Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby nothingtosee » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:42 pm

Irish11 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Awesome data here: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/first- ... ion-cycle/


Based on that low 175-180 number, do you think schools like H with large class sizes might dip into lower GPAs to keep their high 75th mark? It's hard to see a really huge number of high scorers applying late.


H is already doing this. Compare:
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and
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WichitaShocker
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby WichitaShocker » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:56 pm

Spivey,

Thank you for doing this thread, and posting this data. I have a question about your interpretation of the data. Why do you think there is a relatively small drop in applicants with a 160-164 compared to the other score ranges?

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pylon
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby pylon » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:16 pm

Filled out your survey - thanks for all that you guys do!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:47 pm

pylon wrote:Filled out your survey - thanks for all that you guys do!


Thank you thank you! We have had about 500 visitors to our website today and only 20 have taken the survey. That makes me a vey sad Panda :(

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:58 pm

WichitaShocker wrote:Spivey,

Thank you for doing this thread, and posting this data. I have a question about your interpretation of the data. Why do you think there is a relatively small drop in applicants with a 160-164 compared to the other score ranges?


There was a rather significant drop in that bandwidth last cycle. So with relatively small data, this is often likely to happen. Think about it like this, after the increases at the top last year you heard some noise from elite schools that things were stable at the top and everything looked great for the future. That was based on one year (and the previous year had been down) and really small data sets. I posted something along those lines -- that we didn't really have anything to go on to say all good at the top for this year. Sure enough, look at the 170+ now....not all good (for a law school).

The point being I really wouldn't read much into these fluctuations for meaning, rather just take the static decline as a good thing.

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Sinatra
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Sinatra » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:16 pm

Thanks for the info, Spivey.

did my part and took the survey

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WichitaShocker
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby WichitaShocker » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:07 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
WichitaShocker wrote:Spivey,

Thank you for doing this thread, and posting this data. I have a question about your interpretation of the data. Why do you think there is a relatively small drop in applicants with a 160-164 compared to the other score ranges?


There was a rather significant drop in that bandwidth last cycle. So with relatively small data, this is often likely to happen. Think about it like this, after the increases at the top last year you heard some noise from elite schools that things were stable at the top and everything looked great for the future. That was based on one year (and the previous year had been down) and really small data sets. I posted something along those lines -- that we didn't really have anything to go on to say all good at the top for this year. Sure enough, look at the 170+ now....not all good (for a law school).

The point being I really wouldn't read much into these fluctuations for meaning, rather just take the static decline as a good thing.


Thank you for your reply. I took the survey and am excited to see the results!

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LSATneurotic
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby LSATneurotic » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:49 pm

Dear venerable former admissions officers:

I wanted to ask about LSAT retakes. Obviously someone who scores 172 as opposed to 170 is a slightly stronger candidate. Does that logic apply to people who retake as well? If I only improve my LSAT by a point or two, will that affect scholarship offers/admissions chances?

Thanks for all that you do/keeping us safe from bad admissions outcomes.

Respectfully,

Neurotic

Lions1913
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Lions1913 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:19 pm

...
Last edited by Lions1913 on Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby haus » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:50 pm

LSATneurotic wrote:Dear venerable former admissions officers:

I wanted to ask about LSAT retakes. Obviously someone who scores 172 as opposed to 170 is a slightly stronger candidate. Does that logic apply to people who retake as well? If I only improve my LSAT by a point or two, will that affect scholarship offers/admissions chances?

Thanks for all that you do/keeping us safe from bad admissions outcomes.

Respectfully,

Neurotic

I think you might find this Spivey blog post to be on point.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistak ... at-advice/

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby haus » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:03 pm

Lions1913 wrote:Spivey,
First, big fan of what are you doing here. Thanks so much for taking questions!

Re: decline of applications. I'm wondering where I might be able to see the data? I'd love to mine it a bit. I'm also interested in your thoughts on the impact it will have on splitters/reverse splitters.

I suspect that the data he is referring to is here:

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... ear-volume

sadly it is only summary type info, but if one that page you follow the 'DATA' link on the left you might find some interesting info to play with.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:37 pm

haus wrote:
LSATneurotic wrote:Dear venerable former admissions officers:

I wanted to ask about LSAT retakes. Obviously someone who scores 172 as opposed to 170 is a slightly stronger candidate. Does that logic apply to people who retake as well? If I only improve my LSAT by a point or two, will that affect scholarship offers/admissions chances?

Thanks for all that you do/keeping us safe from bad admissions outcomes.

Respectfully,

Neurotic

I think you might find this Spivey blog post to be on point.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistak ... at-advice/


Haus is correct and I would retake 100% of the time if I thought I could go up by just a point.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:39 pm

haus wrote:
Lions1913 wrote:Spivey,
First, big fan of what are you doing here. Thanks so much for taking questions!

Re: decline of applications. I'm wondering where I might be able to see the data? I'd love to mine it a bit. I'm also interested in your thoughts on the impact it will have on splitters/reverse splitters.

I suspect that the data he is referring to is here:

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... ear-volume

sadly it is only summary type info, but if one that page you follow the 'DATA' link on the left you might find some interesting info to play with.


Haus is again correct.

The more granular data that isn't publically available is here, it comes straight from LSAC:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/first- ... ion-cycle/

And thanks for being a fan!

Lions1913
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Lions1913 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:28 pm

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Last edited by Lions1913 on Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:02 am

I want to take a second before my day gets super busy to thank everyone who has taken our Admissions Office Survey. We are 40% complete! Once we get to 100% I will publish the results.

If you haven't done so, please consider it! It will only take 5 minutes, tops. Here is the link and many many thanks!

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/qualit ... ce-survey/

Raistlin99
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Raistlin99 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:35 pm

Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions - this thread is really helpful.
I have a question about writing an LSAT addendum. Here's the situation:

1st take = 164 (prepared for about a month, taking 1 full practice test before game day. Definitely underestimated what I was up against)
2nd take = 164 (prepared extensively, averaging 175 over my final 10 PT's. Got really sick a couple days before the exam and wasn't able to put my best foot forward)
3rd take = Will find out in January

I would like to submit my applications as soon as scores are released, and, with that in mind, I figured it would be a good idea to start working on an addendum in the event that I scored closer to my average. Put simply, I'm not sure what I should talk about / how I should approach the addendum. What I described above is the truth, but I feel like explaining the circumstances surrounding the first two scores will sound like I'm making excuses. Any suggestions as to what I should emphasize? I realize schools will focus on the highest score, but I imagine they'll be curious if my score jumps to a 170+ after two consecutive 164's.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:52 am

.
Last edited by PeanutsNJam on Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:45 am

Raistlin99 wrote:Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions - this thread is really helpful.
I have a question about writing an LSAT addendum. Here's the situation:

1st take = 164 (prepared for about a month, taking 1 full practice test before game day. Definitely underestimated what I was up against)
2nd take = 164 (prepared extensively, averaging 175 over my final 10 PT's. Got really sick a couple days before the exam and wasn't able to put my best foot forward)
3rd take = Will find out in January

I would like to submit my applications as soon as scores are released, and, with that in mind, I figured it would be a good idea to start working on an addendum in the event that I scored closer to my average. Put simply, I'm not sure what I should talk about / how I should approach the addendum. What I described above is the truth, but I feel like explaining the circumstances surrounding the first two scores will sound like I'm making excuses. Any suggestions as to what I should emphasize? I realize schools will focus on the highest score, but I imagine they'll be curious if my score jumps to a 170+ after two consecutive 164's.


I wouldn't write an addendum for this. I think we have some blogs on why, or it is in this massively long thread. I don't really see the value-add though, they are only going to care about your high score and its not like you went from 150 to 170+.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:52 am

Also, I think Raistlin was a wizard in a chose your own adventure book I read/played when I was like 8 in 1981. Please tell me that is where your screen name comes from!

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appind
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby appind » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:23 pm

Hi former admissions officers,
I have a general question about PS and its relation to the addenda. If a PS is about a difficult experience during college or professional work, then I was wondering if that PS can implicitly act as an addendum for issues in one's history during that time. This would make it needless that one write addenda because the experience described in the ps can explain the issues.

So, if someone had a poor performance during college or one took longer than necessary to finish the program, and the ps is about a difficulty one was going through during the years in the program, then may be the admissions can connect the dots by themselves. Does one need to explicitly connect the experience with the issues in the addenda?

It seems that since such a ps talks about the difficult experience during the years of the program it automatically serves to explain the issues in that time period also.
Last edited by appind on Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bjsesq
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby bjsesq » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:25 pm

Strongly considering doing a "Deck the halls with the dames of Spivey" song.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:53 am

Hi all,

We are getting super-busy with post DEC LSAT work/deadlines and it looks like things will stay this way through New Years. So apologies if our responses are a bit slower this time of year.

A few things to look forward to...

Jayme McKellop, who works with us and was the Director of Admissions for Chicago Law School the past 5 years until last is writing a blog on how to Skype interview. If you have some interviews coming up this could really help.

A Penn Law 2L is going to be writing a blog for us on her experiences there.

Our Quality of Admissions Office Survey is 50% done with responses. I'd love to get this out as soon as we can so please if you haven't done so take it (5 minutes tops) and share it anywhere you'd like! There are already some fascinating outliers coming out in Offices I thought would be highly regarded being the exact opposite, and visa versa. It's going to be really interesting when all is said and done!

Many thanks everyone! In the meantime enjoy the soft music of bjsesq.

Mike

Lions1913
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Lions1913 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:41 pm

...
Last edited by Lions1913 on Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:53 pm

Lions1913 wrote:When law schools report GPAs and LSATs, do they report the ones that you are accepted with, or your final grades? Will they see my first semester grades?


Whatever you send to LSAC will be what they report at the end of the year. So, if you never send in another update to LSAC, your GPA remains. If you send in final/updated transcripts, your GPA will reflect that change. I believe some schools may require you to send them in to LSAC or at least request that you do send them in.

Cheers,
KB

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Attax
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Re: Q&A with former Harvard, Chicago, Vandy Admissions officers

Postby Attax » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:02 pm

Tried taking the survey, but it wouldn't select the boxes I picked


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