Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:54 pm

Lions1913 wrote:How long is it acceptable to wait after a waitlist to send a LOCI? Can I send one more than two months being WLed if I haven't submitted one already?


For sure. Heck you may time it just right and get it in their hands when they want it the most. Send away!

lawpractice
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby lawpractice » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:44 pm

Spivey why are you so confident of higher apps for next year?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:59 pm

lawpractice wrote:Spivey why are you so confident of higher apps for next year?


Well, I am far from very confident. I'm stabbing at this as much as anyone. But I have talked to a few LSAT prep companies who seem to be up in registrations, we are up in people reaching out to us next cycle, and then there are the 4 others reasons I blogged about here:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/predic ... ons-cycle/

But again, I wouldn't say I am confident they will be up. More like 51% of me is on up, 49% on stable or down. How is that for a pretty absurd hedge? :)

I am much more confident that 170+ will be up, fyi.

MikeJD
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeJD » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:01 pm

Given the dramatic decline at 165 and above how many t-14/t-20 schools do you think have will lower LSAT medians?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:57 am

MikeJD wrote:Given the dramatic decline at 165 and above how many t-14/t-20 schools do you think have will lower LSAT medians?


I believe 6 schools in the top 20 last year lost an LSAT off the median and I think this year we will see at least that. In fact, I'm going to go with 8 this year. The only way a number of schools will be able to stave this off is if they drop class size even lower, which is starting to seem unlikely giving financial risks. So unless a ton of schools have a ton of deferrals unlike any other year, I think we will seem some more decline.

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storpappa
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby storpappa » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:24 am

Dean Spivey,

A question for you, with a bit of humor and a bit of seriousness to the issue.

I applied to a safety school on 1/1 for this cycle. It was a safety, so for lack of any other name, lets call it some random name like Stanford. I got the status checker email, nothing until a recent email saying they are working hard on the backlog of applications.

In the time being, I got into a reach school, deposited and am moving on. Initially I was holding on because I wanted to get the t-shirt and coffee mug. T-shirt to give to one of my family and the coffee mug to use on Friday "Bring other law school swag" days in my 1L classes. On Thursdays in honor of Bill Cosby I will be wearing schools I attended sweater during the winter months of my 1L year. The freebie swag in the COngrats your accepted package will go to good use.

Now however I have enough swag to cover me, and I am wondering:

A - can I ask for a refund, I mean come on now! 4 months? Just make a decision. Use the money I sent in to buy a Magic 8 ball and make a decision. Buy some darts and a dart board. Something.
or B - should I continue to hold out for a decision in hopes of the admissions t-shirt and coffee mug?


But in all seriousness, 4 months? I had decisions from other schools and seen many others get them in a week. And at the school still waiting for a decision, I see people asking about the WL. Does there just come a reasonable deadline where a school sends out an email and apologies because they lost a stack of admissions applications in an office cleaning supply accident? Why make us wait so long?

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NotASpecialSnowflake
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby NotASpecialSnowflake » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:32 am

Spivey do you have any recommendations for negotiating after I've deposited? (I had to withdraw from all other schools) I want to see if they can offer any more $ and I figured some might free up around the deposit deadline.

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TheProdigal
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby TheProdigal » Fri May 01, 2015 8:57 am

Hi Mike and Karen,
Up against a deadline for registering for the June LSAT tonight -- I'm waitlisted at nine schools, but at or above the 75th for each of them. I might also reapply next year.

Am I right to think that a June retake is going to be a bit late in the summer to be useful at this point, and only minimally helpful considering my current score? I'm leaning towards riding out this cycle, and retaking in October if things don't pan out, but wanted to get a second opinion.

Thanks!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri May 01, 2015 9:02 am

TheProdigal wrote:Hi Mike and Karen,
Up against a deadline for registering for the June LSAT tonight -- I'm waitlisted at nine schools, but at or above the 75th for each of them. I might also reapply next year.

Am I right to think that a June retake is going to be a bit late in the summer to be useful at this point, and only minimally helpful considering my current score? I'm leaning towards riding out this cycle, and retaking in October if things don't pan out, but wanted to get a second opinion.

Thanks!


Considering your current score relative to the schools 75ths you have outlined I wouldn't retake. I'd ride out this cycle, agreed.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri May 01, 2015 9:05 am

storpappa wrote:Dean Spivey,

A question for you, with a bit of humor and a bit of seriousness to the issue.

I applied to a safety school on 1/1 for this cycle. It was a safety, so for lack of any other name, lets call it some random name like Stanford. I got the status checker email, nothing until a recent email saying they are working hard on the backlog of applications.

In the time being, I got into a reach school, deposited and am moving on. Initially I was holding on because I wanted to get the t-shirt and coffee mug. T-shirt to give to one of my family and the coffee mug to use on Friday "Bring other law school swag" days in my 1L classes. On Thursdays in honor of Bill Cosby I will be wearing schools I attended sweater during the winter months of my 1L year. The freebie swag in the COngrats your accepted package will go to good use.

Now however I have enough swag to cover me, and I am wondering:

A - can I ask for a refund, I mean come on now! 4 months? Just make a decision. Use the money I sent in to buy a Magic 8 ball and make a decision. Buy some darts and a dart board. Something.
or B - should I continue to hold out for a decision in hopes of the admissions t-shirt and coffee mug?


But in all seriousness, 4 months? I had decisions from other schools and seen many others get them in a week. And at the school still waiting for a decision, I see people asking about the WL. Does there just come a reasonable deadline where a school sends out an email and apologies because they lost a stack of admissions applications in an office cleaning supply accident? Why make us wait so long?


Without knowing which school (you can PM me it if you want, it may depend on the culture of the school), I doubt you will get a refund. I completely get your point but they will likely just come back with "our policy is to not give refunds on application fees and the length of time is indicative of how carefully we read applications" or something like that. But if you indeed have zero interest in it now you can for sure ask, I don't really see any downside.

supersplittysplitter
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby supersplittysplitter » Fri May 01, 2015 3:28 pm

Is there any point to sending a LOCI shortly after filling out a wait list confirmation form? I mean if you just recently indicated you want to stay on the wait list, is it worth expanding on that with a LOCI?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat May 02, 2015 11:35 am

Check out number 1, option 3 in this business school application for Texas.

https://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/MBA/Full ... ons/Essays

That is so different from anything done in law admissions (although option 1.2 in the same application is growing for law schools). I wonder if this will catch on over on our side?

Winter is Coming
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Winter is Coming » Sat May 02, 2015 12:15 pm

I mean, would you want it to? It just seems like a glorified LinkedIn page. Maybe for artistic/design type people it would help, but I don't know how much more you'd get out of that than a personal statement.

With that said, I've never really seen one so maybe people do get very creative and it shows things you couldn't show in the rest of the app.

Also, video introductions for potential law students would probably lead to a bunch of cringeworthy stuff winding up on youtube.

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gamerish
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Postby gamerish » Sat May 02, 2015 1:45 pm

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Gray
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Gray » Sat May 02, 2015 6:34 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Check out number 1, option 3 in this business school application for Texas.

https://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/MBA/Full ... ons/Essays

That is so different from anything done in law admissions (although option 1.2 in the same application is growing for law schools). I wonder if this will catch on over on our side?

Georgetown's fill in the box this year was a similar idea, I think. For me, it was a really cool opportunity to use graphic design skills - something I do for fun but is only a small part of my resume.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun May 03, 2015 10:09 pm

supersplittysplitter wrote:Is there any point to sending a LOCI shortly after filling out a wait list confirmation form? I mean if you just recently indicated you want to stay on the wait list, is it worth expanding on that with a LOCI?



Yes, because for yield protection reasons it looks a lot more sincere when you take the time to do so versus clicking "yes" and walking away.

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Auxilio
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Auxilio » Mon May 04, 2015 10:49 am

.
Last edited by Auxilio on Mon May 04, 2015 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon May 04, 2015 12:39 pm

Auxilio wrote:If I am currently sitting on a ~half tuition scholarship to Penn and waitlist at Harvard is it possible to quickly negotiate a small increase if I get off the waitlist in May, or is that unrealistic?
edit: above both 75th if that is important


Certainly possible. Keep in mind schools get money back all summer long too!

dustybottoms7
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby dustybottoms7 » Mon May 04, 2015 6:01 pm

NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Spivey do you have any recommendations for negotiating after I've deposited? (I had to withdraw from all other schools) I want to see if they can offer any more $ and I figured some might free up around the deposit deadline.


interested in this as well!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue May 05, 2015 10:39 am

dustybottoms7 wrote:
NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Spivey do you have any recommendations for negotiating after I've deposited? (I had to withdraw from all other schools) I want to see if they can offer any more $ and I figured some might free up around the deposit deadline.


interested in this as well!



It likely isn't such a good idea to discuss much in the way of scholarship negotiation strategy in public, fyi. I think history has shown us that when that occurs it is more easy to counter said strategies. Sorry to be vague and apologies for not answering this.

dustybottoms7
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby dustybottoms7 » Tue May 05, 2015 12:42 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
dustybottoms7 wrote:
NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Spivey do you have any recommendations for negotiating after I've deposited? (I had to withdraw from all other schools) I want to see if they can offer any more $ and I figured some might free up around the deposit deadline.


interested in this as well!



It likely isn't such a good idea to discuss much in the way of scholarship negotiation strategy in public, fyi. I think history has shown us that when that occurs it is more easy to counter said strategies. Sorry to be vague and apologies for not answering this.


feel free to pm me, or if you are not comfortable sharing these tactics I completely understand.

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby DCfilterDC » Tue May 05, 2015 1:08 pm

Spivey,

I have a family friend who was applying to law schools in the early 2000s. She didn't have a great stats and applied to quite a few schools, one school that rejected her sent her a letter that basically told her that she should reconsider the field of law. She is now a Senior Associate in a major market and doing very well for herself. She has the letter framed in her office, and it's certainly a real letter. Have you ever heard of admissions officers saying something as severe as law school isn't for them in an application rejection? Is that actually common?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue May 05, 2015 1:47 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:Spivey,

I have a family friend who was applying to law schools in the early 2000s. She didn't have a great stats and applied to quite a few schools, one school that rejected her sent her a letter that basically told her that she should reconsider the field of law. She is now a Senior Associate in a major market and doing very well for herself. She has the letter framed in her office, and it's certainly a real letter. Have you ever heard of admissions officers saying something as severe as law school isn't for them in an application rejection? Is that actually common?


Ive never heard anything of that sort. How horrible of them -- how awesome of her. I'd actually be interested in speaking with her confidentially on the phone.

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candidlatke
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby candidlatke » Tue May 05, 2015 6:39 pm

How important is GPA when it's below 3.0?

I.E. Is there a big difference between 2.7 and 2.9 and etc., some people have said that if it's below the 25 percentile line, it'll be thrown into the same pile of "awful GPA."

Furthermore, would it be worth it to withdraw classes (they still show up as a W, but I don't think the UC's are punitive) to boost overall GPA?
Even at the cost of a second major (it's a softer major if anything)

I'm trying to decide plans for this summer and my current plans are to do a summer project/app/start-up with friends to add to my "diversity".
However, if I commit to summer school, I could raise my GPA slightly.

Which would you advise is the smarter decision?

If it makes any difference, I'm planning for applying for the T-14's as a pretty big splitter.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed May 06, 2015 10:26 am

candidlatke wrote:How important is GPA when it's below 3.0?

I.E. Is there a big difference between 2.7 and 2.9 and etc., some people have said that if it's below the 25 percentile line, it'll be thrown into the same pile of "awful GPA."

Furthermore, would it be worth it to withdraw classes (they still show up as a W, but I don't think the UC's are punitive) to boost overall GPA?
Even at the cost of a second major (it's a softer major if anything)

I'm trying to decide plans for this summer and my current plans are to do a summer project/app/start-up with friends to add to my "diversity".
However, if I commit to summer school, I could raise my GPA slightly.

Which would you advise is the smarter decision?

If it makes any difference, I'm planning for applying for the T-14's as a pretty big splitter.


I think that the difference between a 2.7 and a 2.9 is not the same as a .20 difference if we are above the 25th percentile. But that doesn't mean that it's not a difference. In some cases, it will depend on what the transcript looks like. Was there one bad semester? a rough start?
Showing a strong finish could be a good sign or if you could raise it above the 3.0 mark, that would be ideal (there is a bit of a psychological effect on the 3.0 mark). A few W's on your transcript are not generally a problem, but it there is an excessive amount or a pattern of this, it may not look great. The double major doesn't really add much with this GPA, imo.
My advice would be to try to show a strong finish to your education. Would the summer school push graduation to the end of the summer or are you just finishing your junior year now?

Cheers,
KB


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