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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:17 am
by Llamas
MikeSpivey wrote:
Llamas wrote:Hello Spivey Team,

I have a question about the GRE. For schools like Northwestern, GULC, Harvard, WUSTL, applicants are required to report any GRE scores from the past 5 years.

If I have an LSAT score that is superior to my GRE, is it worth retaking the GRE so that my GRE percentile improves?

The reason I ask this is because USNWR indicates in their ranking methodology that the GRE medians are factored into rankings. Thus, since I am obliged to report both my GRE and LSAT, I am most certainly a splitter for these schools, in the sense that my LSAT is above the median but my GRE is likely to be far below the median (even though we don't know their medians, I'm fairly confident my GRE would be below it).

Since schools only use the highest score is their medians, would it make sense to retake the GRE so that I don't bring down their hypothetical medians? Or is it the case that if an applicant has an LSAT and a GRE, the LSAT overrides any influence that the GRE may have.

Thank you for your help.


We actually aren't even sure of schools yet know the answer to this question "are both GRE/LSAT reported to USNWR" or "just LSAT" or "just highest percentile from the two" but we are working on it. I guess someone could call USNWR and ask. In fact, I may have someone in mind to do just that :) Will work at it for you all!


Thank you so much for your help. So it's possible that a random GRE score from a couple of years ago could hurt my application. Do you think how schools view this score is going to be entirely contingent on how USNWR decides to incorporate GRE into their rankings, even if I include an addendum explaining why my GRE is worse than my LSAT? Is it worth prepping for the GRE right now then so I can take as soon as possible?

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:27 am
by MikeSpivey
Llamas wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
Llamas wrote:Hello Spivey Team,

I have a question about the GRE. For schools like Northwestern, GULC, Harvard, WUSTL, applicants are required to report any GRE scores from the past 5 years.

If I have an LSAT score that is superior to my GRE, is it worth retaking the GRE so that my GRE percentile improves?

The reason I ask this is because USNWR indicates in their ranking methodology that the GRE medians are factored into rankings. Thus, since I am obliged to report both my GRE and LSAT, I am most certainly a splitter for these schools, in the sense that my LSAT is above the median but my GRE is likely to be far below the median (even though we don't know their medians, I'm fairly confident my GRE would be below it).

Since schools only use the highest score is their medians, would it make sense to retake the GRE so that I don't bring down their hypothetical medians? Or is it the case that if an applicant has an LSAT and a GRE, the LSAT overrides any influence that the GRE may have.

Thank you for your help.


We actually aren't even sure of schools yet know the answer to this question "are both GRE/LSAT reported to USNWR" or "just LSAT" or "just highest percentile from the two" but we are working on it. I guess someone could call USNWR and ask. In fact, I may have someone in mind to do just that :) Will work at it for you all!


Thank you so much for your help. So it's possible that a random GRE score from a couple of years ago could hurt my application. Do you think how schools view this score is going to be entirely contingent on how USNWR decides to incorporate GRE into their rankings, even if I include an addendum explaining why my GRE is worse than my LSAT? Is it worth prepping for the GRE right now then so I can take as soon as possible?


I'm just guessing, but I would say it is possible (I mean most anything is possible), but I also think it is unlikely. I guess this because law schools don't want your random GRE score from 3 years ago mitigating a strong LSAT score, because they like your strong LSAT score. And law schools have probably signaled this to Bob Morse at USNWR. The big question, that to date I have yet to talk to a single person who knows, is what will USNWR do with the info. Again, my guess is they will likely default to LSAT over GRE. But I have not heard that from the source -- or even from someone who has talked to the source. And it's not like we aren't trying. Honestly (and I rarely am this candid online because when I am I get angry emails from the other side), IF the LSAT reigns over GRE such that if you have both USNWR only factors in LSAT, I suspect no one will care what your GRE is. But we don't know what that if is, as yet.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:43 am
by Llamas
MikeSpivey wrote:
Llamas wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
Llamas wrote:Hello Spivey Team,

I have a question about the GRE. For schools like Northwestern, GULC, Harvard, WUSTL, applicants are required to report any GRE scores from the past 5 years.

If I have an LSAT score that is superior to my GRE, is it worth retaking the GRE so that my GRE percentile improves?

The reason I ask this is because USNWR indicates in their ranking methodology that the GRE medians are factored into rankings. Thus, since I am obliged to report both my GRE and LSAT, I am most certainly a splitter for these schools, in the sense that my LSAT is above the median but my GRE is likely to be far below the median (even though we don't know their medians, I'm fairly confident my GRE would be below it).

Since schools only use the highest score is their medians, would it make sense to retake the GRE so that I don't bring down their hypothetical medians? Or is it the case that if an applicant has an LSAT and a GRE, the LSAT overrides any influence that the GRE may have.

Thank you for your help.


We actually aren't even sure of schools yet know the answer to this question "are both GRE/LSAT reported to USNWR" or "just LSAT" or "just highest percentile from the two" but we are working on it. I guess someone could call USNWR and ask. In fact, I may have someone in mind to do just that :) Will work at it for you all!


Thank you so much for your help. So it's possible that a random GRE score from a couple of years ago could hurt my application. Do you think how schools view this score is going to be entirely contingent on how USNWR decides to incorporate GRE into their rankings, even if I include an addendum explaining why my GRE is worse than my LSAT? Is it worth prepping for the GRE right now then so I can take as soon as possible?


I'm just guessing, but I would say it is possible (I mean most anything is possible), but I also think it is unlikely. I guess this because law schools don't want your random GRE score from 3 years ago mitigating a strong LSAT score, because they like your strong LSAT score. And law schools have probably signaled this to Bob Morse at USNWR. The big question, that to date I have yet to talk to a single person who knows, is what will USNWR do with the info. Again, my guess is they will likely default to LSAT over GRE. But I have not heard that from the source -- or even from someone who has talked to the source. And it's not like we aren't trying. Honestly (and I rarely am this candid online because when I am I get angry emails from the other side), IF the LSAT reigns over GRE such that if you have both USNWR only factors in LSAT, I suspect no one will care what your GRE is. But we don't know what that if is, as yet.


Thank you for your (judicial) candor. This is essentially what I was thinking as well. I would be surprised if GRE would harm people with strong LSAT scores, since it would incentivize applicants to study for both GRE and LSAT, so that they raise the schools' medians. This would be contradictory of the mission statement of alleviating testing burdens on applicants. Anyways, I appreciate everything you're doing. Please let us know once you hear more

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:00 pm
by locomonster1
According to an update on Spivey's twitter feed, schools report the GRE only if the applicant has no LSAT scores (consistent with the aim of Harvard's accepting the GRE)

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:18 pm
by lobsicle
locomonster1 wrote:According to an update on Spivey's twitter feed, schools report the GRE only if the applicant has no LSAT scores (consistent with the aim of Harvard's accepting the GRE)


Interesting news. I'm curious who decided this? Is this USNWR's rule or just what the schools say they'll do?

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:50 pm
by MikeSpivey
lobsicle wrote:
locomonster1 wrote:According to an update on Spivey's twitter feed, schools report the GRE only if the applicant has no LSAT scores (consistent with the aim of Harvard's accepting the GRE)


Interesting news. I'm curious who decided this? Is this USNWR's rule or just what the schools say they'll do?


It's the current ABA protocol although change it up for debate. USNWR gets their data from the ABA.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:00 pm
by para219
How long do schools keep old applications on file? If one applied in,say, 2012 would that app still be in a database somewhere or are they discarded after X number of years? Thanks! 8)

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:25 am
by danielleearly
para219 wrote:How long do schools keep old applications on file? If one applied in,say, 2012 would that app still be in a database somewhere or are they discarded after X number of years? Thanks! 8)


It will depend on each school, but at HLS we kept applications on file for 5 years to meet the documentation guidelines determined by the university. However, the record of your application is still in the database for longer than that - so I could look up applicant records from 10+ years earlier.

~Danielle

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:05 pm
by spglasses
Thanks for this Q&A.

How do you see splitters being affected next cycle? It's a question that's been on many people's minds lately due to the entrance of the GRE and the just announced ABA proposal.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:52 am
by uclasplitter18
spglasses wrote:Thanks for this Q&A.

How do you see splitters being affected next cycle? It's a question that's been on many people's minds lately due to the entrance of the GRE and the just announced ABA proposal.


This also concerns me. Im a splitter for this cycle (3.2 GPA/171 LSAT). I had been planning to take a gap year and apply during the '18 cycle. But all the news about the GRE and ABA is making me reconsider.

Should I continue with my plan to take a gap year (which I really want to do for volunteer service), or is the risk too great for a splitter like me?

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:54 am
by MikeSpivey
uclasplitter18 wrote:
spglasses wrote:Thanks for this Q&A.

How do you see splitters being affected next cycle? It's a question that's been on many people's minds lately due to the entrance of the GRE and the just announced ABA proposal.


This also concerns me. Im a splitter for this cycle (3.2 GPA/171 LSAT). I had been planning to take a gap year and apply during the '18 cycle. But all the news about the GRE and ABA is making me reconsider.

Should I continue with my plan to take a gap year (which I really want to do for volunteer service), or is the risk too great for a splitter like me?


I've seen that question on here, I'm not sure I personally understand the reasoning. So feel free to chime in. My guess is that the theory is the LSAT will be de-emphasized and thus LSAC computed uGPAs will become more coveted. Tell me if I am wrong on that theory, though, maybe I am missing something.

If the above is the theory I would guess "no" to it. For starters, there is a ton of lay prestige to your school's median LSAT. I noticed very early in my career that whenever I was at conferences faculty always asked me "what's your median LSAT?" and almost never followed up with "oh yea and also your GPA?"...it will takes years for this to erode. And academic prestige is a big deal when you are in academia, for better or worse.

But more importantly, we have no evidence yet that USNWR will change their reporting protocols. So my default is that they will take the LSAT if you have an LSAT or GRE, that the LSAT will be weighted slightly more than the GPA, that the GRE if it is your only score will also be weighted slightly more than your GPA. That is my default. My guess is that, if there is change, it won't be in test score weight but rather the school can choose whether they submit the GRE or LSAT of you have both, and if that is the case nothing in the above that I just said changes. Test score would still be greater than GPA. But the deeper we get into speculating the less likely our predictions become.

What I do know is applications will be very up this cycle relative to last. Which generally means a tougher year to apply to law school. I will add that I think some of the speculation in the above will be filled in relatively soon, and once it is I will immediately tweet it.

I hope this helps!

Mike

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:40 pm
by EdTheLaywer
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
ShepherdJoo wrote:Hi Mr. MikeSpivey,

Hope this post finds you well.

How harmful is it to apply late with the december LSAT score vs. apply slightly early with the september LSAT score? I already have an LSAT score on file from September (163), but as it's below the median of many schools I'm applying to, I'm trying to see what would work best in my favor. I have a good GPA to balance out the low LSAT but not by much (3.85). I'd like to maximize my chances of getting scholarship at schools like BU, BC, and with an improved LSAT score I'd also like to see if I could get into some of the lower T-14 schools.

Thanks for your advice!


A higher LSAT in January will outweigh any perceived benefit of a slightly earlier application. General rule of thumb is if you are below median LSAT and you think you will be above median with the December score, wait. You'll make a better first impression if you just wait and apply with a median or above median LSAT.
Good Luck!
KB


Assuming there might be a rush of December LSAT takers applying the day the score is released. Would it be advantageous to apply a week or two before the December LSAT score is scheduled to be released?

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:48 pm
by MikeSpivey
EdTheLaywer wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
ShepherdJoo wrote:Hi Mr. MikeSpivey,

Hope this post finds you well.

How harmful is it to apply late with the december LSAT score vs. apply slightly early with the september LSAT score? I already have an LSAT score on file from September (163), but as it's below the median of many schools I'm applying to, I'm trying to see what would work best in my favor. I have a good GPA to balance out the low LSAT but not by much (3.85). I'd like to maximize my chances of getting scholarship at schools like BU, BC, and with an improved LSAT score I'd also like to see if I could get into some of the lower T-14 schools.

Thanks for your advice!


A higher LSAT in January will outweigh any perceived benefit of a slightly earlier application. General rule of thumb is if you are below median LSAT and you think you will be above median with the December score, wait. You'll make a better first impression if you just wait and apply with a median or above median LSAT.
Good Luck!

KB


Assuming there might be a rush of December LSAT takers applying the day the score is released. Would it be advantageous to apply a week or two before the December LSAT score is scheduled to be released?


I likely would.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:54 pm
by uclasplitter18
MikeSpivey wrote:
uclasplitter18 wrote:
spglasses wrote:Thanks for this Q&A.

How do you see splitters being affected next cycle? It's a question that's been on many people's minds lately due to the entrance of the GRE and the just announced ABA proposal.


This also concerns me. Im a splitter for this cycle (3.2 GPA/171 LSAT). I had been planning to take a gap year and apply during the '18 cycle. But all the news about the GRE and ABA is making me reconsider.

Should I continue with my plan to take a gap year (which I really want to do for volunteer service), or is the risk too great for a splitter like me?


I've seen that question on here, I'm not sure I personally understand the reasoning. So feel free to chime in. My guess is that the theory is the LSAT will be de-emphasized and thus LSAC computed uGPAs will become more coveted. Tell me if I am wrong on that theory, though, maybe I am missing something.

If the above is the theory I would guess "no" to it. For starters, there is a ton of lay prestige to your school's median LSAT. I noticed very early in my career that whenever I was at conferences faculty always asked me "what's your median LSAT?" and almost never followed up with "oh yea and also your GPA?"...it will takes years for this to erode. And academic prestige is a big deal when you are in academia, for better or worse.

But more importantly, we have no evidence yet that USNWR will change their reporting protocols. So my default is that they will take the LSAT if you have an LSAT or GRE, that the LSAT will be weighted slightly more than the GPA, that the GRE if it is your only score will also be weighted slightly more than your GPA. That is my default. My guess is that, if there is change, it won't be in test score weight but rather the school can choose whether they submit the GRE or LSAT of you have both, and if that is the case nothing in the above that I just said changes. Test score would still be greater than GPA. But the deeper we get into speculating the less likely our predictions become.

What I do know is applications will be very up this cycle relative to last. Which generally means a tougher year to apply to law school. I will add that I think some of the speculation in the above will be filled in relatively soon, and once it is I will immediately tweet it.

I hope this helps!

Mike


Thanks for the thought ought response. Schools pushing for the GRE (according to you 60+ for next cycle) and the ABA seeming likely to deemphasize an admissions test suggest, to me, that the value of the LSAT (as an admissions standard and law school success predictor) is quickly plummeting. And, I'd say, to most people, these developments came out of nowhere, which is why it's been hard for me to feel confident in when I should apply. Who knows what news might suddenly be announced that further tanked the relative value of the LSAT? It was nice to get some insight from someone who is more abreast of any upcoming changes.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:38 pm
by MikeSpivey
Goodness gracious. Yes I just dropped that. I'm trying to watch some college football and I see a thread on reddit where multiple people are talking about how the GRE is "replacing" the LSAT and the LSAT is "going away." This after talking to multiple deans of admission this week, in early November, who are already frustrated with applicants going bonkers.

Can I be honest with you all (actually I just wanted to quote Zero Dark Thirty). But seriously, the overreactions do nothing but hurt you all. Many deans of admission read these boards. When people start using words like "freaking out" time after time it just causes Adcoms to slow down and look deeper for red flags. I really am being honest here, so please bear with me because I swear this is meant to help. If you are an admissions final decision-maker (or a hiring partner which will soon become the center of your galaxy) you are probably between the age of 35-65. All people age 35-65 in higher ed do is talk about how much applicants freak out at every little thing. Nothing crazy or radical is happening. Next year you will highly likely have a choice, you can take the LSAT or you can take the GRE. YAY! Unlike any applicant before just pick the one you are better at. Tt's like the opposite reason to freak out. Have a dance party over this. If you submit an application with a few errors, if you have an open container violation, if you have two W's on your transcript, if you haven't worked in a legal job, if you submit your application a few weeks later than the go-getters on TLS seem to be. None of these register on anyone's radar. This process gets infinitely more stressful come Dec-March when you are enduring the long wait from your dream schools. I wish I knew the words to help with the anxiety then, but I don't. So right now I'll just say not a single thing has really changed. Please take some solace in that.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:42 pm
by DKilloranPowerScore
MikeSpivey wrote:Goodness gracious. Yes I just dropped that. I'm trying to watch some college football and I see a thread on reddit where multiple people are talking about how the GRE is "replacing" the LSAT and the LSAT is "going away." This after talking to multiple deans of admission this week, in early November, who are already frustrated with applicants going bonkers.

Can I be honest with you all (actually I just wanted to quote Zero Dark Thirty). But seriously, the overreactions do nothing but hurt you all. Many deans of admission read these boards. When people start using words like "freaking out" time after time it just causes Adcoms to slow down and look deeper for red flags. I really am being honest here, so please bear with me because I swear this is meant to help. If you are an admissions final decision-maker (or a hiring partner which will soon become the center of your galaxy) you are probably between the age of 35-65. All people age 35-65 in higher ed do is talk about how much applicants freak out at every little thing. Nothing crazy or radical is happening. Next year you will highly likely have a choice, you can take the LSAT or you can take the GRE. YAY! Unlike any applicant before just pick the one you are better at. Tt's like the opposite reason to freak out. Have a dance party over this. If you submit an application with a few errors, if you have an open container violation, if you have two W's on your transcript, if you haven't worked in a legal job, if you submit your application a few weeks later than the go-getters on TLS seem to be. None of these register on anyone's radar. This process gets infinitely more stressful come Dec-March when you are enduring the long wait from your dream schools. I wish I knew the words to help with the anxiety then, but I don't. So right now I'll just say not a single thing has really changed. Please take some solace in that.


Let me just say I agree 100% with this. Especially the part about this year not being any different, as well as the fact that minor violations are never a big deal (unless you have 3 or more of them). Rock solid advice.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:43 pm
by QuackingAspen
.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:18 pm
by MikeSpivey
NM

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:24 pm
by Hstrat
Hello, I've got a weirdly specific question about HLS admissions, so apologies if this is diving a little too deep.

There was a thread on reddit a little while back (link: https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmissions/comments/7a7b2j/chances_at_hys/dp7pwl2/) that discussed the chances of low-GPA applicants to Harvard. The commenter said that, based on his LSN research, HLS appears to fill 80% of its class with applicants at least 1 year removed from Undergrad, and that they are actually very tolerant of splitters within that group - moreso than their overall stats might indicate, due to a lack of tolerance for K-JD splitters. He said they seem to have a GPA floor of 3.5 for that group.

I have no idea how he could aggregate this kind of data from LSN, but as a 3.5/177 two years out of Undergrad, I'm very interested in his conclusions! Does that sound right? Wrong? Like I'm majorly over-thinking this?

Thanks for your help!

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:56 pm
by chargers21
Hstrat wrote:Hello, I've got a weirdly specific question about HLS admissions, so apologies if this is.

There was a thread on reddit a little while back (link: https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmissions/comments/7a7b2j/chances_at_hys/dp7pwl2/) that discussed the chances of low-GPA applicants to Harvard. The commenter said that, based on his LSN research, HLS appears to fill 80% of its class with applicants at least 1 year removed from Undergrad, and that they are actually very tolerant of splitters within that group - moreso than their overall stats might indicate, due to a lack of tolerance for K-JD splitters. He said they seem to have a GPA floor of 3.5 for that group.

I have no idea how he could aggregate this kind of data from LSN, but as a 3.5/177 two years out of Undergrad, I'm very interested in his conclusions! Does that sound right? Wrong? Like I'm majorly over-thinking this?

Thanks for your help!

He's going to tell you that he can't discuss school specific things like this. But anyways, their floor is around 3.5 and you have a 177 so you should apply with the best app you possibly can and see if you catch their eye. It is highly unlikely you get in, but you are looking at good odds elsewhere in the t13

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:03 pm
by Hstrat
chargers21 wrote:
Hstrat wrote:Hello, I've got a weirdly specific question about HLS admissions, so apologies if this is.

There was a thread on reddit a little while back (link: https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmissions/comments/7a7b2j/chances_at_hys/dp7pwl2/) that discussed the chances of low-GPA applicants to Harvard. The commenter said that, based on his LSN research, HLS appears to fill 80% of its class with applicants at least 1 year removed from Undergrad, and that they are actually very tolerant of splitters within that group - moreso than their overall stats might indicate, due to a lack of tolerance for K-JD splitters. He said they seem to have a GPA floor of 3.5 for that group.

I have no idea how he could aggregate this kind of data from LSN, but as a 3.5/177 two years out of Undergrad, I'm very interested in his conclusions! Does that sound right? Wrong? Like I'm majorly over-thinking this?

Thanks for your help!

He's going to tell you that he can't discuss school specific things like this. But anyways, their floor is around 3.5 and you have a 177 so you should apply with the best app you possibly can and see if you catch their eye. It is highly unlikely you get in, but you are looking at good odds elsewhere in the t13


Thanks! Yeah that's basically the plan. Shot an app to them in October, applying broadly throughout the rest of the T13. HLS and UChicago are really the only schools where I'm especially worried about admission (I'm not wasting money on Stanford or Yale), and LSN doesn't have many useful data points for my stats. I guess I'll just have to wait it out!

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:16 pm
by MikeSpivey
chargers21 wrote:
Hstrat wrote:Hello, I've got a weirdly specific question about HLS admissions, so apologies if this is.

There was a thread on reddit a little while back (link: https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmissions/comments/7a7b2j/chances_at_hys/dp7pwl2/) that discussed the chances of low-GPA applicants to Harvard. The commenter said that, based on his LSN research, HLS appears to fill 80% of its class with applicants at least 1 year removed from Undergrad, and that they are actually very tolerant of splitters within that group - moreso than their overall stats might indicate, due to a lack of tolerance for K-JD splitters. He said they seem to have a GPA floor of 3.5 for that group.

I have no idea how he could aggregate this kind of data from LSN, but as a 3.5/177 two years out of Undergrad, I'm very interested in his conclusions! Does that sound right? Wrong? Like I'm majorly over-thinking this?

Thanks for your help!

He's going to tell you that he can't discuss school specific things like this. But anyways, their floor is around 3.5 and you have a 177 so you should apply with the best app you possibly can and see if you catch their eye. It is highly unlikely you get in, but you are looking at good odds elsewhere in the t13


LSN has historically been about 4-5% of the applicant pool, per my understanding. So I wouldn't put over value into it, although longitudinal cycle to cycle you can see trends. I do know HLS cares about multiple dimensions including work experience, interview skills, etc.

Beyond that, I can't discuss school specific things :)

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:12 pm
by MikeSpivey
Here's a pretty cool blog. Pretty cool because I didn't really have to do much :lol:

But there's some good stuff in here I think: http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/admiss ... -students/

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:57 pm
by Dybbuk
Hello, I have a question that I've been hoping to get an answer for from someone with actual law school admission experience. How is being LGBT viewed when deciding the fate of an applicant? TLS conventional wisdom seems to range from it having little to no impact, to it being a "soft" with some, small ability to improve your chances - whIch is so vague as to be pretty much unhelpful, and leaves a fair amount of uncertainty as to which schools to be aiming for. I am not expecting it to give the sort of boost that a real URM applicant gets, but in your experience, how much, if any, of a boost would an LGBT splitter that is at or slightly below the LSAT medians of T20/T14 schools get? Asking for a friend.

Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:11 am
by dan9257
Hi Spivey!

Is a higher score from Feb LSAT (at or above median) better than the lower score (at or below median) from December LSAT (assuming at or above GPA)? I know even a slightly better score from December LSAT is better than submitting apps with June/September scores but does this also apply to Feb LSAT? I am aiming for T10.

Thank you so much!