Michigan Law c/o 2018

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2018)

Which ASW will you attend?

March 19-21
24
34%
April 9-11
29
41%
Neither
17
24%
 
Total votes: 70

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Kinky John
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby Kinky John » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:55 am

TheDogWhisperer wrote:Quickie burger sucks IMO and I have a sublet available for the summer until after finals right across form the law school CHEAP. PM me if interested


Voted best in AA when I was an undergrad but I guess things have changed - dang whippersnappers

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Winston1984
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby Winston1984 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:58 am

sneezus wrote:anyone planning on living in the lawyers quad thing? or opting for off campus?

If I end up at Michigan, I will live at the Lawyers Club. I know it is more expensive, but I guess I'm afraid I would feel left out if I didn't? Also, it seems super convenient. Wouldn't live there 2L and 3L though.

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pylon
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby pylon » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:28 am

I think I'm in the same boat as Winston. I would live there as a 1L because of the convenience, and then figure out real housing for 2L and 3L.

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NutellaDipity
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby NutellaDipity » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:54 am

pylon wrote:I think I'm in the same boat as Winston. I would live there as a 1L because of the convenience, and then figure out real housing for 2L and 3L.


Same here, close to the school, the business gym, and the social room across from dining hall is magnificent.

qwertyTLS
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby qwertyTLS » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:24 am

read somewhere (might have been last years thread) that michigan was making an effort to lower class sizes.

aba
2015: ??
2014: 318
2013: 315
2012: 344
2011: 359

has anyone heard mention of this? i hope they lower it to 300 or so.

kingpin101
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby kingpin101 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:50 am

53.8% for BL+FC. Not great and lowest in t14 so far by 9%.

liz9332
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby liz9332 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:37 am

Hey, where are people thinking about living in the fall?

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sneezus
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby sneezus » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:54 am

wow. those BL/FC numbers are pretty ugly. i had just decided to deposit at Michigan this week. this throws it all back up in the air for me, to be honest.

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taptaptop
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby taptaptop » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:58 am

kingpin101 wrote:53.8% for BL+FC. Not great and lowest in t14 so far by 9%.



Yeah.. I am really wondering what happened to Michigan. The whole shitty Michigan economy is still influencing the employment stats THAT much?

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taptaptop
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby taptaptop » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:00 pm

sneezus wrote:wow. those BL/FC numbers are pretty ugly. i had just decided to deposit at Michigan this week. this throws it all back up in the air for me, to be honest.



yeah.. I was trying to talk a friend of mine into choosing Michigan over other schools he is considering, but man.. this really doesn't help.

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Winston1984
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:02 pm

taptaptop wrote:
kingpin101 wrote:53.8% for BL+FC. Not great and lowest in t14 so far by 9%.



Yeah.. I am really wondering what happened to Michigan. The whole shitty Michigan economy is still influencing the employment stats THAT much?

I don't really buy this argument. There can't be that many people targeting Michigan to really bring the number down. The only thing that makes sense to me is poor bidding strategy + very heavy PI focus. I find it hard to believe that a V50 NYC firm is going to dig deeper into Cornell than Michigan. But maybe this is the case? What do you guys think?

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sneezus
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby sneezus » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:11 pm

yeah it really doesnt make sense. the PI focus does seem plausible; if you look at overall employment numbers, they are within a percentage point or two of UVA et al. it doesn't look ugly until you isolate the BL/FC..... is the difference actually being made up by public interest gunners?

i duno man. Mich offered me a fat scholly and i dig Ann Arbor, but this is making me really nervous.

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sneezus
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby sneezus » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:13 pm

oh and i doubt the michigan economy has much to do with it. it's not like Detroit was thriving back when Michigan was a top 3 law school. it was in the toilet then too.

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taptaptop
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby taptaptop » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:21 pm

Winston1984 wrote:
taptaptop wrote:
kingpin101 wrote:53.8% for BL+FC. Not great and lowest in t14 so far by 9%.



Yeah.. I am really wondering what happened to Michigan. The whole shitty Michigan economy is still influencing the employment stats THAT much?

I don't really buy this argument. There can't be that many people targeting Michigan to really bring the number down. The only thing that makes sense to me is poor bidding strategy + very heavy PI focus. I find it hard to believe that a V50 NYC firm is going to dig deeper into Cornell than Michigan. But maybe this is the case? What do you guys think?


Highly likely. I know this is not representative enough, but amongst the Michigan students I've talked to in the last couple of weeks, at least a third of them are really really passionate about PI. That kinda gave me a feeling that there are indeed a lot of PI gunners.

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tincan678
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby tincan678 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:22 pm

taptaptop wrote:
kingpin101 wrote:53.8% for BL+FC. Not great and lowest in t14 so far by 9%.



Yeah.. I am really wondering what happened to Michigan. The whole shitty Michigan economy is still influencing the employment stats THAT much?


The argument I kept hearing at ASW is that I would have more luck getting NYC biglaw from Michigan than at higher-ranked schools because they have fewer students applying to those firms. Not sure if I buy it though.

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Skool
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby Skool » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:25 pm

I got a good laugh out of this this morning. (covered in ATL)

Michigan Law Announces Guaranteed Summer Funding for All First-Year Students wrote:Under the new program, all first-year law students will be eligible for summer funding up to $4,000, beginning in the 2015-16 academic year. The funding, disbursed as a loan, will be forgiven for any student whose earnings during both law school summers total less than $18,000. Students who earn $20,000 or more must fully repay the loan, while those earning $18,000-$20,000 will repay on a sliding scale. Student repayments ultimately will make the program self-sustaining.


Something else to keep in mind when making final decisions. Basically, Michigan is clawing back 4k in aid for the sizable number of students who do PI 1L and Big Law 2L.

https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/f ... 40915.aspx

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taptaptop
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby taptaptop » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:27 pm

tincan678 wrote:
taptaptop wrote:
kingpin101 wrote:53.8% for BL+FC. Not great and lowest in t14 so far by 9%.



Yeah.. I am really wondering what happened to Michigan. The whole shitty Michigan economy is still influencing the employment stats THAT much?


The argument I kept hearing at ASW is that I would have more luck getting NYC biglaw from Michigan than at higher-ranked schools because they have fewer students applying to those firms. Not sure if I buy it though.


Does each firm have a predetermined number of associates they would hire from each certain law school? If so, then yes, that would be an advantage. But I don't think that's the case. So let' say if 5 from Michigan are applying to Skadden, and 20 from Harvard are doing the same thing. There's a chance that all those 5 from Michigan are not qualified, so Skadden hires all 20 from Harvard and none from Michigan. It's still about personal skills (and gpa of course) I guess.

Law1491
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby Law1491 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:45 pm

.
Last edited by Law1491 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sheishkabob
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby sheishkabob » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:47 pm

Successful negotiation! Pm for details

city123
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby city123 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:49 pm

taptaptop wrote:
tincan678 wrote:
taptaptop wrote:
kingpin101 wrote:53.8% for BL+FC. Not great and lowest in t14 so far by 9%.



Yeah.. I am really wondering what happened to Michigan. The whole shitty Michigan economy is still influencing the employment stats THAT much?


The argument I kept hearing at ASW is that I would have more luck getting NYC biglaw from Michigan than at higher-ranked schools because they have fewer students applying to those firms. Not sure if I buy it though.


Does each firm have a predetermined number of associates they would hire from each certain law school? If so, then yes, that would be an advantage. But I don't think that's the case. So let' say if 5 from Michigan are applying to Skadden, and 20 from Harvard are doing the same thing. There's a chance that all those 5 from Michigan are not qualified, so Skadden hires all 20 from Harvard and none from Michigan. It's still about personal skills (and gpa of course) I guess.



Firms don't necessarily have a set amount of associates they want from each school, but they want to get a representative sample (i.e. not all Harvard). They also want to maintain relationships with top schools and they spend a lot of money interviewing students, so it wouldn't make sense to then give no offers to Mich students. The big firms consistently call back about the same number of Michigan students each year. Sure that may vary slightly, but a firm like Skadden is absolutely not going to just no-offer Michigan students. (this is coming from a 3L who spent 2 summers at firms and knows plenty of 3Ls going to Skadden). Also I'm not trying to sell you on Michigan--I could care less if anyone comes here. But as a 3L i'm super bored.

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Winston1984
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:53 pm

Firms don't necessarily have a set amount of associates they want from each school, but they want to get a representative sample (i.e. not all Harvard). They also want to maintain relationships with top schools and they spend a lot of money interviewing students, so it wouldn't make sense to then give no offers to Mich students. The big firms consistently call back about the same number of Michigan students each year. Sure that may vary slightly, but a firm like Skadden is absolutely not going to just no-offer Michigan students. (this is coming from a 3L who spent 2 summers at firms and knows plenty of 3Ls going to Skadden). Also I'm not trying to sell you on Michigan--I could care less if anyone comes here. But as a 3L i'm super bored.

Since you are bored, mind telling us what you think of the latest employment stats? As bleak as they seem? Good way to explain them?

city123
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby city123 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:12 pm

Winston1984 wrote:
Firms don't necessarily have a set amount of associates they want from each school, but they want to get a representative sample (i.e. not all Harvard). They also want to maintain relationships with top schools and they spend a lot of money interviewing students, so it wouldn't make sense to then give no offers to Mich students. The big firms consistently call back about the same number of Michigan students each year. Sure that may vary slightly, but a firm like Skadden is absolutely not going to just no-offer Michigan students. (this is coming from a 3L who spent 2 summers at firms and knows plenty of 3Ls going to Skadden). Also I'm not trying to sell you on Michigan--I could care less if anyone comes here. But as a 3L i'm super bored.

Since you are bored, mind telling us what you think of the latest employment stats? As bleak as they seem? Good way to explain them?


I can only speak from personal experience, but of the 30ish people I consider my good friends here, all but two has a job at this point. I know people in my section who didn't get a job through OCI, so fall of 2L felt bleak for some. But those people mass mailed smaller markets or went full-force into PI to find good jobs. I know people who aren't in their preferred market, but I also know a lot more people who settled for a job in a market they didn't love and then hustled to get a better job in their target market. OCP is worthless--even worse than other top schools in my opinion. But Michigan alums are super helpful and make hustling easier.

And I do think the PI preference is a real thing. I would say close to 1/3 of my friends only went the PI route (and some of them were at the top of the class). You don't have to have that good of grades at Michigan to get a good DA/PD job as long as you get some experience in law school.

Ultimately you will get a job regardless of your grades as long as you are strategic, constantly working to get one, realize it's all on you (OCP won't help you), and flexible (i.e. willing to broaden your geographic search).

(And again, I'm a 3L. I don't know enough 2Ls to have an idea of how they are feeling about the job market. Maybe it was harder for them. Except they got the benefit of Michigan bumping up the GPA curve substantially so that seems hard to believe.)

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sneezus
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby sneezus » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:45 pm

city123 wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:
Firms don't necessarily have a set amount of associates they want from each school, but they want to get a representative sample (i.e. not all Harvard). They also want to maintain relationships with top schools and they spend a lot of money interviewing students, so it wouldn't make sense to then give no offers to Mich students. The big firms consistently call back about the same number of Michigan students each year. Sure that may vary slightly, but a firm like Skadden is absolutely not going to just no-offer Michigan students. (this is coming from a 3L who spent 2 summers at firms and knows plenty of 3Ls going to Skadden). Also I'm not trying to sell you on Michigan--I could care less if anyone comes here. But as a 3L i'm super bored.

Since you are bored, mind telling us what you think of the latest employment stats? As bleak as they seem? Good way to explain them?


I can only speak from personal experience, but of the 30ish people I consider my good friends here, all but two has a job at this point. I know people in my section who didn't get a job through OCI, so fall of 2L felt bleak for some. But those people mass mailed smaller markets or went full-force into PI to find good jobs. I know people who aren't in their preferred market, but I also know a lot more people who settled for a job in a market they didn't love and then hustled to get a better job in their target market. OCP is worthless--even worse than other top schools in my opinion. But Michigan alums are super helpful and make hustling easier.

And I do think the PI preference is a real thing. I would say close to 1/3 of my friends only went the PI route (and some of them were at the top of the class). You don't have to have that good of grades at Michigan to get a good DA/PD job as long as you get some experience in law school.

Ultimately you will get a job regardless of your grades as long as you are strategic, constantly working to get one, realize it's all on you (OCP won't help you), and flexible (i.e. willing to broaden your geographic search).

(And again, I'm a 3L. I don't know enough 2Ls to have an idea of how they are feeling about the job market. Maybe it was harder for them. Except they got the benefit of Michigan bumping up the GPA curve substantially so that seems hard to believe.)


thanks for your perspective; this is really helpful

qwertyTLS
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby qwertyTLS » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:40 am

ugh this sucks. I know rankings are meaningless but employment numbers are not, and Michigan doesn't look great compared to its peers.

I used to think outside of HYS that the rest of the T14 were pretty much equivalent in terms of outcome. Differences w CCN but none that warrant choosing them over a big difference in cost. Now it seems like the rest of the pack is inching away and there could be legitimacy to taking on some more cost for the rest of the schools

MadwomanintheAttic
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2018

Postby MadwomanintheAttic » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:44 am

Anyone seriously re-thinking matriculating to Michigan based on this new employment data?




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