Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:44 pm

June 10th LSAT

If you are freaked out, anxious, need a distraction, whatever you can call my work phone (found at my website) and I am happy to talk you down from the ledge. I have literally done this hundreds of times and a number of people have said it helped. I've even blocked off my Monday morning calendar for this.


This was actually more fun than I thought it would be so I'll do it again in October. I hope everyone flattened the test today!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:45 am

Just took the LSAT? Here is a guest blog by someone who has been there on how to survive the test score wait.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/

Dolphine
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Dolphine » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:44 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:This is a bit of a dead period of advice so I have started tweeting some not publicly available data:
https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult
If this is somehow publicly available let me know and I'll feel stupid and retract my self-aggrandizing promotion.

Thanks for posting the stats. I recall seeing a breakdown of the # of peeps in LSAT score ranges for the 2011? cycle but haven't seen it for any other years. Is there a reason LSAC doesn't make this data publicly available? If you're able to, can you share the breakdown?


Ok, perhaps that data is now available somewhere.

The data was "leaked" last year too. If I remember correctly, the LSAC had a link that was suppose to be password protected and it wasn't. (Its now fixed). Last years leak had the specific number of applicants. So using your numbers we can approximate the number of applicants in each group this cycle....I already did it.
< 140 - 3854
140–144 -4899
145–149 -7690
150–154 -9960
155–159 -9961
160–164 - 7742
165–169 -4760
170–174 -1923
175–180 -516

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:31 pm

The data was "leaked" last year too. If I remember correctly, the LSAC had a link that was suppose to be password protected and it wasn't. (Its now fixed). Last years leak had the specific number of applicants. So using your numbers we can approximate the number of applicants in each group this cycle....I already did it.
< 140 - 3854
140–144 -4899
145–149 -7690
150–154 -9960
155–159 -9961
160–164 - 7742
165–169 -4760
170–174 -1923
175–180 -516


You are close:

< 140 4,292
140–144 5,359
145–149 8,440
150–154 10,606
155–159 10,416
160–164 7,702
165–169 4,896
170–174 1,969
175–180 525

Dolphine
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Dolphine » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:04 am

Here's what was leaked last year and some more info for any fellow admission nut courtsey of LSAT Blog

http://imgur.com/jG525c4

Eta: grrr cant post images yet.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:17 am

Dolphine wrote:Here's what was leaked last year and some more info for any fellow admission nut courtsey of LSAT Blog

http://imgur.com/jG525c4

Eta: grrr cant post images yet.


I should sell LSAT Blog all of the classified data I have and then go check into a hotel room in Hong Kong.

Dolphine
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Dolphine » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:40 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
Dolphine wrote:Here's what was leaked last year and some more info for any fellow admission nut courtsey of LSAT Blog

http://imgur.com/jG525c4

Eta: grrr cant post images yet.


I should sell LSAT Blog all of the classified data I have and then go check into a hotel room in Hong Kong.

Very similar to my plan if I don't get a job and sallie mae comes calling, WUSTL even lets me do my last semester abroad if I want to. (Now would be a great time to plug your legal employment services).

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby moshei24 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:43 am

Hi!

Just a little background on me. I'm an Orthodox Jew whose numbers are 165/170/3.49. I am debating between those four options and my time to decide is rather limited.

Until about an hour ago, I had decided I would attend Duke. But the more I learn about the area, the more I come to see that is isn't really a viable place for an Orthodox Jew. Getting meat and finding places to eat for the Sabbath and Holidays isn't too realistic, and a car would 100% be required. It probably is somewhat realistic, but the whole "law school experience" would be extremely lacking, as I wouldn't be able to have such a vibrant social life in that area. Basically, the QoL in Duke would be awful. In terms of money, there is a small possibility I get some need-based aid, but my gut tells me I probably won't and I'll be lucky if I get anything since it's so late.

As for GULC, there is a decent chance I get some aid. I don't know how much but it would probably be in the $15K/yr range. GULC has a solid Orthodox Jewish life, as DC is a big city, but it isn't the same as NYC. Job prospects in GULC aren't bad, but they aren't on the same level as Duke. But GULC is very livable for an Orthodox Jew. I also like the idea of working in public interest in DC. However, that isn't real money. I'll update you guys when I get more info on a GULC scholarship, if there is one.

Fordham is offering me $25K/yr and they would have the best Jewish life, as my family and friends are in NYC, and, well, it's NYC. Though, they have the worst job prospects of the three. My hope would be to work hard and end up on top of my class and possibly transfer. Yes, I understand I cannot assume ending up on the top of my class. There is no guarantee and I get that.

The last option would be to reapply early next cycle. I applied at the end of January in this cycle and only got a 170 on the February LSAT. Question, though, is: What are my odds at getting accepted ED at NYU or Penn. Which would be my best bet? I would definitely prefer NYU, and I'm assuming applying ED at Columbia would be rather pointless. I would spend my year off working and getting my applications in at the beginning of the cycle. I would also possibly tutor the LSAT.

I, however, would not retake the LSAT, as I have already taken it 3 times (one "Cancel").

What would all say is my best bet given my situation? I really appreciate all of your responses and advice.

Thanks so much!

-Mo

PS - CoL isn't a real factor between Fordham and Duke, as they will end up being about the same. Also, I'm not really sure what kind of law I will end up going into, but my plan has always been ADA for 3-5 years, and then Criminal Defense. BigLaw tends to be a good option, though.

I'm currently pursuing WL at CLS, NYU, Michigan, and Cornell. Hopefully, I'll get in to one of those places.


If you don't have time to give me your opinion, I'll understand.

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sublime
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby sublime » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:45 am

..

moshei24
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby moshei24 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:48 am

sublime wrote:I know this would be shocking, but you could just, you know, not eat meat.


It's not just meat. It's also cheese and decent food in general. Plus on the Sabbath and Holidays, I always eat meat. It's the life I know. Yes, I could not eat meat. Yes, I could be a hermit, but that's what I mean - TERRIBLE QoL. Wouldn't that negatively affect how I do in school?

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby sublime » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:54 am

..

moshei24
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby moshei24 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:00 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
sublime wrote:I know this would be shocking, but you could just, you know, not eat meat.


It's not just meat. It's also cheese and decent food in general. Plus on the Sabbath and Holidays, I always eat meat. It's the life I know. Yes, I could not eat meat. Yes, I could be a hermit, but that's what I mean - TERRIBLE QoL. Wouldn't that negatively affect how I do in school?



Happiness is an underrated factor on TLS, generally imo.

Although this is what I was more getting at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_vegetarianism (this includes cheese).



Right, so that would be going against my nature, and even so, all the holidays and Sabbath are a big issue. If those issues weren't there, I would likely be able to survive. But combining them makes the major issue. Fact is that meat has always been part of my diet, and I tend to be very sensitive in terms of not eating properly that it bugs me and tends to take me off my game. Yeah.

moshei24
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby moshei24 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:06 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
sublime wrote:I know this would be shocking, but you could just, you know, not eat meat.


It's not just meat. It's also cheese and decent food in general. Plus on the Sabbath and Holidays, I always eat meat. It's the life I know. Yes, I could not eat meat. Yes, I could be a hermit, but that's what I mean - TERRIBLE QoL. Wouldn't that negatively affect how I do in school?



Happiness is an underrated factor on TLS, generally imo.

Although this is what I was more getting at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_vegetarianism (this includes cheese).



And so you think that happiness should be taken more into account than it is on here?

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby sublime » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:10 am

..

moshei24
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby moshei24 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:13 am

sublime wrote:I think that because it is so hard to quantify, especially by someone that does not actually know you, it tends to be ignored in favor of data like COA and employment stats.

Just try to be honest with yourself about it. And try to figure out if being where you prefer being is worth $XX,XXX (be sure to include interest). How much it will be weighted will be different for each individual. Be careful that you are not just rationalizing doing what you want to do, even if it is a bad decision though. Really think and introspect on it.



I hear what you're saying. Until tonight, I was set on Duke purely because of job prospects, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how much other I will be sacrificing.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby sublime » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:19 am

..

moshei24
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby moshei24 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:23 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
sublime wrote:I think that because it is so hard to quantify, especially by someone that does not actually know you, it tends to be ignored in favor of data like COA and employment stats.

Just try to be honest with yourself about it. And try to figure out if being where you prefer being is worth $XX,XXX (be sure to include interest). How much it will be weighted will be different for each individual. Be careful that you are not just rationalizing doing what you want to do, even if it is a bad decision though. Really think and introspect on it.



I hear what you're saying. Until tonight, I was set on Duke purely because of job prospects, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how much other I will be sacrificing.



Yea, I am not going to tell you what to do, but I have a good friend who was not Orthodox, but went to Jewish School all his life and was the son of a Rabbi, and you could tell how important community was to him and his culture, so I have some point of reference.

Have you looked to see if there is Hillel on the Duke Campus (I am sure there is). Maybe you can give them a call and see what they think.

Edit: http://www.hillel.org/HillelApps/JLOC/C ... cyId=17362

http://studentaffairs.duke.edu/jewishlife


Oh, I've been speaking to people from Duke, Orthodox families and pretty much all the Orthodox people there. There's barely any, and Hillel isn't really Orthodox. The issue is mainly consistency with finding kosher meat, and the pain and inconvenience it would be and also with holidays and the Sabbath.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:08 am

Very similar to my plan if I don't get a job and sallie mae comes calling, WUSTL even lets me do my last semester abroad if I want to. (Now would be a great time to plug your legal employment services)


Dolphin, nice timing. I am partnering with an industry expert who has been at BigLaw and also responsible for OCI at a law school. Also, I've been working with a video company doing all kinds of admissions and career advice talks that we are going to put online. Indeed, for those that filled out my survey, I headed your advice and which ones to do, and lowered to price point from $99 to $37. I'll have these up in a month or so, and they will keep rolling out from there.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:12 pm

moshei24 wrote:
sublime wrote:I think that because it is so hard to quantify, especially by someone that does not actually know you, it tends to be ignored in favor of data like COA and employment stats.

Just try to be honest with yourself about it. And try to figure out if being where you prefer being is worth $XX,XXX (be sure to include interest). How much it will be weighted will be different for each individual. Be careful that you are not just rationalizing doing what you want to do, even if it is a bad decision though. Really think and introspect on it.



I hear what you're saying. Until tonight, I was set on Duke purely because of job prospects, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how much other I will be sacrificing.


Moshei, I agree with Sublime that (1) only you can best answer this give your background -- or at least I recognize that I can not be of much help here, and (2) I think too often static USNWR rank is fine-pointed in making matriculation decision. If you are miserable where you are your grades will likely suffer, so try to go to the best place given what you are looking for THAT YOU WILL BE COMFORTABLE AND HAPPY AT.

I hope this help!

Mike

moshei24
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby moshei24 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:18 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
sublime wrote:I think that because it is so hard to quantify, especially by someone that does not actually know you, it tends to be ignored in favor of data like COA and employment stats.

Just try to be honest with yourself about it. And try to figure out if being where you prefer being is worth $XX,XXX (be sure to include interest). How much it will be weighted will be different for each individual. Be careful that you are not just rationalizing doing what you want to do, even if it is a bad decision though. Really think and introspect on it.



I hear what you're saying. Until tonight, I was set on Duke purely because of job prospects, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how much other I will be sacrificing.


Moshei, I agree with Sublime that (1) only you can best answer this give your background -- or at least I recognize that I can not be of much help here, and (2) I think too often static USNWR rank is fine-pointed in making matriculation decision. If you are miserable where you are your grades will likely suffer, so try to go to the best place given what you are looking for THAT YOU WILL BE COMFORTABLE AND HAPPY AT.

I hope this help!

Mike



Thanks, Mike!

It's nice to have your perspective on this. I actually got offered 20k/yr at GULC this morning, so I'll probably end up there, as it's much more realistic to live there than Durham. Make sense? GULC isn't as bad as the people on this forum tend to make it seem, right?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:33 pm

It's nice to have your perspective on this. I actually got offered 20k/yr at GULC this morning, so I'll probably end up there, as it's much more realistic to live there than Durham. Make sense? GULC isn't as bad as the people on this forum tend to make it seem, right?[/quote]

'Grats! I'd say the vast majority of law schools, perhaps all, get trashed on here from time to time and understandably they are good fits for some and not good fits for others. This sounds like a good fit for you, with the icing on the cake coming this morning. Good luck!

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Clearly
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Clearly » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:37 pm

You're not looking for biglaw right?

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Cylonhunter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:13 am

Thank you for taking questions! I'm a non-traditional URM that is currently waitlisted at my first choice school. My LSAC GPA is very poor (sub 3.0) and my LSAT score is at their 75 percentile. I have two questions related to my waitlisted application.

1. I am not happy with my current GPA addendum, would it make sense to swap it out for a new one?

2. Would submitting a diversity statement help my application at this juncture? I did not submit a diversity statement with my original application.

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sublime
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby sublime » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:49 pm

..

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:46 pm

sublime wrote:Hey, what could WUSTL's motivation be to giving full rides to already deposited below 25th GPA/Median LSAT candidates, or anybody that they already have a good chance of getting? I don't really get it. :?:


Sublime, et al.

I can't say because I don't know. I have received a good deal of emails on this since yesterday, including from admissions officers at law schools. My guess is that they may have just received a very large unrestricted "gift" and perhaps see this as a strategic year to use it since there likely will be a good deal of losers and only a few winners in the admissions arms race. Indeed, I think it is possible they have had a reserve budget for just this opportunity and perhaps now have decided to employ it, based on the data they have. This is purely guess-work by me but this might be the strategic thinking...


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