Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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bleachgc
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby bleachgc » Wed May 20, 2015 9:39 pm

Thank you for your advice. :) :)

monkeyKT
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby monkeyKT » Wed May 20, 2015 10:05 pm

Just wondering, per your latest blog post (thanks for updating us suffering WLers by the way!) what is considered a "wave" in the WL cycle? Per your experience or prediction, how large or small are these waves in terms of acceptances? I know it varies by the school and class sizes obviously but I'm hoping to get an idea...

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu May 21, 2015 12:35 pm

monkeyKT wrote:Just wondering, per your latest blog post (thanks for updating us suffering WLers by the way!) what is considered a "wave" in the WL cycle? Per your experience or prediction, how large or small are these waves in terms of acceptances? I know it varies by the school and class sizes obviously but I'm hoping to get an idea...


This really does vary from school to school, but a general rule at some schools (more at the top) is that the biggest wave will be the first one, and they will get smaller from there throughout the summer. By July and August, it may be down to single admits here and there to fill the class as people leave.
At other schools, it's more of a steady process - sometimes it may be weekly admits from the WL and the size of the group may stay more steady for a longer time.
Hope that helps!

Cheers,
KB

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dominicanguy12
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby dominicanguy12 » Thu May 21, 2015 10:34 pm

I am taking the October LSAT and am wondering if I should wait until I get my results to apply to school, or if I should apply early (September) and then take the LSAT and send them the results.

Would the difference in applying from September or October be too small to matter? I want to boost my chances of admission as much as possible. On the other hand, should I just wait and not waste some money on applications if I perform badly on the LSAT?

Thank you so much for your help in this thread!

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby haus » Thu May 21, 2015 10:54 pm

dominicanguy12 wrote:I am taking the October LSAT and am wondering if I should wait until I get my results to apply to school, or if I should apply early (September) and then take the LSAT and send them the results.

Would the difference in applying from September or October be too small to matter? I want to boost my chances of admission as much as possible. On the other hand, should I just wait and not waste some money on applications if I perform badly on the LSAT?

Thank you so much for your help in this thread!

If memory serves, LSAC will not let you submit an application without an LSAT score, so unless you already have taken the exam it is unlikely that you will be able to apply in September.

Although from past postings by Mike and Karen on this thread, it appears that submitting an application right in the wake of the Oct LSAT results posting is still considered to be fairly early in the cycle.

Good Luck,

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu May 21, 2015 11:11 pm

haus wrote:
dominicanguy12 wrote:I am taking the October LSAT and am wondering if I should wait until I get my results to apply to school, or if I should apply early (September) and then take the LSAT and send them the results.

Would the difference in applying from September or October be too small to matter? I want to boost my chances of admission as much as possible. On the other hand, should I just wait and not waste some money on applications if I perform badly on the LSAT?

Thank you so much for your help in this thread!

If memory serves, LSAC will not let you submit an application without an LSAT score, so unless you already have taken the exam it is unlikely that you will be able to apply in September.

Although from past postings by Mike and Karen on this thread, it appears that submitting an application right in the wake of the Oct LSAT results posting is still considered to be fairly early in the cycle.

Good Luck,


You can submit an application without an LSAT score, but your CAS report won't be sent until you have a score. Waiting for the October test results will not make you a late applicant - in fact you will still be early in the process. There won't be a difference between applying in September or late October when the results come out.
Unless you know your score or at least have a ballpark, your list of where to apply should not be set or final.
Hope that helps!
Cheers,
KB

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bjsesq
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby bjsesq » Fri May 22, 2015 10:20 am

Honorable Potentate Spivey:

I was recently diagnosed with hepatitis and was considering putting this in an LOCI to show my ability to overcome adversity. 1-10 with 1 being good idea and 10 being best idea?

Yours,

Boo

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storpappa
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby storpappa » Fri May 22, 2015 10:42 am

Dean Spivey,
I was born with a genetic rarity, called dimples. Should I include an (1) 5x7 or an (2) 8x10 in my admissions packet in the hopes of gaining sympathy points in my application process?

Thank you for all the wonderful information you share with us and I hope you and your staff have a wonderful holiday weekend

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LegaleZy
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby LegaleZy » Sat May 23, 2015 11:56 am

In general when a law school releases students from their WL, what are they looking for? Do schools tend to keep the students that have shown a significant amount of interest, or is it more formulaic? Just trying to get an idea of what this process is like from the admissions perspective. Thank You

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat May 23, 2015 1:58 pm

LegaleZy wrote:In general when a law school releases students from their WL, what are they looking for? Do schools tend to keep the students that have shown a significant amount of interest, or is it more formulaic? Just trying to get an idea of what this process is like from the admissions perspective. Thank You


I think it will vary from school to school, but it is probably a combination of both. I can see a situation where they will take the person who is more likely to attend (especially when it gets closer to start time) but they will also be very mindful of their numbers throughout the summer.

Hang in there!!
Cheers,
KB

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue May 26, 2015 8:26 am

Karen and I are together today for our annual corporate retreat so if you have any quick admissions questions feel free to tweet them to us at: https://twitter.com/spiveyconsult

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri May 29, 2015 8:08 am

What are the determining factors behind a particular school's admission philosophy? For example, splitter/reverse splitter friendly schools.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri May 29, 2015 8:15 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:What are the determining factors behind a particular school's admission philosophy? For example, splitter/reverse splitter friendly schools.


That is a fascinating question. Probably who the dean of admissions is and their background/training/strategic mindset, etc....as much as anything. Karen?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri May 29, 2015 9:13 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:What are the determining factors behind a particular school's admission philosophy? For example, splitter/reverse splitter friendly schools.


That is a fascinating question. Probably who the dean of admissions is and their background/training/strategic mindset, etc....as much as anything. Karen?


I agree that it comes from the head of the admissions office, and that is influenced by a variety of factors including faculty on the admissions committee, the dean, the needs of the school for numbers, etc.

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splittermcsplit88
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby splittermcsplit88 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:04 pm

Hi,

I am a prospective transfer student, and I called the admissions office about my file. They told me that my file has been reviewed by the Dean of Admissions, the Admissions Committee, and is now being reviewed by the Dean of Students. My question is, is this a good sign? I may be a little too hopeful, but I feel like they wouldn't have relayed my file to the Dean of Students if it was already shut down by the other dean and committee. Plus, isn't the Dean of Students someone who figures out the logistics of credits, etc? Thank you!

june1
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby june1 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:14 am

Hey guys, this is kind of outside the realm of admissions, but I was wondering what effect a new law school dean has on the average student. Will the transition at UVA, for example, have any real effect on students in the short term?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:09 am

splittermcsplit88 wrote:Hi,

I am a prospective transfer student, and I called the admissions office about my file. They told me that my file has been reviewed by the Dean of Admissions, the Admissions Committee, and is now being reviewed by the Dean of Students. My question is, is this a good sign? I may be a little too hopeful, but I feel like they wouldn't have relayed my file to the Dean of Students if it was already shut down by the other dean and committee. Plus, isn't the Dean of Students someone who figures out the logistics of credits, etc? Thank you!


Not all schools have the same procedure, so If this is a normal part of the school's process then I would say it's a good sign. I think you are right in that they wouldn't have continued to pass it along if you were a definite no. At some schools, it may be the dean of students who figures that out; at others it might be the registrar's office.
Hope that is helpful!
Cheers,
KB

monkeyKT
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby monkeyKT » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:15 am

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Last edited by monkeyKT on Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:06 am

monkeyKT wrote:Hi Spivey,

What advice would you give someone who is debating cancelling their June LSAT test or not? This person is already signed up for the June test but knows she will cancel it and retake in October--is it worth it to take it in June to get an environmental feel?

How heavily do schools look at LSAT absences or cancellations? This person already has one absence under their belt.

Thanks!


One cancelled score is not a big deal, but when it starts to look like a pattern, this may raise some questions for the admissions folks. Since it is one absence and one cancel, it's far from detrimental, but it's not ideal. I think it is a bit unorthodox to have this as a plan and it wouldn't necessarily be my advice to do this, but there may be very good reasons for wanting to get a feel for it so she can feel super prepared and do her best on the real test day.
And, fwiw to others who are reading this and don't know, a cancelled score counts as one of your three allotted takes in two years, so this may put some serious and avoidable pressure on future takes.

Cheers,
KB

jdcumlaude
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby jdcumlaude » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:37 am

RareExports wrote:After a certain point, do the ranks mean anything? As evidenced by both large ties and shifts in rankings in the lower T2/T3 on an annual basis, is there really much difference between a school ranked #80 and a school ranked #110?

Similarly, is there any real cutoff to when a school becomes ranked/unraked? Campbell recently went unranked and the boundary between the two categories seems somewhat fluid.

Would be interested in these answers, as there hasn't been much discussion on the lower end of the rankings. Thanks!


Fluid?...Campbell lost 30 spots. That is not fluid that is an indication of employment statistics.

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ltowns1
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby ltowns1 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:34 am

I'm curious to know whether top law schools keep a median score for accepted appliancants within large minority groups such as HIspanic, and African Americans. So in other words, for places like HYS, are they aware of what the average median LSAT score for AA's, and HA's are? If so, why won't they release those score medians as well? I think it would really help us applicants (I'm an African American male) to know in general what score would at least allow us a further look among those schools, and what score would probably mean rejection. We know that all things being considered, the average median for non-URM's will not be reflective of the median score that reflects the accepted applicant population of URM's at that particular school, although it does give an indication of what number a URM could prob. use to gage their chance if they did reach the median given to the public at that particular school. Hope I'm making sense, let me know if not.
Last edited by ltowns1 on Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

glitchfire
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby glitchfire » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:40 am

At investment banking and management consulting information sessions it is crucial to ask the right questions and network with the right people.
This fall, law schools will start having information sessions on my campus. How much does asking the right questions and networking with law school adcom members help? What kind of questions would they appreciate and be the most impressed by?

This is purely speculation, but would they be most impressed by questions that relate specifically to certain types of law and career aspirations? As I think this would show a general passion for law, and that my decision to pursue law is not a backup plan for a history degree.

Thanks

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:13 pm

glitchfire wrote:At investment banking and management consulting information sessions it is crucial to ask the right questions and network with the right people.
This fall, law schools will start having information sessions on my campus. How much does asking the right questions and networking with law school adcom members help? What kind of questions would they appreciate and be the most impressed by?

This is purely speculation, but would they be most impressed by questions that relate specifically to certain types of law and career aspirations? As I think this would show a general passion for law, and that my decision to pursue law is not a backup plan for a history degree.

Thanks


It will depend on how big the audience is, I think. You'll have more of an opportunity to make a positive impression if there is a small crowd. I think presenting yourself as someone who is focused and has thought about this decision to attend law school thoroughly is a good start. You don't have to be super focused on a career path just yet - it's not really expected that you have an exact idea of what you want to do, but it is expected that you have a good reason to the question "why do you want to go to law school?"

So I think you are on the right track, but don't be too focused on the end game. You want to be focused on the education at this point and how it will help you reach your (potentially vague) goals.

Just try to be a positive and friendly person - it sounds so simple, but those where the folks that I remembered the most fondly when I visited schools. Being likeable helps in the admissions process :)

Cheers,
KB

Moneytrees
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:44 pm

ltowns1 wrote:I'm curious to know whether top law schools keep a median score for accepted appliancants within large minority groups such as HIspanic, and African Americans. So in other words, for places like HYS, are they aware of what the average median LSAT score for AA's, and HA's are? If so, why won't they release those score medians as well? I think it would really help us applicants (I'm an African American male) to know in general what score would at least allow us a further look among those schools, and what score would probably mean rejection. We know that all things being considered, the average median for non-URM's will not be reflective of the median score that reflects the accepted applicant population of URM's at that particular school, although it does give an indication of what number a URM could prob. use to gage their chance if they did reach the median given to the public at that particular school. Hope I'm making sense, let me know if not.


You can use lawschoolnumbers to get an idea of what a URM needs for a given school. I'm sure schools keep track of these things, but won't release information like that for fairly obvious reasons.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:19 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
ltowns1 wrote:I'm curious to know whether top law schools keep a median score for accepted appliancants within large minority groups such as HIspanic, and African Americans. So in other words, for places like HYS, are they aware of what the average median LSAT score for AA's, and HA's are? If so, why won't they release those score medians as well? I think it would really help us applicants (I'm an African American male) to know in general what score would at least allow us a further look among those schools, and what score would probably mean rejection. We know that all things being considered, the average median for non-URM's will not be reflective of the median score that reflects the accepted applicant population of URM's at that particular school, although it does give an indication of what number a URM could prob. use to gage their chance if they did reach the median given to the public at that particular school. Hope I'm making sense, let me know if not.


You can use lawschoolnumbers to get an idea of what a URM needs for a given school. I'm sure schools keep track of these things, but won't release information like that for fairly obvious reasons.


We had a nice chat via PM :)


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