Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

Which would you prefer most?

Poll ended at Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:05 am

1. Blog advice
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2. Podcast advice
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3. Video advice
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4. Just keep it all on TLS
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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:39 pm

mghaffar wrote:I saw the Waitlist Webinar post late and am really sad to have missed it. Any chance there is a recording somewhere that you can post?


Ask and ye shall receive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-pr_cmbq44

Apologies Karen and I are so giggly at first.

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pterodactyls
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby pterodactyls » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:17 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
mghaffar wrote:I saw the Waitlist Webinar post late and am really sad to have missed it. Any chance there is a recording somewhere that you can post?


Ask and ye shall receive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-pr_cmbq44

Apologies Karen and I are so giggly at first.


Thanks for posting this, it was helpful!

Admittedly, I had planned to attend the webinar but had something come up last minute. So I'm glad I still got to see it!

cam89
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby cam89 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:07 pm

Hi all,

When negotiating scholarships- is there any point in mentioning that you were admitted into a higher ranked school (even though that school didn't offer you any scholarship money), or should you only mention other scholarship offers that you got?

Thanks

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Nagster5
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Nagster5 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:11 am

cam89 wrote:Hi all,

When negotiating scholarships- is there any point in mentioning that you were admitted into a higher ranked school (even though that school didn't offer you any scholarship money), or should you only mention other scholarship offers that you got?

Thanks


It can help, yes.

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mornincounselor
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby mornincounselor » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:24 am

Will applicants gain access to the law school employment disclosures for the class of 2015 soon? Before deposit deadlines hopefully?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:29 am

mornincounselor wrote:Will applicants gain access to the law school employment disclosures for the class of 2015 soon? Before deposit deadlines hopefully?


Not sure if before deposit deadlines but should be coming soon. Did you check LST?

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cannibal ox
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby cannibal ox » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:34 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:Will applicants gain access to the law school employment disclosures for the class of 2015 soon? Before deposit deadlines hopefully?


Not sure if before deposit deadlines but should be coming soon. Did you check LST?


Last year the data was posted on LST on April 29th (a Wednesday), but schools had begun posting stats on their websites starting in late March. I believe Penn was the first school to post class of 2014 stats.

lingo
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby lingo » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:23 am

In the waitlist webinar Mike mentioned a blog post called the Surprising Math of the Waitlist. Has anyone found it?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:27 am

lingo wrote:In the waitlist webinar Mike mentioned a blog post called the Surprising Math of the Waitlist. Has anyone found it?


I thought I had a more detailed one, but here is something:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/mistak ... dest-part/

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby jenesaislaw » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:03 pm

cannibal ox wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:Will applicants gain access to the law school employment disclosures for the class of 2015 soon? Before deposit deadlines hopefully?


Not sure if before deposit deadlines but should be coming soon. Did you check LST?


Last year the data was posted on LST on April 29th (a Wednesday), but schools had begun posting stats on their websites starting in late March. I believe Penn was the first school to post class of 2014 stats.


Date should be similar again this year for updates on LST. But yes, schools will start posting their new reports very soon and, as with every year, someone on TLS will aggregate the findings on an editable spreadsheet before us.

chestnut90
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby chestnut90 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:40 am

Hello,

Is is okay to put deposits in two different schools?
Thank you!

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fliptrip
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby fliptrip » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:41 pm

Watching folks being driven mad with waiting in various applicant threads makes me wonder why law schools operate on a rolling application basis. Why not have defined decision dates like undergrad and b-school admissions?

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splitterfromhell
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby splitterfromhell » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:14 pm

How much leverage am I giving up by depositing at a given school? Is the negotiation game over once I do?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:49 am

chestnut90 wrote:Hello,

Is is okay to put deposits in two different schools?
Thank you!


This is from two cycles ago but worth noting vis-a-vis the question:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/the-mu ... ot-happen/

AlexandraHope
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby AlexandraHope » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:26 am

How effective is the June LSAT for scholarship negotiations or increases.
Last edited by AlexandraHope on Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Loney M. Setnick
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Loney M. Setnick » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:28 am

Hi,
I've been waitlisted at Harvard and don't know what to include in my LOCI. I listened to your 7sage waitlist webinar, but wasn't sure if all of your advice applied to Harvard or if the LOCI should be a little different. Any suggestions you have would be immensely appreciated!

Nlawsing
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Nlawsing » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:07 am

Loney M. Setnick wrote:Hi,
I've been waitlisted at Harvard and don't know what to include in my LOCI. I listened to your 7sage waitlist webinar, but wasn't sure if all of your advice applied to Harvard or if the LOCI should be a little different. Any suggestions you have would be immensely appreciated!


+1 I'd love to know the answer to this as well thanks!

HYPSM
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby HYPSM » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:38 am

+1

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:41 pm

Nlawsing wrote:
Loney M. Setnick wrote:Hi,
I've been waitlisted at Harvard and don't know what to include in my LOCI. I listened to your 7sage waitlist webinar, but wasn't sure if all of your advice applied to Harvard or if the LOCI should be a little different. Any suggestions you have would be immensely appreciated!


+1 I'd love to know the answer to this as well thanks!


The 7Sage webinar did go over general advice on the WL, but each school is slightly different. The important takeaway for all schools is that you need to let them know that you are interested in attending the school. I can't think of any schools that really want to admit someone from the WL who isn't interested in attending.

As we have said many times in this forum, we can only answer general advice and not provide specific or individual advice as this would be unfair to our clients.

Let the schools know that you are interested and follow their lead when it comes to visiting or reaching out to an individual person in the office.
Hang in there!
Cheers,
KB

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:43 pm

AlexandraHope wrote:How effective is the June LSAT for scholarship negotiations or increases.


It's a bit of a gamble, but it could work depending on the school's needs and resources. If you do decide to take it, it won't hurt to ask -- as long as you ask nicely!!

Cheers,
KB

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vested
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby vested » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:25 pm

How do schools view deferment in scholarship negotiation (especially if the applicant had a late positive development like a much higher Feb LSAT score)?

It seems like if a school can't give a scholarship that aligns with an applicant's #s due to overcommitting funds earlier in the cycle, they would jump at the chance to defer that student for next class and make a much better offer. Does this generally hold true?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:22 am

Hi all,

I have the most recent data dump for this cycle. Unfortunately, I do not have an intern for the next month +, and no idea how to code these for our blog. So I will tweet the data (which appears to be stabilizing, which is not unexpected of curse):

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult

-Mike

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:27 am

vested wrote:How do schools view deferment in scholarship negotiation (especially if the applicant had a late positive development like a much higher Feb LSAT score)?

It seems like if a school can't give a scholarship that aligns with an applicant's #s due to overcommitting funds earlier in the cycle, they would jump at the chance to defer that student for next class and make a much better offer. Does this generally hold true?


This varies wildly school to school and year to year (depending how undercommited or overcommitted a law school is)

Some schools will offer MORE $$$ to defer, others have an almost immutable resistance to it at all. You are going to have to ask, of course. And they may want that LSAT now -- not in a theoretical future year.

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mabes
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby mabes » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:49 am

I'm working on an LOCI to send to Harvard while sitting on the waitlist there, and I'm thinking of a line that Mr. Spivey said on a recent podcast about how ad comms have entire file cabinets of 4.0 candidates to differentiate between when looking to admit a waitlister...

So, do top schools ever consider average candidates (like at that school's GPA/LSAT median), or even below average, for waitlist spots? Makes sense that they would fill these occasional holes in the class with splitters or other statistically strong candidates just to boost their medians.

I'm gonna submit this LOCI either way, just wondering how futile it is :lol: :roll:

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:17 pm

mabes wrote:I'm working on an LOCI to send to Harvard while sitting on the waitlist there, and I'm thinking of a line that Mr. Spivey said on a recent podcast about how ad comms have entire file cabinets of 4.0 candidates to differentiate between when looking to admit a waitlister...

So, do top schools ever consider average candidates (like at that school's GPA/LSAT median), or even below average, for waitlist spots? Makes sense that they would fill these occasional holes in the class with splitters or other statistically strong candidates just to boost their medians.

I'm gonna submit this LOCI either way, just wondering how futile it is :lol: :roll:


Generally speaking, when deciding which wait-listed applicants to admit, schools are most concerned with 1) identifying the students that fill in the gaps or strengthen their incoming class (LSAT, GPA, work experience, gender balance, etc.). These are things that are out of your control at this stage; 2) knowing that a student is still interested in the school and perhaps why they are interested in particular; and 3) knowing that a student would (immediately) accept an offer and enroll.

Stay in the game and submit the LOCI.
Statistically speaking, you may still have the same percent chance of being admitted from the WL as you would from the regular pool - but you can't win if you don't play :)

Cheers,
KB


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