Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:54 pm

Helioze wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
jetsfan1 wrote:Hey all,

I was just looking over my academic summary report and was wondering about the average LSAT/GPA they show for each school. Since you guys have all seen thousands of these I was wondering what you would consider a high average LSAT? What is the average average GPA? What type of average GPA would indicate grade inflation? What would indicate grade deflation? Thanks again, you guys are the best :D


Keep in mind that this GPA is based on the number of students applying to law school, so it is somewhat self-selected group and may not reflect the school's average GPA for everyone in the school. I can't really remember the LSAT, and quite frankly that matters less on this type of comparison.
As far as GPA, in my experience, this number has gone up over the years (indicating grade inflation), but there are a few standouts in my mind. The average GPA (also known as GCM) also comes with a rank where the applicant stands in relation to her college peers who are also applying to law school, so the GPA alone doesn't help as much as both numbers together. I don't remember exact numbers, but Harvard had a very high average GPA but Princeton's was lower, reflecting their stance against grade inflation. The lowest average that I remember are from the military academies: West Point, Annapolis, etc.
To illustrate what I mean (and I really don't remember the numbers, so this is NOT accurate - just for illustration) a West Point graduate with a 3.5 is likely to be around the 75th or 80th percentile and West Point has around a 3.2 GCM. A Harvard graduate with a 3.5 is likely to be in the 35th or 40th percentile and Harvard has a 3.6 GCM.
I am not sure that I've answered your question, but you might find that interesting - I do!

Cheers,
Karen



Where would someone be able to view this GCM data?


It is on the Transcript Analysis section of your Academic Summary Report that you get from LSAC. Look for "GPA College Mean"

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jettison63
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Postby jettison63 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:04 pm

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monceau
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby monceau » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:05 pm

Hi everyone,

First off I just wanted to say thank you so much for taking the time to answer all these questions so openly and thoughtfully; it's been of great help to me starting off in my admissions process!

My question for you all has to do with letters of rec. I've asked for one from a supervisor at an internship. She agreed to do it, but asked that I write the letter myself then send it back to her before she edits it and sends it off under her name. I've seen a lot of conflicting advice on this site regarding writing your own LOR, especially with regards to how ethical it is and how easy it is for adcomms to recognize that it was written by the student. Could you all potentially weigh in on this issue? Thanks so much!!

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procell
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby procell » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:40 am

I have a sibling who is currently a student at another faculty (ie. not the law school) for grad school at an HYSCCN that I am applying to, and I would love to go to the same school as them. Is this worth mentioning in my application in an addendum?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:00 am

procell wrote:I have a sibling who is currently a student at another faculty (ie. not the law school) for grad school at an HYSCCN that I am applying to, and I would love to go to the same school as them. Is this worth mentioning in my application in an addendum?


Yep out it in a "why x" statement. But it shouldn't be the only reason you mention, fyi.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:07 am

In the next 3-5 days I am going to write a blog for you all that I think might be the most important blog we've written in a long time. It will be on "what people say when you ask them for Personal Statement advice" ....(and they have no law school admissions experience). Because they almost always give the dead wrong macro level advice and I think it kills so many of these essays. At the micro level, sentence structure, word choice, etc etc they are fine (because presumably you are asking a smart/mindful/well-intentioned/awesome person for their help). But the high level advice always fits into just one or two categories and it is always wrong. So please please stay tuned for this.

In the meantime, here is a blog we wrote for Powerscore that is now also up on our website, on "To ED or not to ED" ie: early decision. Enjoy!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:07 am

WE NEED A FANTASY FOOTBALL COMMISIONER. Going twice!

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procell
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby procell » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:04 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
procell wrote:I have a sibling who is currently a student at another faculty (ie. not the law school) for grad school at an HYSCCN that I am applying to, and I would love to go to the same school as them. Is this worth mentioning in my application in an addendum?


Yep out it in a "why x" statement. But it shouldn't be the only reason you mention, fyi.


Thanks for the answer Mike. Really appreciate it.

I already have a diversity statement prepared, so would you suggest sending in two essays? Or by "why x," did you mean a few sentences (as opposed to a full fledged essay) in a separate addendum?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:24 am

procell wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
procell wrote:I have a sibling who is currently a student at another faculty (ie. not the law school) for grad school at an HYSCCN that I am applying to, and I would love to go to the same school as them. Is this worth mentioning in my application in an addendum?


Yep out it in a "why x" statement. But it shouldn't be the only reason you mention, fyi.


Thanks for the answer Mike. Really appreciate it.

I already have a diversity statement prepared, so would you suggest sending in two essays? Or by "why x," did you mean a few sentences (as opposed to a full fledged essay) in a separate addendum?


Just an addenda why they are your top school. This is a very fair reason but add a few more.

Scalvert
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Scalvert » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:18 pm

After reading through the grade inflation info and looking at my LSAC report, would the fact that my GPA ranks 83rd percentile at my UG, while my LSAT score is 93rd percentile for my UG, indicate that my UG is grade-inflating? (I'm assuming there's more to it than that- I'm not a STEM major and I attend a large public university in the South if that matters).

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:56 pm

Scalvert wrote:After reading through the grade inflation info and looking at my LSAC report, would the fact that my GPA ranks 83rd percentile at my UG, while my LSAT score is 93rd percentile for my UG, indicate that my UG is grade-inflating? (I'm assuming there's more to it than that- I'm not a STEM major and I attend a large public university in the South if that matters).


That would not necessarily be an indication of grade inflation. The school's GPA College Mean will be a fairly decent indication of grade inflation. For example, a 3.0 would indicate no grade inflation and a 3.6 would be very likely inflated. Most will probably fall in the middle and your grades will be viewed in that context.

Cheers,
KB

Scalvert
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Scalvert » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:02 pm

Thanks Karen. The mean GPA listed on the report is 3.36, but that is the mean GPA of those who tested on campus, and not the UG as a whole, is this correct? If not, is a mean of 3.36 considered high?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:03 pm

Hey all you fantasy football boppers out there:

We have a volunteer for a commish!

Now we need a time and I'm going to guess Sunday evening is best. So who could do 6pm Mountain Time Sunday evening? Chime in and I will keep a running count.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:07 pm

Scalvert wrote:Thanks Karen. The mean GPA listed on the report is 3.36, but that is the mean GPA of those who tested on campus, and not the UG as a whole, is this correct? If not, is a mean of 3.36 considered high?


That number represents all applicants who list your school as their degree granting school who took the test withing a few years (I think it's three years), so while it is not representative of the entire school or graduating class, it does have statistical significance.
3.36 is not high.

Scalvert
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Scalvert » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:13 pm

Thank you! I was trying to figure out if that information would hurt me in any way, but it appears that it won't.

Pacman
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Pacman » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:11 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Hey all you fantasy football boppers out there:

We have a volunteer for a commish!

Now we need a time and I'm going to guess Sunday evening is best. So who could do 6pm Mountain Time Sunday evening? Chime in and I will keep a running count.


8pm Eastern on Sunday sounds great, I'm in!

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storpappa
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby storpappa » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:49 am

Pacman wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Hey all you fantasy football boppers out there:

We have a volunteer for a commish!

Now we need a time and I'm going to guess Sunday evening is best. So who could do 6pm Mountain Time Sunday evening? Chime in and I will keep a running count.


8pm Eastern on Sunday sounds great, I'm in!



As the aforementioned volunteer commish, can I propose a change in date/time to Tuesday 8pm EST (Or 9:30pm EST if that's too early for folks)? I have another league that drafts Sunday and it's an all-day fantasy-football-palooza.

Also - everyone interested in joining, please send me your email in a private message and I'll add you to the league. It's head-to-head, so we need even numbers, and I can accommodate up to 20 teams.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:41 am

storpappa wrote:
Pacman wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Hey all you fantasy football boppers out there:

We have a volunteer for a commish!

Now we need a time and I'm going to guess Sunday evening is best. So who could do 6pm Mountain Time Sunday evening? Chime in and I will keep a running count.


8pm Eastern on Sunday sounds great, I'm in!



As the aforementioned volunteer commish, can I propose a change in date/time to Tuesday 8pm EST (Or 9:30pm EST if that's too early for folks)? I have another league that drafts Sunday and it's an all-day fantasy-football-palooza.

Also - everyone interested in joining, please send me your email in a private message and I'll add you to the league. It's head-to-head, so we need even numbers, and I can accommodate up to 20 teams.


I suspect Tuesday is going to kill other people, Storpappa. I have another guy who can be commish...do you want me to get him and do you want to be a player in the league if we do the 8pm EST Draft?

ALSO, update: Assuming both volunteer commishes will field a team, and that one will cover being commish for the draft which is immutably set for 8pm EST this Sunday, we have 5 in so far. I PM'd the other people who volunteered. I think we will shoot for a team of 10 total so the draft won't take forever and so we will all be jappy with our teams at least post draft. So just waiting for the next 5 and I will give an update here
.

Edit update: Have 7 now, need 3 more.

Edit update: My business partners hate me for doing this to our thread.

cam89
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Re: Q&A + Fantasy Football with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby cam89 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:50 pm

Hi guys- thanks for your help,

Resume question. Should I only list the institution I got my UG degree from, or should other institutions I got credits from but no degree (e.g. community college)? Either way they will be seeing my transcripts from everywhere, I just wanted to know what people list on resume. Thanks and a great holiday weekend to all!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A + Fantasy Football with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:58 pm

cam89 wrote:Hi guys- thanks for your help,

Resume question. Should I only list the institution I got my UG degree from, or should other institutions I got credits from but no degree (e.g. community college)? Either way they will be seeing my transcripts from everywhere, I just wanted to know what people list on resume. Thanks and a great holiday weekend to all!


This answer will vary from school to school because some schools may specifically ask you to list all institutions on your resume. In my opinion, I would recommend listing schools where you spent a significant amount of time. So if you spent a year or two acquiring credits but no degree somewhere, you might want to list it. But a summer course or two is unnecessary for the resume, imo.

In any event, be sure that you list ALL institutions attended on the application form itself. (I know that's not what you asked, but I saw this omission/mistake a lot over the years)

Cheers,
KB

Frozenice
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Re: Q&A + Fantasy Football with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Frozenice » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:55 pm

Hello everyone!

First of all I want to say thanks for doing this, it has been very helpful. However, I have a question about potentially writing an addendum.

I am a Canadian student going into his fourth year at Queen's University in their commerce program. In my first year, I was a science student, and after being accepted into the Commerce program, because it is a specialized program it has several mandatory first and second years courses only open to students in the program. As such, I was behind some courses in second and third year. In my second year, I took four second year courses, but eight first year courses. In my third year, I took 7 third year courses, and five second year courses. In my fourth year, I was completely caught up and am taking all fourth year courses.
To make matters more confusing, at Queen's for business, all first and second year courses are 100 courses (as in, COMM - 121 is a second year finance course, when usually a second year course would begin with be a 200 level course), so it looks like in my third year I took five first year courses (third and fourth year courses are 300 and 400 courses though, so they essentially skip the 200s for an unknown reason...). I was wondering if I should write an addendum first explaining this extremely strange course numbering system (highlighting exactly which courses are first year, and which are second year), and then going on to explain why in my second year and third year I took courses that were a year behind (they were required courses, not electives).

I have a 4.09 GPA and a 177 LSAT, however I am incredibly concerned they will disregard the GPA and say "Well, obviously because you took a bunch of first year courses in second and third year" or something like that. I sincerely hope they won't use it against me. I am trying to go for T-14 schools, by the way.

What do you guys think?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A + Fantasy Football with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:17 am

Oh wait we need ONE MORE. Draft Sunday 8pm EST!

Storpappa, I take it you can not be the commish at that time, correct? I have a backup. Can you do the draft or should I find another?
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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storpappa
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Re: Q&A + Fantasy Football with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby storpappa » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:38 am

TD's for Spiveys JD's is ON!

10 teams

Dean Spivey if you have emails can you PM them to me, otherwise everyone in the league needs to send me a PM with an email address so they all get the league sign in informatio

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A + Fantasy Football with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:40 am

storpappa wrote:TD's for Spiveys JD's is ON!

10 teams

Dean Spivey if you have emails can you PM them to me, otherwise everyone in the league needs to send me a PM with an email address so they all get the league sign in informatio


Everyone in the league, please send Storpappa a Pm right now! (oh and happy labor day weekend!)

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johnnysacks
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Re: Q&A + Fantasy Football with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby johnnysacks » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:49 pm

Hey I have a question about URM admissions and affirmative action.

The Supreme Court has decided to re-hear Fisher v UT. Its looking like Kennedy is going to vote with the conservatives meaning the Court will rule in Fisher's favor What is the likelihood of Grutter being overruled, overturned, and gutted like a Christmas hog. Is the 2015-2016 cycle the last law school admissions cycle where URMs can expect to receive a strong boost at fairly competitive schools? What would a worst case scenario look like for those URMs who are planning to apply in the fall of 2016?

There seems to be a bit of confusion on TLS about how this ruling impacts public schools verses private schools. Does the T14 have to drastically change their URM admissions standards? Some insist that because they are private they are less beholden to a ruling that would impact state schools like UT but another camp insists that because all these schools take federal funds they will have to comply with whatever standard the Court comes up with.

I know its a lot of questions but it has me super anxious for next year. I will probably be a splitter and I was hoping being a URM would give me a strong cycle. Is this the end of race as a factor in admissions as we know it?


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