Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

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PantoroB
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:03 pm

Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby PantoroB » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:14 pm

Post removed
Last edited by PantoroB on Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AnonymousApplicant
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:00 pm

Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby AnonymousApplicant » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:58 pm

Hi all,

I've only two basic questions.

First, for the resume that I submit to law schools, is it recommended that I list a job that I held over this past summer for only about a month, and which I quit in September to study full-time for the LSAT? Someone I was speaking to about this suggested that I did, to show that the resume gap is there for a legitimate reason and not because I simply couldn't find a job.

Second, broadly speaking, how much more difficult is this cycle anticipated to be as compared to last cycle? I don't know if all of the data has been released yet, but is it still the case that high-scorers on the LSAT are still avoiding applying to law school, and that whatever increase there is is due to an influx of low-scorers?

ZVBXRPL
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:15 pm

Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby ZVBXRPL » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:49 pm

Karen,

During my BA, I was a non-degree student at a school I eventually got my M.A. at. Should i list this on resume? Also, part of the Masters program was at a law school, thought the granting institution was not a ls. How should I write this on my resume? Also, one of the questions on application says "have you attended any law school"? Is this yes or no?

Thanks!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:36 am

AnonymousApplicant wrote:Hi all,

I've only two basic questions.

First, for the resume that I submit to law schools, is it recommended that I list a job that I held over this past summer for only about a month, and which I quit in September to study full-time for the LSAT? Someone I was speaking to about this suggested that I did, to show that the resume gap is there for a legitimate reason and not because I simply couldn't find a job.

You will need to in the application for most schools anyway, as well as "reason for leaving" so, yes.


Second, broadly speaking, how much more difficult is this cycle anticipated to be as compared to last cycle? I don't know if all of the data has been released yet, but is it still the case that high-scorers on the LSAT are still avoiding applying to law school, and that whatever increase there is is due to an influx of low-scorers?


Ask, and ye shall receive [a blog] http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/applic ... -up-cycle/

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:03 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:Karen,

During my BA, I was a non-degree student at a school I eventually got my M.A. at. Should i list this on resume? Also, part of the Masters program was at a law school, thought the granting institution was not a ls. How should I write this on my resume? Also, one of the questions on application says "have you attended any law school"? Is this yes or no?

Thanks!


When you list your MA degree school to the resume, you can add a bullet indicating the additional coursework. You should probably list the school in the "education" section of the application form too -- in addition to the Masters program just to be safe.

You never attended law school - you took classes at a law school towards the degree. But I would recommend that you email the school to be sure that is their interpretation as well. It is super important to be completely transparent in the admissions process, so you may want to just check with them to be sure.

Cheers,
KB

lumen
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:15 pm

Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby lumen » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:23 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
AnonymousApplicant wrote:Hi all,

I've only two basic questions.

First, for the resume that I submit to law schools, is it recommended that I list a job that I held over this past summer for only about a month, and which I quit in September to study full-time for the LSAT? Someone I was speaking to about this suggested that I did, to show that the resume gap is there for a legitimate reason and not because I simply couldn't find a job.

You will need to in the application for most schools anyway, as well as "reason for leaving" so, yes.


Second, broadly speaking, how much more difficult is this cycle anticipated to be as compared to last cycle? I don't know if all of the data has been released yet, but is it still the case that high-scorers on the LSAT are still avoiding applying to law school, and that whatever increase there is is due to an influx of low-scorers?


Ask, and ye shall receive [a blog] http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/applic ... -up-cycle/

Mike,

I've had seven part time jobs in college. One weekend job I've held throughout, but some others were at an electronics store and at a pizza shop (in beginning of college).

1. Do I have to list all of them them on resume?

2. Should I specify that the weekend job was just during the weekend? It may be confusing otherwise...

3. 2 page resume. Good or no good?

Thanks! And I like the pic of ur dog i saw on other thread!!! ;)

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby haus » Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:02 pm

lumen wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
AnonymousApplicant wrote:Hi all,

I've only two basic questions.

First, for the resume that I submit to law schools, is it recommended that I list a job that I held over this past summer for only about a month, and which I quit in September to study full-time for the LSAT? Someone I was speaking to about this suggested that I did, to show that the resume gap is there for a legitimate reason and not because I simply couldn't find a job.

You will need to in the application for most schools anyway, as well as "reason for leaving" so, yes.


Second, broadly speaking, how much more difficult is this cycle anticipated to be as compared to last cycle? I don't know if all of the data has been released yet, but is it still the case that high-scorers on the LSAT are still avoiding applying to law school, and that whatever increase there is is due to an influx of low-scorers?


Ask, and ye shall receive [a blog] http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/applic ... -up-cycle/

Mike,

I've had seven part time jobs in college. One weekend job I've held throughout, but some others were at an electronics store and at a pizza shop (in beginning of college).

1. Do I have to list all of them them on resume?

2. Should I specify that the weekend job was just during the weekend? It may be confusing otherwise...

3. 2 page resume. Good or no good?

Thanks! And I like the pic of ur dog i saw on other thread!!! ;)

For what it is worth, I felt guilty about using two pages.

I had a bit over a quarter century of work experience, including military, private sector, gov, plus a graduate degree and several interesting side projects.

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slizerd
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby slizerd » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:37 pm

haus wrote:
lumen wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
AnonymousApplicant wrote:Hi all,

I've only two basic questions.

First, for the resume that I submit to law schools, is it recommended that I list a job that I held over this past summer for only about a month, and which I quit in September to study full-time for the LSAT? Someone I was speaking to about this suggested that I did, to show that the resume gap is there for a legitimate reason and not because I simply couldn't find a job.

You will need to in the application for most schools anyway, as well as "reason for leaving" so, yes.


Second, broadly speaking, how much more difficult is this cycle anticipated to be as compared to last cycle? I don't know if all of the data has been released yet, but is it still the case that high-scorers on the LSAT are still avoiding applying to law school, and that whatever increase there is is due to an influx of low-scorers?


Ask, and ye shall receive [a blog] http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/applic ... -up-cycle/

Mike,

I've had seven part time jobs in college. One weekend job I've held throughout, but some others were at an electronics store and at a pizza shop (in beginning of college).

1. Do I have to list all of them them on resume?

2. Should I specify that the weekend job was just during the weekend? It may be confusing otherwise...

3. 2 page resume. Good or no good?

Thanks! And I like the pic of ur dog i saw on other thread!!! ;)

For what it is worth, I felt guilty about using two pages.

I had a bit over a quarter century of work experience, including military, private sector, gov, plus a graduate degree and several interesting side projects.


I'm coming from an MA program, so I'm using my Curriculum Vitae instead of a resume; almost all of the schools I'm applying state "resume OR CV" in their instructions, so I don't think a 2 page resume is a huge deal

Edit: someone please, please, correct me if I'm wrong about CV being (not) frowned upon


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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:58 pm

Yes or no to liking the new blog format? and thank you!

http://spivey-consulting.ghost.io/

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Nagster5
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Nagster5 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:23 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Yes or no to liking the new blog format? and thank you!

http://spivey-consulting.ghost.io/


Won't display for me (government computer running IE9)

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:37 pm

Nagster5 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Yes or no to liking the new blog format? and thank you!

http://spivey-consulting.ghost.io/


Won't display for me (government computer running IE9)


Well that would be a problem :) Thanks I will look into it.

KSbear
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KSbear » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:21 am

Hi Mike and Karen,

First some background info about me: K-JD, now a senior, engineering & social science double major from a top 20 private college, LSDAS GPA 3.81, LSAT 172, non-URM

Two years ago I took a summer course at a D.C. college just so I could stay in eastern coast for a summer. However, halfway through the course I had a family emergency and had to go back home immediately. I dropped the course through the school's online system, jumped on the flight home and never thought about it for the next two years. However, today I just found out that I did not actually drop that class, because apparently to drop a class at that school, I was not only required to do it online, BUT ALSO to turn in a physical form to its summer school office. Anyway, I ended up with a C- on record. Although I've never used that course for my transcript, and as much as I hate to do it, I know I have to send that transcript to LSAC. So here come my questions:

1. I already turned in several applications and even got two offers from T14 schools. What do I do about those? Shall I withdraw my applications, or maybe just update my GPA by submitting that transcript? Shall I explain the situation to schools that already admitted me/ ask them to rescind the offer? I swear I didn't know I have this record until today, and I would have never omitted it on purpose had I known before submitting my applications. I have no idea why my applications were shown to be complete even when I didn't include that transcript.

2. By hand calculation, that C- will lower my LSDAS GPA by about 0.06~7, which will leave me with a 3.74~5. Columbia is my dream school. With 3.74 and 172, do you think I still have a shot?

PLEASE HELP me I really don't know what to do :(

Zwiff
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Zwiff » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:19 am

1. Some applications have "Recommenders" section where I can list the names/information of my recommenders. What is the point of this section if law schools will be receiving my recommendations with the recommenders' information through the LSAC anyways? These sections are not necessary fields I must fill out, can I just check "This section does not apply to me"?

2. Question about Duke's optional essay - one of the optional essays is,

Optional Essay 1: You may submit an essay providing additional information about why you have chosen to apply to law school in general and Duke in particular. We are interested in the factors that have prompted your interest in a legal career and the ways in which you think Duke can further that interest. The optional essays must be your own work. This means the ideas and expressions originated with you, and you wrote all drafts and the final product. It does not preclude asking family members, friends, pre-law advisors, and others for proofreading assistance or general feedback.

I address my future career/why law school in my personal statement, but do not say anything about why Duke. Would it be alright to sort of quickly gloss over those why law factors and focus everything on why Duke particularly?

Thanks for your help!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:42 am

KSbear wrote:Hi Mike and Karen,

First some background info about me: K-JD, now a senior, engineering & social science double major from a top 20 private college, LSDAS GPA 3.81, LSAT 172, non-URM

Two years ago I took a summer course at a D.C. college just so I could stay in eastern coast for a summer. However, halfway through the course I had a family emergency and had to go back home immediately. I dropped the course through the school's online system, jumped on the flight home and never thought about it for the next two years. However, today I just found out that I did not actually drop that class, because apparently to drop a class at that school, I was not only required to do it online, BUT ALSO to turn in a physical form to its summer school office. Anyway, I ended up with a C- on record. Although I've never used that course for my transcript, and as much as I hate to do it, I know I have to send that transcript to LSAC. So here come my questions:

1. I already turned in several applications and even got two offers from T14 schools. What do I do about those? Shall I withdraw my applications, or maybe just update my GPA by submitting that transcript? Shall I explain the situation to schools that already admitted me/ ask them to rescind the offer? I swear I didn't know I have this record until today, and I would have never omitted it on purpose had I known before submitting my applications. I have no idea why my applications were shown to be complete even when I didn't include that transcript.

2. By hand calculation, that C- will lower my LSDAS GPA by about 0.06~7, which will leave me with a 3.74~5. Columbia is my dream school. With 3.74 and 172, do you think I still have a shot?

PLEASE HELP me I really don't know what to do :(


For (1), just send an email (or call! -- why don't people ever call and ask admissions what THEY want you to do these day? Ask to speak to an admissions officer. Heck when I want a nicer hotel room I do it in person versus taking the easier way out and emailing or calling. And this is infinitely more important to you), describe the exact situation. I suspect you are fine and nothing will be rescinded. Unless there is more to the story this is very minor to me.

2. Likely, but hard to say until we have the Dec data from LSAC. Just be upbeat and patient with them. I swear it helps!

Mike

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salander
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby salander » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:13 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Yes or no to liking the new blog format? and thank you!

http://spivey-consulting.ghost.io/

Certainly reminds me more of "modern" blogging styles on sites like Medium, but I have to say I like your current blog format more. It's very practical, still stylish, and allows easy access to the archives. I also like seeing a longer preview of the blog posts. The only things I'd add to the current blog format are an "Older Posts" link that lets you sequentially go back in time, a search function, and categorization by tags.

KSbear
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KSbear » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:41 pm

Hi Mike, thank you so much for the reply. It makes me feel much better. I searched for relevant information online after I found out the problem and was freaked out by this post viewtopic.php?t=160541. A few follow-up questions:

1. If you're an AO from the law school that already admitted me, and I called you about my situation, how would you deal with it? How serious do you consider this mistake to be? (more like a lie about academic misconduct, or a misspelling of the school's name on why essay?)

2. Why my applications were shown to be complete without that transcript? Do LSAC ever find out if an applicant inadvertently forget to send a non-degree related transcript (and like in my case, not shown on my primary transcript from the institution granting my undergrad degree, no credits transferred, didn't know it exists at all)? If so, how and when? If it does find out, will LSAC notify the applicant about the missing transcript at all?

2. Presumably, what if I don't find out that I have this transcript until after entering law school? In the post linked above, people say that a student would be expelled from law school if his/her academic record is found to be inconsistent with his/her application. Is that true? I understand how applicants who omitted transcripts on purpose should be penalized, but how about those like me, who only did so accidentally?

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate your help!

MikeSpivey wrote:
KSbear wrote:Hi Mike and Karen,

First some background info about me: K-JD, now a senior, engineering & social science double major from a top 20 private college, LSDAS GPA 3.81, LSAT 172, non-URM

Two years ago I took a summer course at a D.C. college just so I could stay in eastern coast for a summer. However, halfway through the course I had a family emergency and had to go back home immediately. I dropped the course through the school's online system, jumped on the flight home and never thought about it for the next two years. However, today I just found out that I did not actually drop that class, because apparently to drop a class at that school, I was not only required to do it online, BUT ALSO to turn in a physical form to its summer school office. Anyway, I ended up with a C- on record. Although I've never used that course for my transcript, and as much as I hate to do it, I know I have to send that transcript to LSAC. So here come my questions:

1. I already turned in several applications and even got two offers from T14 schools. What do I do about those? Shall I withdraw my applications, or maybe just update my GPA by submitting that transcript? Shall I explain the situation to schools that already admitted me/ ask them to rescind the offer? I swear I didn't know I have this record until today, and I would have never omitted it on purpose had I known before submitting my applications. I have no idea why my applications were shown to be complete even when I didn't include that transcript.

2. By hand calculation, that C- will lower my LSDAS GPA by about 0.06~7, which will leave me with a 3.74~5. Columbia is my dream school. With 3.74 and 172, do you think I still have a shot?

PLEASE HELP me I really don't know what to do :(


For (1), just send an email (or call! -- why don't people ever call and ask admissions what THEY want you to do these day? Ask to speak to an admissions officer. Heck when I want a nicer hotel room I do it in person versus taking the easier way out and emailing or calling. And this is infinitely more important to you), describe the exact situation. I suspect you are fine and nothing will be rescinded. Unless there is more to the story this is very minor to me.

2. Likely, but hard to say until we have the Dec data from LSAC. Just be upbeat and patient with them. I swear it helps!

Mike

omd3117
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby omd3117 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:05 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Yes or no to liking the new blog format? and thank you!

http://spivey-consulting.ghost.io/



It looks neat, but I prefer the older version. Maybe it's because I'm a creature of habit. 8)

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pterodactyls
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby pterodactyls » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:33 pm

I was wondering if you could expand a little about retaking the LSAT in February for the current cycle (after submission). On the google doc of compiled Q&A, it was stated that top 6 schools do likely consider February scores, even if they claim not to.

So,
Per se someone takes December LSAT and scores in the 170-172 range, with a ~3.8 GPA. Goal of HYS or top 6. Submits applications by February 1st deadline, but considers taking February LSAT.

My question are,
1. Will law schools know that the student is registered for February? Will this affect the timeliness in which the application is reviewed (will the school wait until March to give that student a decision?).
2. If the student specifically submits his/her applications before registering for February, will the law schools still receive notification when that student registers?
3. Will this affect the student's chances of being admitted/waitlisted? So, if the school was considering admitting the student, will they now wait instead? And alternatively, if they would have denied the student, will they now wait?

I appreciate any advice you could give. Not planning to retake in February, just want to know what my options are. I'm pretty set on applying this cycle for personal reasons.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:54 pm

Hi everyone:

Sorry we are a bit slow in responding -- this is the height of our busiest season AND, because I apparently like not sleeping, we just went live with our new website:

Check it out at:

www.spiveyconsulting.com

Due to the feedback on here (thanks for that!) we are going to keep the blog format but are going to work on tagging and categorizing topics. This takes a lot of time so bear with us.

Also, in the process of creating a new website my web expert/buddy insisted I upgrade to Windows 10 from 7. Now I have the new version of TLS and I had it set on the old version. Does anyone know how fix that? Does anyone (HAUS???) know when I will stop hating Word 10 versus 7? I'm not exactly a tech adapter.

Thanks all! Answers to your questions coming soon I promise!

-Mike

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ltbenn
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby ltbenn » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:00 pm



but why does your fox look so sad?! :cry: :cry: :cry:

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:33 pm

ltbenn wrote:


but why does your fox look so sad?! :cry: :cry: :cry:


He is thoughtful, not sad.

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ltbenn
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby ltbenn » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:36 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
ltbenn wrote:


but why does your fox look so sad?! :cry: :cry: :cry:


He is thoughtful, not sad.


IMHO he looks tragically determined -- like you just kicked him in the stomach and now he's plotting his revenge.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:37 pm

ltbenn wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
ltbenn wrote:


but why does your fox look so sad?! :cry: :cry: :cry:


He is thoughtful, not sad.


IMHO he looks tragically determined -- like you just kicked him in the stomach and now he's plotting his revenge.


Precisely how we do our consulting.

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ltbenn
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby ltbenn » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:53 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
ltbenn wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
ltbenn wrote:


but why does your fox look so sad?! :cry: :cry: :cry:


He is thoughtful, not sad.


IMHO he looks tragically determined -- like you just kicked him in the stomach and now he's plotting his revenge.


Precisely how we do our consulting.


I would've gone more for something like this guy:
Image

eyes on the prize and ready to pounce.


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