Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:22 pm

salander wrote:Happy New Year's Eve!

Out of curiosity, when schools report their GPA medians, do they factor in a KJD's GPA at the time of admittance or do they use the students' updated grades at the end of senior year?


Near certain it is their updated grades after they graduate but Karen will know for sure.

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jetsfan1
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby jetsfan1 » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:19 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
salander wrote:Happy New Year's Eve!

Out of curiosity, when schools report their GPA medians, do they factor in a KJD's GPA at the time of admittance or do they use the students' updated grades at the end of senior year?


Near certain it is their updated grades after they graduate but Karen will know for sure.


Hey Salander. Not to highjack your thread Spivey but here is Dean Perez's answer to this question from over in his thread. Think its a pretty good explanation.

GreekOmega12 wrote:
If you are K-JD, which GPA gets reported to US News? The GPA you apply with in the fall or your final GPA?


The answer is the same for everyone, K-JD or otherwise. USNWR asks for the GPA that schools reported to the ABA. The GPA schools report to the ABA is what you provide to LSAC. If you don't provide your final GPA to LSAC, then the school reports whatever you did submit. For some students who apply really early, this might not even include Fall grades, either.

There was some grumbling about some schools possibly cherry-picking admitted students to submit their final transcripts if their GPA went up. While I have no idea if this actually happened anywhere (I can't imagine the cumulative bump to a median could possibly be big enough to matter), the rules require a school to do the same thing for everyone. Either no one has to update their final transcripts or a school must require everyone to update LSAC with their final transcripts. Some universities allow the law school to consider LSAC transcript copies as "official" for enrollment purposes so some schools might ask their matriculants (students actually attending) to submit their final transcripts to LSAC for this reason.

Dean Perez
Texas Tech Law


Also, I won't post it here but if you head over to the thread at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=175385&start=350 Trip has a pretty good analysis of the potential impact of this.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:48 am

jetsfan1 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
salander wrote:Happy New Year's Eve!

Out of curiosity, when schools report their GPA medians, do they factor in a KJD's GPA at the time of admittance or do they use the students' updated grades at the end of senior year?


Near certain it is their updated grades after they graduate but Karen will know for sure.


Hey Salander. Not to highjack your thread Spivey but here is Dean Perez's answer to this question from over in his thread. Think its a pretty good explanation.

GreekOmega12 wrote:
If you are K-JD, which GPA gets reported to US News? The GPA you apply with in the fall or your final GPA?


The answer is the same for everyone, K-JD or otherwise. USNWR asks for the GPA that schools reported to the ABA. The GPA schools report to the ABA is what you provide to LSAC. If you don't provide your final GPA to LSAC, then the school reports whatever you did submit. For some students who apply really early, this might not even include Fall grades, either.

There was some grumbling about some schools possibly cherry-picking admitted students to submit their final transcripts if their GPA went up. While I have no idea if this actually happened anywhere (I can't imagine the cumulative bump to a median could possibly be big enough to matter), the rules require a school to do the same thing for everyone. Either no one has to update their final transcripts or a school must require everyone to update LSAC with their final transcripts. Some universities allow the law school to consider LSAC transcript copies as "official" for enrollment purposes so some schools might ask their matriculants (students actually attending) to submit their final transcripts to LSAC for this reason.

Dean Perez
Texas Tech Law


Also, I won't post it here but if you head over to the thread at http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... &start=350 Trip has a pretty good analysis of the potential impact of this.


Works for me! I thought they wanted something more standardized of late, hence they collection of final grades for all, hence the Oct/Dec final submission of data etc. That will come, because there has been a recent push towards much more standardization (and auditing) is admissions and placement data.

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mabes
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby mabes » Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:03 pm

Is it ever appropriate to send a resume update to schools I already applied to?

I'm still in undergrad, and will be contacting the schools I haven't heard a decision from yet (submitted on Halloween) to send new grades. I just got news a paper I submitted to a journal is being published, and I'm starting an internship this semester with a nationally prominent legal organization.

I know this could be fodder for a LOCI if I'm waitlisted places, but when I e-mail the offices about new Fall semester grades, is it beneficial to say "And here's updates on blah blah blah" in the body of the e-mail?

Thanks!!

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DerekMeeker
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby DerekMeeker » Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:08 pm

mabes wrote:Is it ever appropriate to send a resume update to schools I already applied to?

I'm still in undergrad, and will be contacting the schools I haven't heard a decision from yet (submitted on Halloween) to send new grades. I just got news a paper I submitted to a journal is being published, and I'm starting an internship this semester with a nationally prominent legal organization.

I know this could be fodder for a LOCI if I'm waitlisted places, but when I e-mail the offices about new Fall semester grades, is it beneficial to say "And here's updates on blah blah blah" in the body of the e-mail?

Thanks!!


Yes, definitely send an updated resume as that is information they would want to know. Do attach your resume to the email and reference the updates in the body of the email.

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DerekMeeker
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby DerekMeeker » Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:15 pm

tflan19 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
candidlatke wrote:If our transcripts get updated/we get academic distinctions in the meantime as fall quarter for most UG schools is drawing to a close, should we email the schools that have yet to make a decision proactively and let them know about this update? (perhaps send an updated resume?)


Especially if your grades go up I would, yes.


Sorry if this is too specific - should we reach out to schools that we have been accepted to but not yet heard back from on scholarships with such updates? Or save this information for scholarship negotiations? Thank you so much for your help!


I would send the updated transcripts to those schools now.

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DerekMeeker
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby DerekMeeker » Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:28 pm

[quote="Jrr13"]Hey Spivey!

2 questions

(1) Do schools use the LSAT writing sample and weigh it well if the sample is written well? And, do you know if schools even generally read them?

Yes, schools generally read them, but I would say they tend to use them more as a "check" on writing ability. If I had any questions about the applicant's writing ability (for example, because of something in the personal statement or other written materials, or if the applicant had a technical degree/background with little writing experience, or English was not the applicant's first language, etc.), I paid closer attention to the writing sample. But the writing sample generally is not something that would elevate an application.

(2) I have poor hand writing and fear that most of the admissions reps would look at my writing sample and either give up at attempting to read it or laugh. Would it be a good idea to send in an addenda transcribing word for word what I wrote onto a word document? I went complete on all of my apps late November/early December so I am not sure it is the best idea to send this as extra

No, I would not send an addendum transcribing the writing sample.

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splitterfromhell
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby splitterfromhell » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:47 pm

I'm certain this has been covered ad nauseam, but do I need to inform schools of an increase in my score via retake, or will they automatically learn of it?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:54 pm

splitterfromhell wrote:I'm certain this has been covered ad nauseam, but do I need to inform schools of an increase in my score via retake, or will they automatically learn of it?


Both.

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splitterfromhell
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby splitterfromhell » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:15 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
splitterfromhell wrote:I'm certain this has been covered ad nauseam, but do I need to inform schools of an increase in my score via retake, or will they automatically learn of it?


Both.


What is the proper way to inform them?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:03 pm

splitterfromhell wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
splitterfromhell wrote:I'm certain this has been covered ad nauseam, but do I need to inform schools of an increase in my score via retake, or will they automatically learn of it?


Both.


What is the proper way to inform them?


I would do via email so it goes permanently in your file.

tulo23
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby tulo23 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:28 pm

I improved on my lsat retake from a 154 to a 175 (I know). Should I include an addendum even though the only difference was that I studied for 3 months vs 3 days? Also do schools that still say they average scores really just consider the highest?

Thanks!!

SWNAM90
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby SWNAM90 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:15 pm

Hi!

I just saw a 3 point drop in my lsat score from 169 to 166 :cry:

Now, back to reality and face the truth. I would love to be in either Columbia or UPenn. Would you recommend that I apply ED2 to UPENN? Or should I apply to both law schools regularly? Or, I guess the more precise question is, would I have a decent (ambiguous word.. sry) chance in getting into Columb? I ask because I have no idea what the cycle looks like as of now, and if it's kinda certain that I'll be rejected by Columb with a 169 and a 3.75, i'd definitely apply ED2 to UPenn.

Thank you!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:26 pm

tulo23 wrote:I improved on my lsat retake from a 154 to a 175 (I know). Should I include an addendum even though the only difference was that I studied for 3 months vs 3 days? Also do schools that still say they average scores really just consider the highest?

Thanks!!


You should certainly address this significant jump -- and the fact that you took the first test with next to no preparation is important to explain this difference.
All schools will see all scores. Some score reports will raise questions more than others (like "How did s/he go from a 154 to a 175??? Oh, they took the first test blind.") but all schools will see all scores.
But the truth is that 100% of the time, the school will report the highest score to the ABA. Every. Single. Time. No exceptions. Ever.

and CONGRATS on that score!!

Cheers,
Karen

tulo23
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby tulo23 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:20 am

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
tulo23 wrote:I improved on my lsat retake from a 154 to a 175 (I know). Should I include an addendum even though the only difference was that I studied for 3 months vs 3 days? Also do schools that still say they average scores really just consider the highest?

Thanks!!


You should certainly address this significant jump -- and the fact that you took the first test with next to no preparation is important to explain this difference.
All schools will see all scores. Some score reports will raise questions more than others (like "How did s/he go from a 154 to a 175??? Oh, they took the first test blind.") but all schools will see all scores.
But the truth is that 100% of the time, the school will report the highest score to the ABA. Every. Single. Time. No exceptions. Ever.

and CONGRATS on that score!!

Cheers,
Karen


I'll definitely do that then! I'm just a little uncertain about how law schools would consider such a large jump. Thanks a lot!

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salander
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby salander » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:01 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
jetsfan1 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
salander wrote:Happy New Year's Eve!

Out of curiosity, when schools report their GPA medians, do they factor in a KJD's GPA at the time of admittance or do they use the students' updated grades at the end of senior year?


Near certain it is their updated grades after they graduate but Karen will know for sure.


Hey Salander. Not to highjack your thread Spivey but here is Dean Perez's answer to this question from over in his thread. Think its a pretty good explanation.

GreekOmega12 wrote:
If you are K-JD, which GPA gets reported to US News? The GPA you apply with in the fall or your final GPA?


The answer is the same for everyone, K-JD or otherwise. USNWR asks for the GPA that schools reported to the ABA. The GPA schools report to the ABA is what you provide to LSAC. If you don't provide your final GPA to LSAC, then the school reports whatever you did submit. For some students who apply really early, this might not even include Fall grades, either.

There was some grumbling about some schools possibly cherry-picking admitted students to submit their final transcripts if their GPA went up. While I have no idea if this actually happened anywhere (I can't imagine the cumulative bump to a median could possibly be big enough to matter), the rules require a school to do the same thing for everyone. Either no one has to update their final transcripts or a school must require everyone to update LSAC with their final transcripts. Some universities allow the law school to consider LSAC transcript copies as "official" for enrollment purposes so some schools might ask their matriculants (students actually attending) to submit their final transcripts to LSAC for this reason.

Dean Perez
Texas Tech Law


Also, I won't post it here but if you head over to the thread at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=175385&start=350 Trip has a pretty good analysis of the potential impact of this.


Works for me! I thought they wanted something more standardized of late, hence they collection of final grades for all, hence the Oct/Dec final submission of data etc. That will come, because there has been a recent push towards much more standardization (and auditing) is admissions and placement data.

Thanks to the both of you! This is interesting. Then, when schools accept KJDs very early on, they're taking a gamble that their GPAs will remain roughly the same after their senior years? I wonder if this is something that factors into admissions at all (however minor).

SWNAM90
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby SWNAM90 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:32 am

Hi!

I saw a 3 point drop in the December LSAT from 169 to 166. :cry: I am planning to apply to UPenn for the early decision 2. Should I send an addendum explaining the 3 point drop?

Thanks!

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jetsfan1
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby jetsfan1 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:58 am

salander wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
jetsfan1 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
salander wrote:Happy New Year's Eve!

Out of curiosity, when schools report their GPA medians, do they factor in a KJD's GPA at the time of admittance or do they use the students' updated grades at the end of senior year?


Near certain it is their updated grades after they graduate but Karen will know for sure.


Hey Salander. Not to highjack your thread Spivey but here is Dean Perez's answer to this question from over in his thread. Think its a pretty good explanation.

GreekOmega12 wrote:
If you are K-JD, which GPA gets reported to US News? The GPA you apply with in the fall or your final GPA?


The answer is the same for everyone, K-JD or otherwise. USNWR asks for the GPA that schools reported to the ABA. The GPA schools report to the ABA is what you provide to LSAC. If you don't provide your final GPA to LSAC, then the school reports whatever you did submit. For some students who apply really early, this might not even include Fall grades, either.

There was some grumbling about some schools possibly cherry-picking admitted students to submit their final transcripts if their GPA went up. While I have no idea if this actually happened anywhere (I can't imagine the cumulative bump to a median could possibly be big enough to matter), the rules require a school to do the same thing for everyone. Either no one has to update their final transcripts or a school must require everyone to update LSAC with their final transcripts. Some universities allow the law school to consider LSAC transcript copies as "official" for enrollment purposes so some schools might ask their matriculants (students actually attending) to submit their final transcripts to LSAC for this reason.

Dean Perez
Texas Tech Law


Also, I won't post it here but if you head over to the thread at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=175385&start=350 Trip has a pretty good analysis of the potential impact of this.


Works for me! I thought they wanted something more standardized of late, hence they collection of final grades for all, hence the Oct/Dec final submission of data etc. That will come, because there has been a recent push towards much more standardization (and auditing) is admissions and placement data.

Thanks to the both of you! This is interesting. Then, when schools accept KJDs very early on, they're taking a gamble that their GPAs will remain roughly the same after their senior years? I wonder if this is something that factors into admissions at all (however minor).


Speculating here, but I doubt it. Trip ran the numbers there a bit, and the chances of these grades actually affecting medians are incredibly slim (you can see it in Dean Perez's thread). Gotta keep in mind some go up as well. Plus, it would be incredibly unfair to the applicant to assume they couldn't maintain a gpa they've already held over 3 years.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:27 am

SWNAM90 wrote:Hi!

I saw a 3 point drop in the December LSAT from 169 to 166. :cry: I am planning to apply to UPenn for the early decision 2. Should I send an addendum explaining the 3 point drop?

Thanks!


Nope!

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MrBalloons
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MrBalloons » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:20 pm

I don't remember if I've seen this in here before, but I reread my addendum a day after I sent it in and noticed a minor typo. Is it worth it to send in an updated copy to the schools or no? My mind says no, but my anxiousness says yes.

Borderlander
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Borderlander » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:54 pm

My question is regarding employment changes during the admissions process.

I am currently a middle school teacher, and for reasons I'd rather not disclose am considering leaving for another job starting February. My concern is that this is happening mid-cycle right before I plan on submitting my applications and I'm worried what kind of impression that might give the admissions council when they see my last job ended in January right before I applied. Would seeing a teacher leave in the middle of the school year hurt my chances of admission at a high ranking school where my LSAT and GPA are at the median or lower?

I would really appreciate some guidance here. Thanks!

Jrr13
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Jrr13 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:23 pm

When I receive a reply from an admissions rep for submitting extra material or asking about campus tours and such, should I email back a quick thank you? I do appreciate their replies, but I know that they are busy and get hundreds of emails probably
Last edited by Jrr13 on Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:43 pm

MrBalloons wrote:I don't remember if I've seen this in here before, but I reread my addendum a day after I sent it in and noticed a minor typo. Is it worth it to send in an updated copy to the schools or no? My mind says no, but my anxiousness says yes.


If it is a minor typo, I'd let it go. Your decision will not be based on a minor typo. A dozen typos and poor writing is a different story, but one wee mess up is nothing to fret about. Unless you've pluralized something by putting an "apostrophe s" .. then I would have already judged you (it's my biggest pet peeve -- but honestly, I've done it in a text and have been judged!)

Cheers,
KB

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:46 pm

Borderlander wrote:My question is regarding employment changes during the admissions process.

I am currently a middle school teacher, and for reasons I'd rather not disclose am considering leaving for another job starting February. My concern is that this is happening mid-cycle right before I plan on submitting my applications and I'm worried what kind of impression that might give the admissions council when they see my last job ended in January right before I applied. Would seeing a teacher leave in the middle of the school year hurt my chances of admission at a high ranking school where my LSAT and GPA are at the median or lower?

I would really appreciate some guidance here. Thanks!


If it is a school that interviews, I would expect that question in the interview process. If I were reading your application, I would wonder what happened, but if you are willing to give a reason to the law school, then be prepared to give it to them (but not on here!). If they like your application otherwise, they'd want to know all of the information before making a decision.
Good luck!

Cheers,
KB

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:48 pm

Jrr13 wrote:When I receive a reply from an admissions rep for submitting extra material or asking about campus tours and such, should I email back a quick thank you? I do appreciate their replies, but I know that they are busy and get hundreds of emails probably


If their email gave you some information or answered a question, then it would be appropriate to say thank you, but if it was just a reply saying "thanks for submitting we will add it to your file" there is no need to reply.

Cheers,
KB


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