Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

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bjsesq
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:36 am

MikeSpivey wrote:(yea, it's always more funny when you don't have to explain it)


You did fine. Wanna make this a joke thread for a bit until the mods figure out what to do with you?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:37 am

bjsesq wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:(yea, it's always more funny when you don't have to explain it)


You did fine. Wanna make this a joke thread for a bit until the mods figure out what to do with you?


Exactly kinda what I was doing. Agreed! Bring 'em on!

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bjsesq
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:39 am

I think From Justin to Kelly is an awful movie but a perfect description of a human centipede.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:47 am

Come on, Spivey. Bring your A game.


Nail polish is lipstick for deaf people

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bjsesq
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:16 am

Gotta be honest, Spivey: this whole joke thread is feeling a bit one sided at the moment.

A Poem Oscar Pistorius' Recently Passed SO Would Have Written, If She Could

Roses are red
Violets are glorious
Don't try to surprise
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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:26 am

So, in 1978 the French and Americans fought a bloody war. A great French general was leading his platoon across a field when a spy reported there is an America soldier over the next hill. The French general commanded of his best fighter "sneak over the hill and kill the American!"

The scout disappears over the hill and immediately there is gunfire and smoke. The scout never returns.

The French general, frustrated, looks to his crack unit of 10 soldiers and commands the same "Go kill that American scum!"

The 10 soldiers disappear over the hill...again gunfire, loud noise, smoke. No one returns.

The French general is exasperated. He is highly decorated and has never seen anything like this. He decides to put an end to it. To his squadron of 500 most badass soldiers he says "Go. Now. Kill that American scum! Do not return until he is dead and 6 feet under"

Over the hill they proceed. There are explosions, screams, a ton of smoke. Finally, a lone French survivor comes crawling back, bloody and wounded. He makes his was to his General as fast as he can. "Sir, we were wrong! it is a trap!, there are TWO Americans!"

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bjsesq
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:35 am

I appreciate a good french people are pussies joke.

I like to make offensive jokes, as you can likely tell. I get a lot of shit for it sometimes. Sometimes I get arrogant about how "brave" I am for continuing to tell them even when they upset others. That's why I stopped telling downs syndrome jokes. I didn't want to get a big head.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:58 am

I have French ancestory so I can make fun of my great great great grandfather.

kfb2112
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby kfb2112 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:25 pm

Does meeting with admissions officers for top 6 schools have an impact on admissions chances? If so, would one request a meeting say sometime after an app was sent off (maybe in late Sep) or would one just defer to admissions events? My intuition is the latter.

Also would emailing admissions to ask to meet with say someone from their PI career office be too pushy prior to acceptance?

Thanks!

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby danmcc413 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:09 pm

My current LSAC GPA is a 3.66, but after this semester, which will be an extremely easy one relative to past semesters, it should be over or at a 3.7. My question is, assuming I get an LSAT score I'm okay with this September, do you think I will benefit more from applying early in the cycle as soon as I get my score back, or holding off and giving my GPA that extra bump to 3.7 and applying early December?

Thanks!

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:47 pm

kfb2112 wrote:Does meeting with admissions officers for top 6 schools have an impact on admissions chances? If so, would one request a meeting say sometime after an app was sent off (maybe in late Sep) or would one just defer to admissions events? My intuition is the latter.

Also would emailing admissions to ask to meet with say someone from their PI career office be too pushy prior to acceptance?

Thanks!


It depends on the individual school because some schools don't set up appointments for prospective students. In general, showing interest in a school is a good thing and making a favorable impression on someone in the admissions office is also a good thing. Making a good impressions does not have to be in any particular setting, so at an event is fine.

The second question is also depending on the school, but it doesn't hurt to ask nicely. If they have a policy that they'll only set up appointments for admitted students, they'll let you know.

Cheers,
KB

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:50 pm

danmcc413 wrote:My current LSAC GPA is a 3.66, but after this semester, which will be an extremely easy one relative to past semesters, it should be over or at a 3.7. My question is, assuming I get an LSAT score I'm okay with this September, do you think I will benefit more from applying early in the cycle as soon as I get my score back, or holding off and giving my GPA that extra bump to 3.7 and applying early December?

Thanks!


Applying early is usually a good thing, so I'd err on the side of early. But early December is still on the early side of things in the bigger picture. You can - and should - send an updated transcript to LSAC after your fall semester and ask the schools to hold the decision until they get it.

Cheers,
KB

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby sorcer » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:24 pm

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Last edited by sorcer on Thu May 28, 2015 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:30 am

sorcer wrote:(I wrote the following as a reply to another thread, but it seems like everyone already checked out of that thread, so I decided to post it here again. I appreciate your help!)

I received a 174 in June (first try; undisclosed test), but my LSAC GPA is slightly below 3.7. I am several years out of college, and I would consider my softs to be quite strong. I am a foreign national; I did hear that foreign nationals who studied at a university in the US are placed in the same category as other US applicants, but I'm not sure if this is true. I am still unsure of whether I should retake the LSAT, as H is my target school. I would happily attend CCN or one of the lower T14 schools depending on scholarship, but H is still my target school (would have included S as well, but my GPA just doesn't seem to be high enough).

Since my GPA is quite below the median, I would assume a retake would be wise. Is there a significant difference between applying in September and applying in October (given my circumstances)? I was planning on applying pretty much as soon as applications opened in September if my June LSAT turned out to be optimal. I read on Spivey's blog that applying earlier at H seems to be increasingly making a difference (although this wouldn't compare to a higher LSAT). Any thoughts?


Though the conventional wisdom is to retake if you feel you can do better, in this case I don't think it is necessary. Because your 174 is already above the median, it already is an attractive score. If you have good work experience, that will also help at HLS.
I'd advise to apply on the early side with your current score.
Cheers,
KB

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby sorcer » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:01 am

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Last edited by sorcer on Thu May 28, 2015 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:07 am

sorcer wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
sorcer wrote:(I wrote the following as a reply to another thread, but it seems like everyone already checked out of that thread, so I decided to post it here again. I appreciate your help!)

I received a 174 in June (first try; undisclosed test), but my LSAC GPA is slightly below 3.7. I am several years out of college, and I would consider my softs to be quite strong. I am a foreign national; I did hear that foreign nationals who studied at a university in the US are placed in the same category as other US applicants, but I'm not sure if this is true. I am still unsure of whether I should retake the LSAT, as H is my target school. I would happily attend CCN or one of the lower T14 schools depending on scholarship, but H is still my target school (would have included S as well, but my GPA just doesn't seem to be high enough).

Since my GPA is quite below the median, I would assume a retake would be wise. Is there a significant difference between applying in September and applying in October (given my circumstances)? I was planning on applying pretty much as soon as applications opened in September if my June LSAT turned out to be optimal. I read on Spivey's blog that applying earlier at H seems to be increasingly making a difference (although this wouldn't compare to a higher LSAT). Any thoughts?


Though the conventional wisdom is to retake if you feel you can do better, in this case I don't think it is necessary. Because your 174 is already above the median, it already is an attractive score. If you have good work experience, that will also help at HLS.
I'd advise to apply on the early side with your current score.
Cheers,
KB


Oh wow, thank you so much for your advice! I feel much more comfortable with my current score now that I've heard from such a credible source. I think my work experiences are pretty strong, given that I worked under the government, in the military, and at an international organization under the UN. I believe my two letters of recommendation will also be solid, and I'm working to get a nice PS drafted, so that I can submit everything in September. Thank you so much for your advice once again! It really made my day (more like my next few months)!


Good luck! Glad I could help!

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:25 pm

We have a new blog up at our website on how admissions files are read.

Also, we are not going to link as much from here anymore (other than breaking data, we still will), at least until we figure out what the rules are, but will always tweet this stuff at our @SpiveyConsult twitter account.

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Post removed.

Postby mornincounselor » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:21 pm

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby jcdetroit » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:28 pm

Hey Mike, given the increase in 170+ scores, do you anticipate medians at T14 schools increasing this year? Or will the decrease in 166-170 scores balance this out?

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:30 pm

mornincounselor wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:We have a new blog up at our website on how admissions files are read.

Also, we are not going to link as much from here anymore (other than breaking data, we still will), at least until we figure out what the rules are, but will always tweet this stuff at our @SpiveyConsult twitter account.


Hey Mike, I read your recent blog. How exactly do applicants let admissions officers know about them being the first in their family to attend college? Is this something that should be expressed in a ps or why x essay, or is it worthy of a diversity statement?

Karen mentions in your (incredibly useful and informative) compiled and sorted pdf of this thread, that it's important to have the right attitude and not to "invite [them] to your pity party." If the only mention of it is a sentence such as: "Growing up in small farm town to working class parents whom never had the opportunity to pursue post-secondary education, I could never imagine attending an incredible law school in the heart of our nations financial capital", is that on-point?

Also, does something like this actually provide a recognizable boost assuming splitter numbers?


I don't think it is worth a diversity statement, so agreed if you need to fit it in it would be better in a Why X, maybe a PS, and certainly for schools that interview. Also, keep in mind that some schools ask this in the application.

I think your sentence is spot-on. I'd go so far as to say perfect.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby w0w » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:06 pm

jcdetroit wrote:Hey Mike, given the increase in 170+ scores, do you anticipate medians at T14 schools increasing this year? Or will the decrease in 166-170 scores balance this out?



Interested in this too!

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MT Cicero » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:50 pm

w0w wrote:
jcdetroit wrote:Hey Mike, given the increase in 170+ scores, do you anticipate medians at T14 schools increasing this year? Or will the decrease in 166-170 scores balance this out?



Interested in this too!


Outside the T6, no school reached a 170 median. This means that every school in the lower T14 had at least 50% of the class at 169 or lower. Given this, here is how the percentages equate to actual numbers for Spivey's year-over-year data as of May:

170-180: increase of 156 applicants
160-169: decrease of 1132 applicants

I see little chance for many lower T14 schools to turn 156 extra 170+ scores into higher medians when 50-75% of the C/O 2016 fell into the category that had a decrease of 1132 160-169 scorers.

Just my $.02.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby BananaSplit626 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:53 pm

Hi,

I'm new around here but soaking up everything I can. This thread and PDF by Mike have been very helpful. Thank you Spivey Consulting!

That being said, my question is about splitter retaking. If an applicant is splitting with GPA well below the 25th (3.2-3.3), and a 170+ LSAT, would it behoove him or her to retake for scholarship purposes? In other words, is there $ to be squeezed out of the lower T-14 with a 173-174 as opposed to 170-171? Or is there a point where GPA simply handcuffs the applicant and there is no difference between 1 point over median and 3-4 points over?

I'm primarily wondering about scholarship implications, not just getting into a higher-ranked school. Hopefully this isn't too specific of a question to answer. Thanks!

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:55 pm

Soco Law wrote:
w0w wrote:
jcdetroit wrote:Hey Mike, given the increase in 170+ scores, do you anticipate medians at T14 schools increasing this year? Or will the decrease in 166-170 scores balance this out?



Interested in this too!


Outside the T6, no school reached a 170 median. This means that every school in the lower T14 had at least 50% of the class at 169 or lower. Given this, here is how the percentages equate to actual numbers for Spivey's year-over-year data as of May:

170-180: increase of 156 applicants
160-169: decrease of 1132 applicants

I see little chance for many lower T14 schools to turn 156 extra 170+ scores into higher medians when 50-75% of the C/O 2016 fell into the category that had a decrease of 1132 160-169 scorers.

Just my $.02.


Soco said it before I could chime in, but more like a statistical laser versus my blathering.

Last cycle 1 school in the t14 moved their median LSAT up (Stanford) and 8 went down. For this cycle, I would expect fewer schools than 8 going down, but I doubt there will be market improvements.

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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:28 am

Here are the 20 law schools that have seen the greatest (pick your word here, greatest sounds odd) drop in applications 2008-2013.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-20 ... 2008-2013/


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