Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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bouleversement
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby bouleversement » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:29 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:I think atmospheric pressures that continue to be placed on law schools due to declining applicants may very well lead to this, yes, even at the top. To quote someone though "prediction is difficult, especially when it involves the future" and we need Oct data before we can say with greater confidence.


Thanks for your opinion on that Mike. Looking forward to your Friday release but in the meantime I have one more question area:

Would registering for the December LSAT negate the benefits of applying very early in the cycle? My GPA is sub-25th percentile for my target schools and my LSAT is only just above median (i.e. YH). I am hoping on my retake to exceed their 75th percentile to better my splitter chances. I am concerned the schools will wait until January to render a decision they may render much earlier otherwise (i.e. in the event I do not reach my target score an early cycle acceptance could become a late-cycle deny; my goal with the retake obviously is for a potential early cycle deny to become a late-cycle acceptance). Is it standard operating procedure to render the acceptance as soon as the acceptance is called for with current data even if an additional data point (read: a new LSAT score) is forthcoming? I realize if my candidacy is borderline they will surely wait.

Thanks again!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:09 pm

bouleversement wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:I think atmospheric pressures that continue to be placed on law schools due to declining applicants may very well lead to this, yes, even at the top. To quote someone though "prediction is difficult, especially when it involves the future" and we need Oct data before we can say with greater confidence.


Thanks for your opinion on that Mike. Looking forward to your Friday release but in the meantime I have one more question area:

It's going to be huge. I am being serious here, just wait!

Would registering for the December LSAT negate the benefits of applying very early in the cycle? My GPA is sub-25th percentile for my target schools and my LSAT is only just above median (i.e. YH). I am hoping on my retake to exceed their 75th percentile to better my splitter chances. I am concerned the schools will wait until January to render a decision they may render much earlier otherwise (i.e. in the event I do not reach my target score an early cycle acceptance could become a late-cycle deny; my goal with the retake obviously is for a potential early cycle deny to become a late-cycle acceptance). Is it standard operating procedure to render the acceptance as soon as the acceptance is called for with current data even if an additional data point (read: a new LSAT score) is forthcoming? I realize if my candidacy is borderline they will surely wait.

I think the whole notion of "get in as early as possible" is a bit over-hyped. Obviously if everything is equal sure, why not it shows schools you are really interested. But most schools hold or WL most applicants early on and go very slowly to wait for more data. Most schools do not read files by "order submitted" but rather do a sort by LSAt then UGPA and read by those parameters at different intervals. Put another way, if your scores are not above both medians there may be no better chance of your file being read by January if you submit in Sept versus Jan.

Thanks again!

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bouleversement
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby bouleversement » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:55 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
I think the whole notion of "get in as early as possible" is a bit over-hyped. Obviously if everything is equal sure, why not it shows schools you are really interested. But most schools hold or WL most applicants early on and go very slowly to wait for more data. Most schools do not read files by "order submitted" but rather do a sort by LSAt then UGPA and read by those parameters at different intervals. Put another way, if your scores are not above both medians there may be no better chance of your file being read by January if you submit in Sept versus Jan.



Thanks Mike! That's just the kind of answer I was looking for.

ZVBXRPL
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby ZVBXRPL » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:22 pm

bouleversement wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
I think the whole notion of "get in as early as possible" is a bit over-hyped. Obviously if everything is equal sure, why not it shows schools you are really interested. But most schools hold or WL most applicants early on and go very slowly to wait for more data. Most schools do not read files by "order submitted" but rather do a sort by LSAt then UGPA and read by those parameters at different intervals. Put another way, if your scores are not above both medians there may be no better chance of your file being read by January if you submit in Sept versus Jan.



Thanks Mike! That's just the kind of answer I was looking for.

Spivey is drunk.

linkx13
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby linkx13 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:38 pm

Spivey, in you experience, just how important is it to be above moth medians vs. being simply within the 25%-75% assuming the rest of your application is in top shape?

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bouleversement
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby bouleversement » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:48 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:
bouleversement wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
I think the whole notion of "get in as early as possible" is a bit over-hyped. Obviously if everything is equal sure, why not it shows schools you are really interested. But most schools hold or WL most applicants early on and go very slowly to wait for more data. Most schools do not read files by "order submitted" but rather do a sort by LSAt then UGPA and read by those parameters at different intervals. Put another way, if your scores are not above both medians there may be no better chance of your file being read by January if you submit in Sept versus Jan.



Thanks Mike! That's just the kind of answer I was looking for.


Spivey is drunk.


Why do you say that?

ZVBXRPL
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby ZVBXRPL » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:08 pm

He's usually spot on...look at his reply to boulever.
Last edited by ZVBXRPL on Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:08 pm

bouleversement wrote:
ZVBXRPL wrote:
bouleversement wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
I think the whole notion of "get in as early as possible" is a bit over-hyped. Obviously if everything is equal sure, why not it shows schools you are really interested. But most schools hold or WL most applicants early on and go very slowly to wait for more data. Most schools do not read files by "order submitted" but rather do a sort by LSAt then UGPA and read by those parameters at different intervals. Put another way, if your scores are not above both medians there may be no better chance of your file being read by January if you submit in Sept versus Jan.



Thanks Mike! That's just the kind of answer I was looking for.


Spivey is drunk.


Why do you say that?


Apparently typing in italics to differentiate your answer with the orginal question, in actuality, is meant to imply inebriation?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:10 pm

Two new blog.

(1) is on application deadlines for top 100 law schools. Our intern at Spivey Consulting did this by calling admissions offices and going to their websites, please let me know if you see any that need to be updated or edit please.

(2) is a pretty awesome email re: OCI.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:17 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:He's usually spot on...look at his reply to boulever.


That was as spot-on as it gets. You won't likely get any real bump if you apply early, indeed your file most likely won't be read early unless it is above both medians. The whole idea of "bump for early application submission" is mythology. Of course law admissions deans will say you get one, they need applications as early as possible to give them very valuable data about the cycle. But the reality is you will just have to wait longer.

If I am enjoying a fine adult beverage I can assure you, (1) It won't be at mid afternoon, and (2) I will be playing God of War 3 :)

Voxius
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Voxius » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:22 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Two new blog.

(1) is on application deadlines for top 100 law schools. Our intern at Spivey Consulting did this by calling admissions offices and going to their websites, please let me know if you see any that need to be updated or edit please.

(2) is a pretty awesome email re: OCI.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/


The person saying Mike is inebriated is probably a plant from another admissions consultant ;) Mike's in an earlier time zone so it's too early to be drinking anyway (though maybe he just runs on the Yale/Harvard time zone...???)

Also, regarding (2) above (the blog post with the OCI email)--Mike, you're clearly just impressed with (jealous of?? ;) ) the guy's number of twitter followers...

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:23 pm

Voxius wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Two new blog.

(1) is on application deadlines for top 100 law schools. Our intern at Spivey Consulting did this by calling admissions offices and going to their websites, please let me know if you see any that need to be updated or edit please.

(2) is a pretty awesome email re: OCI.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/


The person saying Mike is inebriated is probably a plant from another admissions consultant ;) Mike's in an earlier time zone so it's too early to be drinking anyway (though maybe he just runs on the Yale/Harvard time zone...???)

Also, regarding (2) above (the blog post with the OCI email)--Mike, you're clearly just impressed with (jealous of?? ;) ) the guy's number of twitter followers...


Super jealous. I am jealous of everyone's twitter follower count but mine :(

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kay2016
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby kay2016 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:30 pm

If you ever need a cute puppy picture to post on the blog.... Let me know.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:05 pm

kayleighcheyenne wrote:If you ever need a cute puppy picture to post on the blog.... Let me know.


yes please.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby nothingtosee » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:08 am

Is this big Friday drop happening?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:15 am

nothingtosee wrote:Is this big Friday drop happening?


Just did!

Ruluo
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Ruluo » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:17 am

nothingtosee wrote:Is this big Friday drop happening?


Haha, you all are way behind the 8-ball; oh, and the announcement is pretty crazy...

Check his twitter @spiveyconsult

Huey Freeman
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Huey Freeman » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:18 am

One last thing about the grade inflation factor...

I think you mentioned that you consider various schools that make an active effort to deflate grades, but do you also take different majors into consideration (i.e. Engineering)?

I happen to be at a top engineering school where graduating with a 3.5 is reportedly within the top 10% of the class (summa cum laude, at the minimum). I'm lucky enough to be within this range, but sadly, a 3.5 leaves me S.O.L at the top law schools. I understand that there won't be nearly as much of a bump as other soft factors, but it is at least considered among other things?

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Lavitz
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Lavitz » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:21 am

That is a big announcement.

Tell Karen I said Hi.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:57 am

Lavitz wrote:That is a big announcement.

Tell Karen I said Hi.


The coolest part is the emails/FB messages I am getting from admissions people saying "WOW"....

...then they are following up with "Tell Lavitz we say hi"

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby haus » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:03 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Is this big Friday drop happening?


Just did!

Big news indeed. Congratulations on the new addition.

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Lavitz
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Lavitz » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:33 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:The coolest part is the emails/FB messages I am getting from admissions people saying "WOW"....

...then they are following up with "Tell Lavitz we say hi"

I wouldn't be surprised. 8)

But good for you. You should be able to bring in a lot of business from Harvard applicants now. In fact, perhaps I should withdraw and reapply. I mean, I have to get in this time if the person who rejected me is helping me with my app, right? :lol:

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I Used to Be a Spy
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby I Used to Be a Spy » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:42 pm

Hey Mike,

I was wondering if you (or your new partner!) could weigh in on what schools mean when they say they "consider all LSAT scores", especially at HYS

Do these schools look more favorably on just two scores e.g. 160 --> 174 or would it be wise to retake a third time if one was confident in their abilities for a hypothetical 160/174/173

Similarly, would a canceled third score have a significantly negative impact on your application. E.g. 160/174/C

Again, mostly interested in this as it relates to HYS.

Looking forward to seeing your answer, this is a great and very helpful thread!
Last edited by I Used to Be a Spy on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Gamine
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Gamine » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:17 pm

I Used to Be a Spy wrote:Hey Mike,

I was wondering if you (or your new partner!) could weigh in on what schools mean when they say they "consider all LSAT scores", especially at HYS

Do these schools look more favorably on just two scores e.g. 160 --> 174 or would it be wise to retake a third time if one was confident in their abilities for a hypothetical 160/174/173

Similarly, would a canceled third score have a significant negatively impact your application. E.g. 160/174/C

Again, mostly interested in this as it relates to HYS.

Looking forward to seeing your answer, this is a great and very helpful thread!


I'm interested in this too

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yot11
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby yot11 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:38 pm

Hi Mike,

I was wondering how an applicant might try to overcome an instance of academic dishonesty in admissions?

Long story short, I gave homework assignments to others as reference, but they essentially turned in my assignments as their own. The professor gave us zeros for the assignments and referred us to the dean. In my case, the dean was very kind and offered me an option to withdraw (non-punitive), which I took. We all signed statements admitting the charge, but my statement specifically stated that I gave completed assignments to others who then copied my work. I was not put on academic probation and there is no mark on my transcript, but I do have the statement in my file.

I know that disclosure and an addendum are a must, but do you have experience of how other applicants might have overcome this obstacle?


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