load up on courses is great.

The faculty: student ratio is also fantastic. I definitely feel that about clerkships? that's the logic right? More opportunity to get close with professors = better clerkship recommendations = better clerkships?

I believe Stanford bests HLS by more than 10%. Any idea of the "quality" of clerkships? I won't knock a North Dakota Clerkship, I am sure that would actually be one of the coolest things out there. But in terms of clerking for Courts that are determining fundamental issues likely to impact the country as a whole in huge ways.

Would you say S is on par with H in terms of my VERY SUBJECTIVE definition of quality.

Another thing: cost. I look at the cost of housing and I get shivers already. I've lived in some of the most expensive cities in the world, and they don't even come close. Thoughts?


Yes, the general notion is that the more you get to know professors, the better recs for clerkships - but also the more engaging and interesting your experience is.

I don't know much about clerkship "quality" - that seems to be a question the rest of TLS could answer better than me.

As far as cost, yes - it costs a lot. But, we have subsidized housing for students with some of the best student housing in the country (Munger). I live off campus and absolutely love it. It's expensive, but I get what I pay for. I have a nice place, great location, etc. I don't live in Palo Alto, so maybe that's why I get a little bit more for my buck, but you can find nice stuff in PA as well.

Fred Norris
Posts: 192
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby Fred Norris » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:10 pm

psychmusic wrote:
I think that you should take this to the "Choosing a Law School" forum, particularly if you're terribly sensitive to advice from other accepted students who, you seem to suggest, lack the proper authority to speak to the questions your asking.


Thanks. I was responding to Banks - resident SLSer (or at least one) who has offered invaluable advice here.

Kimikho
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby Kimikho » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:11 pm

Do take this stuff to the sls taking questions thread. One of the reasons sls doesn't have a strong TLS presence is because of the lack of a consistent taking questions thread.

E: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=237451
Last edited by Kimikho on Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cc78
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby cc78 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:07 pm

Ya know when it was just psych, mets, jem, LC, strugglebus, and me in here we were much nicer to each other...

C'mon...let's keep the peace.

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LetsGoMets
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby LetsGoMets » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:39 pm

Fred Norris wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
I don't care what you do with your life. I'm just trying to tell you you're going into law school with some very inaccurate perceptions and expectations, and I think it will hurt you to continually ignore the advice you get back when you ask questions like this one.


Just so I understand - why are you an authority on this? I do appreciate the concern, of course. That's very kind of you. I don't appreciate the outburst.

A good number of SLS grads clerk. Why is it so outrageous to ask where they clerk and the impact of the judges for whom they clerk?

You took the time to offer such advice rather fervently. Unlike you, I will be fully open-minded. If this wasn't just an outburst, then I can only imagine you'd be more than happy to go into detail on the above?


I'm a 0L as well and don't claim to be an authority, but I've spent quite a bit of a time reading through the archives of the Admissions, Ask a Law Student and Choosing a Law School forums to answer my own questions, and there are very clear consensuses on the types of issues that you've been bringing up. If I'm not mistaken you've already been told as much in the multiple threads you've started, so I'm certainly not the first.

As for clerkships, I was just trying to point out that common sense says that choosing a school based on the possibility of clerking for a particular judge based on their "impact", and the even more remote possibility that you as a clerk could play a role in some major policy change in the country, is a ridiculous proposition to be considering at this stage. I'll stop there because, as you correctly point out, I'm not an authority. I suggest you try the clerkships forum, if you haven't already.

banks
Posts: 17
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby banks » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:42 pm

Kimikho wrote:Do take this stuff to the sls taking questions thread. One of the reasons sls doesn't have a strong TLS presence is because of the lack of a consistent taking questions thread.

E: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=237451


My bad - I'll respond to q's there now.


* I'll still respond here, too - I thought Kimhko was a moderator or something. But, don't want to clog up this celebratory thread.

Fred Norris
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:18 pm

Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby Fred Norris » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:29 pm

What are the main things you guys are doing to make sure/investigate that SLS is the right fit? I'm planning to go out there a month or so prior to ASW to get a feel - worried ASW is too late to give me time to reflect. Not sure if this pre-visit is overboard.

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LoganCouture
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby LoganCouture » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:46 pm

Fred Norris wrote:What are the main things you guys are doing to make sure/investigate that SLS is the right fit? I'm planning to go out there a month or so prior to ASW to get a feel - worried ASW is too late to give me time to reflect. Not sure if this pre-visit is overboard.


I don't know how to, really. Luckily I already know that SLS would be a great fit for me but I kind of doubt that a few days at H/Y is going to give me the same knowledge. I have been talking to a lot of alums/current students about their decision making process and what they looked for in a school, but really if you are in the position to choose S you probably have a lot of other excellent options and can't really go wrong.

I would imagine the following things could go into determining SLS' fit for someone: need aid at SLS vs. scholarships at other schools, west coast vs. elsewhere, year-round sun vs. seasons, interest in working in tech/startups/IP, small vs. large school, living in Palo Alto vs. an actual city, SO/family considerations, SLS LRAP vs. HLS LIPP/YLS COAP.

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koalacity
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby koalacity » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:23 pm

PSA: if you come here, don't join a journal.

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everything_bagel
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby everything_bagel » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:48 pm

koalacity wrote:PSA: if you come here, don't join a journal.


Say more?

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rpupkin
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby rpupkin » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:55 pm

Fred Norris wrote:I was quite clear my goal is to get a clerkship at a court making major decisions. It's not prestige.

What do you mean by "major decisions"?

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goldenflash19
Posts: 477
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby goldenflash19 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:21 am

koalacity wrote:PSA: if you come here, don't join a journal.


+1. Just don't do it. Not worth it at all.

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ThePinkRanger
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:07 pm

Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby ThePinkRanger » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:35 pm

goldenflash19 wrote:
koalacity wrote:PSA: if you come here, don't join a journal.


+1. Just don't do it. Not worth it at all.

This is interesting. Can someone elaborate on why? I'm imagining this as an opportunity cost issue.
Are there other nonmandated activities that serve SLS grads better somehow? Or would you say the quality of the journals at SLS isn't worth the time? Or that writing for a journal, generally at any school, is just not worth it? Curious as to the reasoning here.

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WashingtonIrving
Posts: 15
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby WashingtonIrving » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:12 am

ThePinkRanger wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:
koalacity wrote:PSA: if you come here, don't join a journal.


+1. Just don't do it. Not worth it at all.

This is interesting. Can someone elaborate on why? I'm imagining this as an opportunity cost issue.


Journals (especially the secondary journals you can work on as a 1L) are just kind of stupid. You're editing/Bluebooking articles that aren't good enough for primary law journals or peer-reviewed journals in another field. And the timing often sucks (you'll get hit with deadlines which mess with LRW/FedLit or finals).

ThePinkRanger wrote:Are there other nonmandated activities that serve SLS grads better somehow?


Literally anything else. Sleep. Porn. Hitting balls on the driving range. Reading the dictionary. Anything.

ThePinkRanger wrote:Or would you say the quality of the journals at SLS isn't worth the time?


I don't imagine that secondary journals are any better anywhere else.

ThePinkRanger wrote:Or that writing for a journal, generally at any school, is just not worth it? Curious as to the reasoning here.


You don't write, you edit submissions. And it isn't worth it.

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ThePinkRanger
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby ThePinkRanger » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:09 am

koalacity wrote:PSA: if you come here, don't join a journal.


Inside the Law School Scam agrees: http://bit.ly/1M3awvu

US News doesn't: http://bit.ly/1iIhaYo

I'm glad you two brought this up, because it was always something I assumed was worthwhile. Perhaps it's time to "read the dictionary" instead. TBD!

Edit: If you're interested in this topic, it's worth reading the David Hoffman article that Inside the Law School Scam cites and scrolling through the comments on that post.

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LetsGoMets
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby LetsGoMets » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:44 pm

Just to clarify here, I think the current students are talking about secondary journals, not Stanford Law Review, which I'm pretty sure is still a great idea to get on if you can, as it is at any school.

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ThePinkRanger
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby ThePinkRanger » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:14 pm

LetsGoMets wrote:Just to clarify here, I think the current students are talking about secondary journals, not Stanford Law Review, which I'm pretty sure is still a great idea to get on if you can, as it is at any school.

Maybe they do mean that! Is that what you mean, current students? I think if you take the criticisms seriously (which encompass more than a signal to prospective employers--it's also what you learn by working with a primarily student-run publication unit) then it would also apply to Law Reviews, which are also primarily student run. Stanford's, in particular, "is operated entirely by Stanford Law School students and is fully independent of faculty and administration review or supervision."

The Hoffman article says:

If you polled a large and representative sample of law faculty and administrators, you’d observe the following rough consensus about the “flagship” law reviews and secondary journals at the typical law school.

Student editors do a mediocre job of picking good articles, of training each other in writing, and in producing notes and comments which matter to the world;
This isn’t the students’ fault: law faculty play almost no role in journal operations at most schools;
Law journal membership is useful primarily as a resume & signaling credential;
Anecdotal evidence suggests that the worth of the credential is in decline; and consequently,
Most members of most journals are demoralized by the experience.

I'm not saying I'm now against working to get on a law review--it's the first organization I'll look into joining. But until today I never heard that it was not a great idea. It might be worth considering whether any other opportunities can send an equally strong or stronger signal and be more worthwhile than both the secondary journals and the primary law reviews.

Fred Norris
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby Fred Norris » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:51 pm

When a final schedule for ASW is created, will that be sent to us?

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goldenflash19
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby goldenflash19 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:39 am

+1 to everything WashingtonIrving said.

LetsGoMets wrote:Just to clarify here, I think the current students are talking about secondary journals, not Stanford Law Review, which I'm pretty sure is still a great idea to get on if you can, as it is at any school.


And yup- we're just talking about secondary journals. They are just a genuine pain in the butt. The worst thing is deadlines are made without any respect to the 1L schedule (this is especially frustrating given that journals aren't published for months anyway so I don't see what difference a few weeks would make). A lot of journals have deadlines at/near the same time as LRW/Fed Lit briefs or ridiculously close to finals. My journal gave us about a week to get our splits done, and a lot of us hurried just to get the splits done. The splits are time consuming and menial- cite checking, source pulling, etc.- and ultimately affects your grades in no way. Preparation for splits consists of a short powerpoint given by your journal.

Journals could give you a talking point in an interview or help show interest in a particular field. Looking back, I 100% would not have done a journal, though. You could honestly learn everything you needed to prepare yourself for writing on for law review by reading the bluebook and writing a paper in a seminar class instead of doing a journal.

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radio1nowhere
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby radio1nowhere » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:31 pm

CHECKING IN :mrgreen:

I also have a question for you lovely people. I'm trying to do some H vs. S research, and I keep seeing in past TLS "H vs. S" threads that Stanford's no-grade policy is something to compare with Harvard's more competitive environment. Some quick google searches, however, seem to indicate that H and S use essentially the same grading system.

Harvard: Honors, Pass, Low Pass, Fail
Stanford: Honors, Pass, Restricted Credit, Fail

Where, then, is the difference in grades? Am I missing something? Has the system changed?

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littlepuff
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby littlepuff » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:46 pm

.
Last edited by littlepuff on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

royale2540
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby royale2540 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:17 pm

Checking in as well! Does anyone have some insight into the deferral policy? I know that the website states that SLS allows a limited number of deferrals each year. However, is it particularly restrictive/difficult to get?

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radio1nowhere
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Re: Stanford Law School Class of 2018

Postby radio1nowhere » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:17 pm

littlepuff wrote:Stanford changed its grading system to the current one in the fall of 2008, a year before Harvard's reform. I can see at least one "H vs S" thread that was posted in the fall of 2008, at which point only Stanford had adopted the four-level grading system.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, almost no student at Stanford receives an RC, while some classes at Harvard do give out LPs to a small number of students. But I think Harvard is also moving toward giving increasingly fewer LPs.

But all in all, I think that the grading systems of the two schools have little difference.

(Edited to add some more comments)


Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for the response!




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