Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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liz2534
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby liz2534 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:10 pm

...
Last edited by liz2534 on Fri May 01, 2015 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:13 pm

I thought I would share our new bios and about page:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/about/

If I knew how to resize my new avatar, I'd have one of those too :/

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BruinRegents
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby BruinRegents » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:20 pm

Looking good guys. Mike if you have a Mac, you can do it easily on Preview. Your right side seems to be blurry.

MikeSpivey wrote:I thought I would share our new bios and about page:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/about/

If I knew how to resize my new avatar, I'd have one of those too :/

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:15 pm

BruinRegents wrote:Looking good guys. Mike if you have a Mac, you can do it easily on Preview. Your right side seems to be blurry.

MikeSpivey wrote:I thought I would share our new bios and about page:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/about/

If I knew how to resize my new avatar, I'd have one of those too :/


Thanks! Alas, no Mac, I'm old and windows based. Also I mean my TLS picture I had an admissions dart board pic ready to go but it's too many pixels. I can always bring the fox logo back I guess.

My bio picture needs to be more blurred for me! But what I take away from Karen and Jennifer in photogenically I give back in capital reserves. Oh wait, no I don't.

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BruinRegents
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby BruinRegents » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:25 pm

PMed you my e-mail. Send me the avatar and I'll resize it for you.

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:58 am

My application at least one school is being held up because I put on my applications (in the education section) that I had graduated this summer, but I haven't technically done so (even though I'm done with classes) and need to get some stuff sorted out before my degree is officially conferred. Would it hurt my application if I wrote admissions an email saying, "My application wrongly notes that I had already received my degree. I am currently in the process of officially graduating, please look at my app in the meanwhile?" (Obviously it would be phrased in a slightly different manner.) I don't want my application being held up by this, and I don't see the impact of not technically having graduated when I just finished my last classes this summer, and so many applicants are still in undergrad.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:27 am

TheMostDangerousLG wrote:My application at least one school is being held up because I put on my applications (in the education section) that I had graduated this summer, but I haven't technically done so (even though I'm done with classes) and need to get some stuff sorted out before my degree is officially conferred. Would it hurt my application if I wrote admissions an email saying, "My application wrongly notes that I had already received my degree. I am currently in the process of officially graduating, please look at my app in the meanwhile?" (Obviously it would be phrased in a slightly different manner.) I don't want my application being held up by this, and I don't see the impact of not technically having graduated when I just finished my last classes this summer, and so many applicants are still in undergrad.


I agree you should be able to let law admissions offices know your application is complete, your degree simply has not been conferred. The majority of law applicants are in the same situation as the majority apply while in school.

You should work on the wording a bit though, yes :) I would suggest letting them know a timeline and what the delay is.

Humbert Humbert
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Humbert Humbert » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:35 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:My application at least one school is being held up because I put on my applications (in the education section) that I had graduated this summer, but I haven't technically done so (even though I'm done with classes) and need to get some stuff sorted out before my degree is officially conferred. Would it hurt my application if I wrote admissions an email saying, "My application wrongly notes that I had already received my degree. I am currently in the process of officially graduating, please look at my app in the meanwhile?" (Obviously it would be phrased in a slightly different manner.) I don't want my application being held up by this, and I don't see the impact of not technically having graduated when I just finished my last classes this summer, and so many applicants are still in undergrad.


I agree you should be able to let law admissions offices know your application is complete, your degree simply has not been conferred. The majority of law applicants are in the same situation as the majority apply while in school.

You should work on the wording a bit though, yes :) I would suggest letting them know a timeline and what the delay is.


Is this true? Seems like every school I've looked at says something like 60-70% of incoming students are at least 1 year out of school.

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kay2016
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby kay2016 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:04 pm

Many of my classmates are right out of undergrad.

Therefore, they (and I) applied in the fall of our last year of school.

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:25 pm

Oh god, my school is saying they aren't going to give me the credit, and I need to take another class. So now I would have to email schools saying that I have not actually received my degree, and that my application is inaccurate (where it says I'm graduated, and my resume, which says I graduated with honors). How would you recommend handling this?

I am currently attempting to fight off a full-blown panic attack..

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:42 pm

No need to panic, this happens. You will have your degree by orientation in late August/sept of 2014 yes?

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:05 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:No need to panic, this happens. You will have your degree by orientation in late August/sept of 2014 yes?


Yes, definitely. But now I have to do an about face and send an extremely awkward email to schools, no? I've already submit the applications.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:17 pm

TheMostDangerousLG wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:No need to panic, this happens. You will have your degree by orientation in late August/sept of 2014 yes?


Yes, definitely. But now I have to do an about face and send an extremely awkward email to schools, no? I've already submit the applications.


You are totally fine. Just explain the mistake and do not say anything negative about the situation.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:09 pm

Here is an info graphic and cliff notes at the end we posted today that might be of interest to some.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/infogr ... l-markets/

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:37 pm

When they say that the estimate for this cycle is 54,000 applications, do they really mean applications or do they mean applicants? Also, is there any general rule of thumb to predict the percentage of applicants that will marticulate to a law school?

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BentleyLittle
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby BentleyLittle » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:17 pm

Not sure if this has been asked but does taking the LSAT 4 times affect an applicant adversely?

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BruinRegents
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby BruinRegents » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:53 pm

BentleyLittle wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but does taking the LSAT 4 times affect an applicant adversely?

That probably depends on your score, deciding between you and another applicant, etc.

Paul Campos
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:20 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:When they say that the estimate for this cycle is 54,000 applications, do they really mean applications or do they mean applicants? Also, is there any general rule of thumb to predict the percentage of applicants that will marticulate to a law school?


54,000 means total applicants. In recent years. 86% to 88% of applicants who get accepted by at least one school end up matriculating in that cycle. The percentage of applicants that get accepted to at least one school has risen from about 55% ten years ago to around 80% in the cycle that just ended.

Huey Freeman
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Huey Freeman » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:54 pm

Hi Mike and Karen,

To what degree is there extra consideration for the difficulty of one's school/major, especially at the top schools that tend to have somewhat rigid GPA floors? A 3.55 is considered summa cum laude (top 10%) at my dedicated engineering school, whereas I fully understand that the same 3.55 might be considered below average, especially when A+ grades are given, at some universities. I'm just pretty worried that my decision to get an electrical engineering degree at a school known for grade deflation, albeit one that provides a great education, will penalize me at top tier law schools.

Thanks so much!

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:56 pm

Paul Campos wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:When they say that the estimate for this cycle is 54,000 applications, do they really mean applications or do they mean applicants? Also, is there any general rule of thumb to predict the percentage of applicants that will marticulate to a law school?


54,000 means total applicants. In recent years. 86% to 88% of applicants who get accepted by at least one school end up matriculating in that cycle. The percentage of applicants that get accepted to at least one school has risen from about 55% ten years ago to around 80% in the cycle that just ended.

That's a huge difference. Based on those numbers there will be a drop of over 16,000 law students starting school next fall.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:55 am

Paul Campos wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:When they say that the estimate for this cycle is 54,000 applications, do they really mean applications or do they mean applicants? Also, is there any general rule of thumb to predict the percentage of applicants that will marticulate to a law school?


54,000 means total applicants. In recent years. 86% to 88% of applicants who get accepted by at least one school end up matriculating in that cycle. The percentage of applicants that get accepted to at least one school has risen from about 55% ten years ago to around 80% in the cycle that just ended.


Thanks Paul, this is a great statistic to point out. Thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
Karen

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:09 am

Huey Freeman wrote:Hi Mike and Karen,

To what degree is there extra consideration for the difficulty of one's school/major, especially at the top schools that tend to have somewhat rigid GPA floors? A 3.55 is considered summa cum laude (top 10%) at my dedicated engineering school, whereas I fully understand that the same 3.55 might be considered below average, especially when A+ grades are given, at some universities. I'm just pretty worried that my decision to get an electrical engineering degree at a school known for grade deflation, albeit one that provides a great education, will penalize me at top tier law schools.

Thanks so much!


Huey,
There are a number of factors that can mitigate a lower GPA, including a difficult major, attending a school with grade deflation, having a rough start and an upward trend. It is often easy for admissions offices to see these things. The US Military Academies are a great example of tough grading and Princeton is an example of a school that took a stand against grade inflation. If your school has enough people applying to law school, your CAS report will let the schools know where you stand in relation to other applicants, otherwise, you can figure out a way to make sure the school knows that a 3.55 is in the top 10%.
And, fwiw, a 3.55 is not the floor at all top schools. It really depends on the circumstances behind that number and the other factors in your application.

Hope that is helpful!
Cheers,
Karen

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:57 pm

BentleyLittle wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but does taking the LSAT 4 times affect an applicant adversely?


Bentley,

I started this thread and the consulting firm, in part, because I got to read a lot of false pretenses and wrong advice on here since this boards inception. This is a great question to elaborate on how those arise and I will try to answer in a way that explains this.

I have heard many pre-law advisers and people on TLS over the years answer that question along the lines of "they will average all four" or "that is too many and they will hold it against you that you did not have a stable score." Both of these answers are patently wrong.

When I was early in my career and not a decision maker or higher up the food chain I would have answered it something like "we'll take a close look at all four scores and your central tendency, if there is one. We will applaud you for having the drive to take this four times and you might get a bump for that" ...all of that which would likely be wrong today.

Far and away the accurate answer if "the high score matters" and you need not to worry about the three other tests. I could go on about why in a very convincing way, I think, but just know you highly likely won't be punished or applauded for taking it 4 times -- other than your high score will count and if that was on the 4th take I am glad you took it a fourth time.

Mike
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BentleyLittle
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby BentleyLittle » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:15 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
BentleyLittle wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but does taking the LSAT 4 times affect an applicant adversely?


Bentley,

I started this thread and the consulting firm, in part, because I got to read a lot of false pretenses and wrong advice on here since this boards inception. This is a great question to elaborate on how those arise and I will try to answer in a way that explains this.

I have heard many pre-law advisers and people on TLS over the years answer that question along the lines of "they will average all four" or "that is too many and they will hold it against you that you did not have a stable score." Both of these answers are patently wrong.

When I was early in my career and not a decision maker or higher up the food chain i would have answered it something like "we'll we look take a close look at all four scores and your central tendency, if there is one. We will applaud you for having the drive to take this four times and you might get a bump for that" ...all of that which would likely be wrong today.

Far and away the accurate answer if "the high score matters" and you need not to worry about the three other tests. I could go on about why in a very convincing way, I think, but just know you highly likely won't be punished or applauded for taking it 4 times -- other than your high score will count and if that was on the 4th take I am glad you took it a fourth time.

Mike


Thank you for the response, Mike! This is reassuring.

BalanceCare
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby BalanceCare » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:53 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
BentleyLittle wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but does taking the LSAT 4 times affect an applicant adversely?


Far and away the accurate answer if "the high score matters" and you need not to worry about the three other tests. I could go on about why in a very convincing way, I think, but just know you highly likely won't be punished or applauded for taking it 4 times -- other than your high score will count and if that was on the 4th take I am glad you took it a fourth time.

Mike


Consigning with Mr. Spivey.

I had one cancel + Multiple retakes good enough for lower T14. Put off LS for a while while working, figured out why I was having problems with the test, retook and scored in the high 170s, now at HYS.

Take your time. There's no rush. See the world, get a job, even a lame one; you'll gain life experience and your time at LS will benefit. You won't regret it when you're confidently prep testing at your target score.


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