Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:27 pm

If you don't live in Crowder Courtyard your 1L year you are a disappointment to me.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby wannabelawstudent » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:29 pm

Good way to cut down on debt I suppose.

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1armedscissor
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby 1armedscissor » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:42 pm

Hi Mike,

Quick transfer application question for you. I screwed up in applying as an undergrad to a law school: I accidentally submitted my 'Why X school' essay to 'Why Z school.' Oops. I'm considering transferring to that school now.

My target school is HYS and I'm applying from the bottom Top 10.

Do you think Adcomm will disqualify me based on my past error?
Should I bother to apologize for my error in an addendum, or hope they'll forget about it?

Thanks!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:06 pm

1armedscissor wrote:Hi Mike,

Quick transfer application question for you. I screwed up in applying as an undergrad to a law school: I accidentally submitted my 'Why X school' essay to 'Why Z school.' Oops. I'm considering transferring to that school now.

My target school is HYS and I'm applying from the bottom Top 10.

Do you think Adcomm will disqualify me based on my past error?
Should I bother to apologize for my error in an addendum, or hope they'll forget about it?

Thanks!


I can't imagine they will even know. Please read my next blog post, that will be posted tomorrow, about transferring before you ultimately do.

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gatorgirl2012
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby gatorgirl2012 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:09 pm

Spivey,

I'm really digging the Fight Club allegory! Thank you for your awesome blog posts. I'm a pretty positive person, but that last post got me more amped! Thanks :)

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:17 pm

gatorgirl2012 wrote:Spivey,

I'm really digging the Fight Club allegory! Thank you for your awesome blog posts. I'm a pretty positive person, but that last post got me more amped! Thanks :)


It's a great book. Stay positive in law school it is huge in the hiring process.

chadbrochill
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby chadbrochill » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:38 am

.
Last edited by chadbrochill on Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:00 pm

chadbrochill wrote:Hey Mike!

Love your blog and thread! On your blog for Mistake #5: Oxymoronic LSAT advice you basically confirm a big question people on TLS is concerned with, which is that schools only look at the highest LSAT. Are prior scores really meaningless though? I would think several low scores and one outlier high score would cast doubt on the candidate's true abilities (if thats what adcoms are even looking for?). Also is there a stigma about a very high number of retakes like 4+? Wouldn't it seem inevitable that their score would increase eventually?


Mr. Brochill:

I would not exactly use the word "meaningless" in that you are correct the admissions officers see the scores. So they may have some ever so small subconscious impact. But just keep in my they data sort by high score, submit to ABA by high score, and USNWR only sees the high score.

So I will out it this way. if I personally had a 157, 160, and 176, I would apply with confidence to most of the top 10 schools.

I hope this helps!

-Mike

oh and p.s. to all, next blog post will be up very soon. Editing it now. I think most people will tell me to get lost on this one.

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North
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby North » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:06 pm

Hey Mike, is there any credited way you know of for an EDer to hustle for scholarship money?

I'm also glad to see you back here.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:03 pm


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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:03 pm

North, stay tuned on blog.

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North
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby North » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:04 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:North, stay tuned on blog.

Will do. Thanks, Mike!

wannabelawstudent
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby wannabelawstudent » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:11 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Mistake #2: Shanri-Law is up http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

Yo Mike, in your opinion does the advice in this post apply to Clerkships and Academia jobs (which might be a reason why someone would transfer from being top 10% at a 15-20 school to HYS) as well or just firm jobs?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:35 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Mistake #2: Shanri-Law is up http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/

Yo Mike, in your opinion does the advice in this post apply to Clerkships and Academia jobs (which might be a reason why someone would transfer from being top 10% at a 15-20 school to HYS) as well or just firm jobs?


Nope. Those would be good reasons to move up. I was essentially just speaking about "BigLaw" I should add that in right now, and will!

Edit: Good catch, added a disclaimer.

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JXander
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby JXander » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:51 pm

Thanks for these posts, Spivey--especially the wait-list one. I really wish I had consulted you at the beginning of my cycle.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:56 pm

JXander wrote:Thanks for these posts, Spivey--especially the wait-list one. I really wish I had consulted you at the beginning of my cycle.


I was cheap back then too :)

I think I may do a special offer for a one-time WL consult (which will involve a mock interview, if the client wants, plus an additional hour of consultation. I will post the specifics on my website tonight. It'll be a sorta limited time or person (like first 10 who respond) kind of thing because I really can't have anything conflict with A Game of Thrones.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby DoveBodyWash » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:29 pm

Mike,

Thank you so much for answering our questions! Your blog/twitter have been particularly helpful :)
[Wannabe referred me to them lol]

I had a general question about class size and how law schools hit their target size (often very accurately)

I'm assuming that it's not hard for schools to predict their general yield rates based on past data, but what happens when there is an excess? For example if a school's target is 300 students, but 350 or 400 students deposit at the first deadline, does the school just embrace them with open arms? Or are there ways that it can indirectly "cut" students? Or are the predicted yield rates so reliable that enough students will withdraw on their own by the second/third deposit?

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sublime
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby sublime » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:31 pm

..

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:13 pm

cusenation wrote:Mike,

Thank you so much for answering our questions! Your blog/twitter have been particularly helpful :)
[Wannabe referred me to them lol]

I had a general question about class size and how law schools hit their target size (often very accurately)

I'm assuming that it's not hard for schools to predict their general yield rates based on past data, but what happens when there is an excess? For example if a school's target is 300 students, but 350 or 400 students deposit at the first deadline, does the school just embrace them with open arms? Or are there ways that it can indirectly "cut" students? Or are the predicted yield rates so reliable that enough students will withdraw on their own by the second/third deposit?


This one is really easy. See my WL blog for reference but basically you WL a great number of people and use the WL extensively and patiently. To keep from overextending (a friend of mine was fired for this, sadly) you simply admit a certain number (based on past data and cautiously) and work the WL. Actually, though, in your example you would want more than 400 seat deposits if your target was 300. You will melt more than 100 certainly. Let's say you lost 150 from those 400. You would want to admit about 70 (at least) hoping 50 would come, so on and so on as the summer progresses. You play this game (and have your group in your back pocket that you really think will come at the bitter end if need be) until first day of classes.

Hitting your enrollment numbers if you are all but maybe at the bottom 50 of prestige schools is not a hard thing to do. Beating the schools around you in the other metrics is what the competition is all about.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby wannabelawstudent » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:17 pm

How many students do schools lose from their first to second deposit? I realize this depends on the school but 25% in the example you gave seems really high.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:46 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:How many students do schools lose from their first to second deposit? I realize this depends on the school but 25% in the example you gave seems really high.


Why? You are all admitting the same people...

Plus you are a safety for another group of people.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby wannabelawstudent » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:08 pm

That makes sense. I think I'm underestimating how much waitlist movement there actually is.

LRGhost
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby LRGhost » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:13 pm

Slightly awkward question I've been contending with but unable to answer:

I'm WL'ed at a couple schools I'm visiting. One, I do not have a meeting with admissions though I need to go to their office to get a map or whatever. I do not anticipate being able to speak with any officers though I would obviously relish that opportunity. How should I dress for this? Is a blazer/oxford/tie/wool trousers/leather shoes too much? At another school, I do have a meeting with someone. Is the former outfit too much? It's not a terribly formal blazer, if there is such a thing, and I imagine it's better to be slightly overdressed than under, but this has been racking my head for a while.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:25 pm

LRGhost wrote:Slightly awkward question I've been contending with but unable to answer:

I'm WL'ed at a couple schools I'm visiting. One, I do not have a meeting with admissions though I need to go to their office to get a map or whatever. I do not anticipate being able to speak with any officers though I would obviously relish that opportunity. How should I dress for this? Is a blazer/oxford/tie/wool trousers/leather shoes too much? At another school, I do have a meeting with someone. Is the former outfit too much? It's not a terribly formal blazer, if there is such a thing, and I imagine it's better to be slightly overdressed than under, but this has been racking my head for a while.


You can't really overdress unless you wear a tux or something like that. Being professional still carries weight trust me. Just ask to speak with an admissions officer, very politely, and I imagine you can. Put another way, when I did admissions if someone on the WL was sitting out front and our front office told me I would always go out and introduce myself.

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JXander
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby JXander » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:31 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Just ask to speak with an admissions officer, very politely, and I imagine you can.

If we do ask you speak with one at the school at which we are WL'ed...what exactly do we say? Basically put a brief LOCI into words? Ask when we expect to receive a notification?

I know this seems like a silly question, but I am considering visiting my dream school (which I've already visited and sent three LOCI's since my February WL) and putting myself out there in person. I am just not sure what to communicate to them that I haven't already.


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