Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:10 pm

Awesome top 10 Mike. Love the fight club one.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:30 pm

Bajam, thanks and I hope it helps next year too!

Gatorgirl, sadly I think you might have wanted to deposit at both. I know last year some schools gave scholarship offers to people they took of the wait-list so you are still in the game. It will just take patience, something I am no good at!

JXander, you are a good looking guy you should have more confidence in asking again (sorry I could not resist the stupid joke. Also Will Muschamp isn't so handsome so i had to say that about someone)

Rizzy, glad you liked them!! Fight Club was such an awesome book.

meylanl
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby meylanl » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:52 pm

Hi Mike, wondering if you could help me out bc I'm sort of in a bind. I was accepted to a school with about 45% scholarship and I sent in my first seat deposit last month. However, today, I was contacted by a higher ranked school and offered a spot off the wait list. I immediately asked about financial aid and scholarships and was told that while no merit scholarships would be awarded I could apply for 'need based grants'. I have until 10 am to submit my seat deposit. A few people have told me to just bite the bullet and pay the $900 to buy myself some time. Would you agree with that approach? Considering I'm about to be very poor, I hate to just (possibly) throw that much money out the window. This second higher ranked school is known for being stingy so I'm unsure whether it's worth the money to even apply for the need based grant (which they may or may not have enough money to give out anyway)

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:07 pm

If I were you I'd ask for a seat deposit extension right now. That should buy you at least a few more days or a week.

Hard to say re: the need based but I do know schools will often just say "apply for need based aid" when they do not give merit, and then give very few need based offers.

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sublime
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby sublime » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:30 am

..

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:23 am

Hey all you boopers out there (name they movie without googling it),

I'm going to blog a 2-3 part series on law schools as Game of Thrones Characters. For example (although this may or may not be something I actually use) Cooley could be Hodor.

You guys know the themes/culture of law schools as well as I do so please email or PM me if you have any ideas. Please don't post them here, though, so that once the blog is up it will be a surprise for the...um..."world" to see. By world, of course I mean 15 people who will read this goofy blog article.

So in sum, HELP PLEASE!

Thanks!

Mike

meylanl
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby meylanl » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:32 am

Thank you! That's exactly my concern- AU will come back and say they don't have the money/I don't qualify for need based/give me much less than Catholic.

One more question for you, would it be a bad idea to try and use my acceptance into AU as leverage in negotiations with Catholic? Is there no leverage since AU has not offered me any money?

MasterOfAllISurvey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MasterOfAllISurvey » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:57 am

MikeSpivey wrote:Hey all you boopers out there (name they movie without googling it),

I'm going to blog a 2-3 part series on law schools as Game of Thrones Characters. For example (although this may or may not be something I actually use) Cooley could be Hodor.


Thanks!

Mike


:lol: :lol:

Purplebook
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Purplebook » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:18 am

Thanks for all this information! I have one question: if one has money from school A but none from school B and one is trying to negotiate with school A but hasn't heard anything, would would be best to double deposit in order to buy more time?

Lumieres
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Lumieres » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:25 am

Purplebook wrote:Thanks for all this information! I have one question: if one has money from school A but none from school B and one is trying to negotiate with school A but hasn't heard anything, would would be best to double deposit in order to buy more time?


I can't stand people who double deposit.

Purplebook
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Purplebook » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:34 am

Lumieres wrote:
Purplebook wrote:Thanks for all this information! I have one question: if one has money from school A but none from school B and one is trying to negotiate with school A but hasn't heard anything, would would be best to double deposit in order to buy more time?


I can't stand people who double deposit.



Me either. I'm hoping he says no so I don't have to:
A. Hate myself for causing an admission office extra work/cause another student to be on the waitlist longer than necessary
B. Eliminate eating food for the next two weeks in order to afford two deposits.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:45 am

He likely isn't going to say no to the specific question.

I hate to sound like I am living in the movie Battlefield Earth but you really lose leverage if you only deposit at one school, which the law schools see in their commitment overlap reports. There are no guarantee, of course, and you may cost yourself an extra deposit or two but if I were negotiating for scholarship money I would multi-deposit.

In respect to creating the admissions office "more work" I would not lose sleep over this. Any admissions professional worth their salary is going to be working on something anyway, so it may as well be you.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby NoodleyOne » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:48 am

MikeSpivey wrote:He likely isn't going to say no to the specific question.

I hate to sound like I am living in the movie Battlefield Earth but you really lose leverage if you only deposit at one school, which the law schools see in their commitment overlap reports. There are no guarantee, of course, and you may cost yourself an extra deposit or two but if I were negotiating for scholarship money I would multi-deposit.

In respect to creating the admissions office "more work" I would not lose sleep over this. Any admissions professional worth their salary is going to be working on something anyway, so it may as well be you.

This is in regards to double depositing...

Can I borrow 600 dollars? I'm good for it.

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JXander
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby JXander » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:49 am

When May rolls around, will a school at which I am wait-listed give me less consideration when they acknowledge that I have paid multiple deposits to other schools?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:00 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:He likely isn't going to say no to the specific question.

I hate to sound like I am living in the movie Battlefield Earth but you really lose leverage if you only deposit at one school, which the law schools see in their commitment overlap reports. There are no guarantee, of course, and you may cost yourself an extra deposit or two but if I were negotiating for scholarship money I would multi-deposit.

In respect to creating the admissions office "more work" I would not lose sleep over this. Any admissions professional worth their salary is going to be working on something anyway, so it may as well be you.

This is in regards to double depositing...

Can I borrow 600 dollars? I'm good for it.


Here is my counter offer. When you get 20k more in scholarships can I have 10k of it?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:02 pm

JXander wrote:When May rolls around, will a school at which I am wait-listed give me less consideration when they acknowledge that I have paid multiple deposits to other schools?


The school where you are wait-listed at will not see the report since you have not seat deposited there.

Purplebook
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Purplebook » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:04 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:He likely isn't going to say no to the specific question.

I hate to sound like I am living in the movie Battlefield Earth but you really lose leverage if you only deposit at one school, which the law schools see in their commitment overlap reports. There are no guarantee, of course, and you may cost yourself an extra deposit or two but if I were negotiating for scholarship money I would multi-deposit.

In respect to creating the admissions office "more work" I would not lose sleep over this. Any admissions professional worth their salary is going to be working on something anyway, so it may as well be you.


Thanks Mike!

Jimbo_Jones
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Jimbo_Jones » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:23 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Mistake #2: Shanri-Law is up http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

Yo Mike, in your opinion does the advice in this post apply to Clerkships and Academia jobs (which might be a reason why someone would transfer from being top 10% at a 15-20 school to HYS) as well or just firm jobs?


Nope. Those would be good reasons to move up. I was essentially just speaking about "BigLaw" I should add that in right now, and will!

Edit: Good catch, added a disclaimer.


I'm surprised after 15 pages there really isn't a lot of questions on transferring, so here are a few:

1. Read the blog post. I agree that trying to transfer up from a T20 for biglaw might not offer a huge advantage, but most people looking to transfer are at TT/TTT/TTTT trying to get T20/T14. Would your opinion about transferring in that situation still be the same? Especially if the TTT isn't in your target market?

2. Also, regardless of whether you think transferring is a good idea, do you have any advice for TTT students that can help them stand out / improve their chances of getting T20/T14 above and beyond stellar 1L grades and class rank?

3. Looking at yahoo transferapps, you can tell that the rank of the school you're transferring from matters. Any insight into how a school determines whether to admit a student with great grades from a lower ranked school? (e.g., higher class rank cutoff, GPA discounted based on the school ranking, is the school's reputation taken into account, etc.)

bincognito
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby bincognito » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:37 pm

Hey! Thanks for all the help.

If you're waitlisted does it help to visit the school even if admissions says it won't see students in their waitlist letters?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:59 pm

bincognito wrote:Hey! Thanks for all the help.

If you're waitlisted does it help to visit the school even if admissions says it won't see students in their waitlist letters?


It certainly does not hurt and can likely help, yes. I mean, don't force yourself into an admissions person's office but I would ask to simply introduce yourself to someone, if possible.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:53 am

Jimbo_Jones wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Mistake #2: Shanri-Law is up http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

Yo Mike, in your opinion does the advice in this post apply to Clerkships and Academia jobs (which might be a reason why someone would transfer from being top 10% at a 15-20 school to HYS) as well or just firm jobs?


Nope. Those would be good reasons to move up. I was essentially just speaking about "BigLaw" I should add that in right now, and will!

Edit: Good catch, added a disclaimer.


I'm surprised after 15 pages there really isn't a lot of questions on transferring, so here are a few:

1. Read the blog post. I agree that trying to transfer up from a T20 for biglaw might not offer a huge advantage, but most people looking to transfer are at TT/TTT/TTTT trying to get T20/T14. Would your opinion about transferring in that situation still be the same? Especially if the TTT isn't in your target market?

2. Also, regardless of whether you think transferring is a good idea, do you have any advice for TTT students that can help them stand out / improve their chances of getting T20/T14 above and beyond stellar 1L grades and class rank?

3. Looking at yahoo transferapps, you can tell that the rank of the school you're transferring from matters. Any insight into how a school determines whether to admit a student with great grades from a lower ranked school? (e.g., higher class rank cutoff, GPA discounted based on the school ranking, is the school's reputation taken into account, etc.)


Jimbo,

Let me address 1 and 3. I need to not really get into #2 because I have clients who have paid me for that and it strikes me as unfair to them if I start blathering on about specific strategies. I hope you understand.

1. Yes I agree I am surprised there have not been a few more posts about transferring, but likely because now is about the time potential transfers start seriously digging in. IO also agree that if I were at the 100th ranked school and I thought I could get into a T-25 I'd apply in an instant, so good catch and call.

3. It's more art than science, but certainly there is a sliding scale based on rank of school and class rank. So if you are applying from T-20 to T14, in this environment top 50% is likely going to get you in some places. If you are going from #100 to T14, than you probably need to be much closer to top 10% or better. Sort of analogous to OCi at BigLaw...but you knew all of this already and I don't think I am really adding much.

Purplebook
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Purplebook » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:55 pm

Mike, I just thought about two questions based on your last blog post.

1. Does this scholarship negotiation power hold true for people going to the T7? Your blog post specifically referenced T14 to T21. Maybe this was just to highlight an example, but I'd like to know whether it's a matter of candidates simply having more bargaining power among these schools if you don't mind.
2. Does it hold true for admits who are below one or both medians at any school?

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:04 pm

Purplebook wrote:Mike, I just thought about two questions based on your last blog post.

1. Does this scholarship negotiation power hold true for people going to the T7? Your blog post specifically referenced T14 to T21. Maybe this was just to highlight an example, but I'd like to know whether it's a matter of candidates simply having more bargaining power among these schools if you don't mind.
2. Does it hold true for admits who are below one or both medians at any school?


Stop trying to make the T7 a thing. But anyway I don't think I'm above both of my T4's medians and I got them to up my scholarship by 50%. Just an anecdote but there's no harm in trying.

ZVBXRPL
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby ZVBXRPL » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:54 pm

Mike,

Washington University School of Law in St. Louis made a law school parody video for Above the Law. The video is in the "this is Sportscenter" theme. Check it out--it's pretty, pretty, pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sIvlHpm ... r_embedded

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:11 am

Oh man, that is clever. I sorta feel like it may be lost on some until you have been in a law school but maybe not. Actually probably not. "Brian, what are you going" from Tamanaha was hilarious.

It's all funny because it's all true.


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