Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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Panoptikon
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Panoptikon » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:15 pm

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Last edited by Panoptikon on Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:37 am

Radioheader wrote:What's your opinion on resources like mylsn.info? Do you think they can accurately capture one's chances on admission/scholarships, or does the fact that those statistics are self-selected make it a little unrepresentative and not worth the time looking at?

Furthermore, how would you recommend inputting the ranges on that site? For instance, I have a 3.59 GPA. How far below and above would I want to enter as a range in order to get the best picture of my chances?



The problem with LSN is that it is a small, and not generalizable, sample of the applicant pool. That last I heard an admissions office tell me they looked at the data they believed it was about 4% of the applicant pool (this was a few years ago and I suspect it is a bit more now). Also, it is often the high achievers in said pool. Finally, people understandably give false positives on things there or change their numbers slightly. So it is really risky to look at one data point and say "that could or should be me."I tend to think the scatter plots or much more useful than the ranges, given the above.

dlj4292
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby dlj4292 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:59 pm

Hey guys, thanks for all the useful advice.

Just wanted to ask a question about a registration form from a school at which I deposited.

The form has an acknowledgement that "I understand that by signing and returning this form I will be formally matriculated at XXXX. I acknowledge that I am liable for all tuition, fees, and expenses that will accrue during the 2015-2016 academic year."

The deadline to return this form is in a few weeks. I am waiting to hear back about the June LSAT in hopes of a higher score to negotiate for more scholarship money at this school or to get off the wait list at at least one of two other schools. I was just wondering what, if any, actual ramifications there could be if I sign this form and then withdraw.

Thanks again!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:20 pm

dlj4292 wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the useful advice.

Just wanted to ask a question about a registration form from a school at which I deposited.

The form has an acknowledgement that "I understand that by signing and returning this form I will be formally matriculated at XXXX. I acknowledge that I am liable for all tuition, fees, and expenses that will accrue during the 2015-2016 academic year."

The deadline to return this form is in a few weeks. I am waiting to hear back about the June LSAT in hopes of a higher score to negotiate for more scholarship money at this school or to get off the wait list at at least one of two other schools. I was just wondering what, if any, actual ramifications there could be if I sign this form and then withdraw.

Thanks again!


My guess is that this strong language is to encourage people remove themselves if they are still wavering about where to go. Check the school's tuition refund policy - it usually comes from the registrar's office. They can't go beyond that policy. If you properly withdraw before school starts they cannot charge you tuition; that would be unconscionable. Your deposit will be forfeited, of course.

Cheers,
karen

CanadianWolf
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:31 pm

Wouldn't a proper & timely withdrawal trigger the "that will accrue" phrase ?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:40 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Wouldn't a proper & timely withdrawal trigger the "that will accrue" phrase ?


Without knowing the details, I can't say for sure, but I have never heard of a school charging/keeping/assessing any fees to someone who never became an enrolled/matriculated student. With the obvious exception of a tuition deposit.

Cheers,
KB

CanadianWolf
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:39 am

Sorry, I guess that my question wasn't quite clear. The triggered phrase should protect one who properly & timely withdrawals prior to the start of the first term/semester because no tuition would have accrued at that point. Also, for one accepting a slot off of another school's waitlist, ABA rules should come into play to protect one who properly & timely withdraws prior to the start of the school year (leaving open, however, a situation which involves one who has already started the school year at one law school to leave for a waitlist opening at another).

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:18 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Sorry, I guess that my question wasn't quite clear. The triggered phrase should protect one who properly & timely withdrawals prior to the start of the first term/semester because no tuition would have accrued at that point. Also, for one accepting a slot off of another school's waitlist, ABA rules should come into play to protect one who properly & timely withdraws prior to the start of the school year (leaving open, however, a situation which involves one who has already started the school year at one law school to leave for a waitlist opening at another).


That is precisely correct.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:38 am

RareExports wrote:Hi Mike, could you speak a little bit to the second part of my post above? Is it fair to categorize waitlist behavior as being at least significantly motivated by revenue (perhaps even as opposed to being motivated by medians)?


Sorry, this one slipped through the cracks. (the discussion on this is on the previous page for anyone interested).

I would say that the number of people taken off of the WL is motivated by the number the school needs to enroll, as set by the dean, and that is based on tuition revenue needs. So at the 30,000 foot level, yes it is motivated by revenue.

As the summer progresses your medians, particularly LSAT, starts looking locked in. That's one reason I like median versus mean. Once this happens, and there are still WL needs (there most often are for almost every school), you start seeing people being admitted past on compelling life stories, how much the admissions offices knows and likes them through their applications, visits, etc, and a host of other reasons. So while the number admitted essentially comes from the top, who is admitted comes straight from the admissions office.

lawschooleder
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby lawschooleder » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:41 am

What would the repercussions be for backing out of an ED agreement before classes start? Would it hurt my ability to get into top schools in the future?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:04 pm

lolspamlink! wrote:What would the repercussions be for backing out of an ED agreement before classes start? Would it hurt my ability to get into top schools in the future?


You might want to read the ED agreement with that particular school very carefully to make sure that you completely understand the agreement. Having said that, the school is not going to come and grab you in the middle of the night to drag you to their law school. They can't make you come if you aren't going to go to law school this fall. It is likely, but not certain, that you will have burned a bridge with that particular school, but you can certainly reapply to other schools in a future year without repercussion.

People change their minds and things happen that interfere with plans. It's better to not start law school if it's not the right time or fit for you.

If you do decide to withdraw, it is better to do so earlier rather than later especially if you want to try to preserve the relationship with that school.

Cheers,
KB

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:08 pm

Good news! Dean Sarah Zearfoss of Michigan Law (https://www.law.umich.edu/FacultyBio/Pa ... D=szearfos) has availed herself to answer some questions on our blog: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/

Here is how it basically will work. Ask an admissions related question, not about any individual school, and send to me (info@spiveyconsulting.com) or post here with "THIS ONE IS FOR DEAN ZEARFOSS" somewhere so that Karen and I don't rudely jump in. I will forward the questions and Michigan Law Admissions and Dean Zearfoss will answer as many as her schedule will allow. There likely will be some she can't answer but I won't speak for her we'll just play by ear and see.

So send some questions our way and we will get on it!

lawschooleder
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby lawschooleder » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:29 am

Thank you for the response Karen!

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RareExports
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby RareExports » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:36 pm

Dean Zearfoss --

What is the largest challenge admissions offices face today that they didn't five years ago?

Do you see the admissions process becoming more splitter and reverse-splitter friendly year to year?

If you had an admissions "magic wand," what would you change about the process?

What are admissions offices that are behind the curve doing wrong, and what are admissions offices that are innovative and staying ahead of the game doing right?

What is your least favorite part of your job as Dean of Admissions?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:02 pm

RareExports wrote:Dean Zearfoss --

What is the largest challenge admissions offices face today that they didn't five years ago?

Do you see the admissions process becoming more splitter and reverse-splitter friendly year to year?

If you had an admissions "magic wand," what would you change about the process?

What are admissions offices that are behind the curve doing wrong, and what are admissions offices that are innovative and staying ahead of the game doing right?

What is your least favorite part of your job as Dean of Admissions?


Ask and ye shall receive! I agree with Dean Zearfoss, great questions!

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/michig ... ng-series/

Who is next?

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Generally
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Post removed.

Postby Generally » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:36 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by Generally on Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:17 pm


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Skool
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Skool » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:33 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Some exciting news for us:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/press- ... onsulting/
I lol'd.

So much for competition.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:18 pm

The legal fees between Cravath and Gibson Dunn weren't something to LOL about.

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usn26
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby usn26 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:11 pm

Ah, so you're forming a supergroup? Like the Traveling Wilburys. Cool beans.

a93212
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby a93212 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:56 pm

Mike and Karen,
I have a very important question to ask the two of you, but before I ask the question, I'll give you some background information. I have some serious C&F issues relating to past legal trouble; however, I do not have to disclose my past to half of the T14 schools because my record is sealed. While my record is sealed, I had a legal case going on for around three years, during which I turned my entire life around and excelled in school; however, I had to take off a semester and attend a boot-camp style program. Now, here's the question: how do I answer the question on the application,"has your education ever been interrupted for a term or more? If so, explain the circumstances." Can I just say I took off due to personal reasons? Or is that too vague and will it be a red flag for adcomms? Will they ask me what those personal reasons are during an interview or on a phone call, or will they just assume that a family member passed? For the schools that I'm applying to, which I'm not obligated to disclose my cases for which I was granted youthful offender status, I don't want to tell them If I don't have to. Do you have any suggestions for going about this in an effective manner? Thanks in advance.
Last edited by a93212 on Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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storpappa
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby storpappa » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:14 pm

Dean Spivey
I have an autographed Dean Spivey and company coffee mug (which for some reason hasn't shipped to me yet) for asking the best questions. Will you be holding a contest for all the old office supplies with this new merger?

And will you be merging threads here on TLS?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:30 am

This thread with Dean Zearfoss has grown to answer a number of questions:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/michig ... ng-series/

and we'll try to get to any we owe on here as well.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:48 pm

It is never too early to start planning for the 2nd Annual Spivey Consulting Group Fantasy Football League. The winner gets some free waitlist, scholarship negotiation or transfer application advice. I can't remember many more specifics from last year other than I think I came in second. Date looks likely to be Sunday, August 23rd. Save your spot in this thread, we will cap out at 10 or 12.

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Hikikomorist
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Hikikomorist » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:21 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:It is never too early to start planning for the 2nd Annual Spivey Consulting Group Fantasy Football League. The winner gets some free waitlist, scholarship negotiation or transfer application advice. I can't remember many more specifics from last year other than I think I came in second. Date looks likely to be Sunday, August 23rd. Save your spot in this thread, we will cap out at 10 or 12.

I'll give it a try if it's free to enter.


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