Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:43 am

telef wrote:Why do you think this is, given the lower number of applicants this year, previously quoted by Mike?


It's all about timing. I think that many schools admitted earlier and didn't take them off the WL, but prior to it. That just leaves fewer spaces left to fill from the WL.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:43 am

Long_Time_Lurker wrote:Hello Mike and Karen,

I had a quick question about diversity statements I was hoping you could address. If it is too specific to a single person though and not general enough, I completely understand.

I'm a 22 year old white male from a middle class (perhaps slightly lower-middle) family. However, for a period of several months in high school, my family's house was foreclosed on. We lost probably half of our possessions because we didn't have any place to store them and needed the space in the U-Haul/Storage Unit we rented for other things. For 3-4 months my family of four lived between a motel and a single bedroom of my step-dad's mom's townhouse.

I just don't know if I should write a statement about this experience as socioeconomic diversity. My family's financial situation was at an all time low then and it has improved a lot. Both of my parents changed careers and I really don't want it to seem as though I am attempting to capitalize on a rough time in my family's history.

Any help is really appreciated.


I'm glad you asked this question - it comes up every year, and sometimes it is clear when you should do it and sometimes it is a little less clear. As yourself a few questions first: Why not talk about this in your personal statement? Is this more along the lines of a temporary setback (one of life's experiences) or is this something that may define who you are and your overall outlook on things?

Speaking in general terms, many families go through touch economic times. It's unfortunately pretty common. And there is a big difference between going through a rough time and growing up socioeconomically disadvantaged. I am not saying that something like this can't be done as a topic for a DS, but it needs to be the right tone and have the right circumstances.

For the record, some topics that do not serve as great DS topics include: having an econ major, being tolerant of others who are different, and being left-handed. True stories.

Cheers,
KB

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:57 am

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
telef wrote:Why do you think this is, given the lower number of applicants this year, previously quoted by Mike?


It's all about timing. I think that many schools admitted earlier and didn't take them off the WL, but prior to it. That just leaves fewer spaces left to fill from the WL.



A bit more on this. When you look at the cycle data two things stand out:

1. The applicant and application count, which is down.

Total applicants 53,104 -7.4%, total applications 347,967 -8.6%

2. The applicants in the 170's, which is up.

170–174 2,189 7.4%
175–180 591 7.7%

So here is our best guess as to what happened, which Karen had alluded to. Early cycle schools saw the continued decrease in applicants and the data from the last cycle and made more admits, knowing they would need to. But, at the very top it did not quite shake out like that, and the schools at the top ended up sitting pretty well going into the summer. Take, for example, UVa which seems to have been able to all but pull up the draw bridge on admits off the WL, so much so they are already stocking next year's class with deferred admits from the WL.

WL movement often occurs as a classic domino effect. Schools in the top 3-6 take people, thus schools 7-14 lose people and take people, etc etc. That effect has not happened like it has in past years.

There definitively has been WL activity, it just has not happened in a few massive waves like one might expect. Such a wave could still happen, it would just be later than usual. In the meantime, there will still be plenty of schools, T14 and otherwise, that will continue to need to cherry pick off of the WL. Again though, it just might not come in massive numbers in sequential order.

kfb2112
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby kfb2112 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:10 am

Question on resumes: Many schools ask for a complete resume of everything you have done, with schools like Chicago asking for more details on what you did as well. What is the thinking on having a resume longer than one page? As someone who reads resumes often for new hires we would throw out anything longer than a page as unprofessional. I wonder how admissions offices look at this? Sorry if this has already been addressed by you all!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:40 am

kfb2112 wrote:Question on resumes: Many schools ask for a complete resume of everything you have done, with schools like Chicago asking for more details on what you did as well. What is the thinking on having a resume longer than one page? As someone who reads resumes often for new hires we would throw out anything longer than a page as unprofessional. I wonder how admissions offices look at this? Sorry if this has already been addressed by you all!


For many schools, a two-page resume is completely and totally fine -- it's not the same rule as a resume for jobs. There are some schools (Yale is one) that prefers a one-page resume, and they will make it clear on the instructions.

kfb2112
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby kfb2112 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:37 pm

Thanks for the reply! Any way we could get a breakdown of what schools want a 1 page? It can be hard to tell from the sometimes vague instructions. It may be a helpful resource to all those applying this cycle and in the future.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:16 pm

kfb2112 wrote:Thanks for the reply! Any way we could get a breakdown of what schools want a 1 page? It can be hard to tell from the sometimes vague instructions. It may be a helpful resource to all those applying this cycle and in the future.


I can only think of two from this entire past cycle that insisted on them, Yale and one of the California schools (I can't even remember which one), so it is really rare.

That said, as applications start opening up we will post on here every time we see a school that asks for 1 page.

The much more important question to ask is, "is everything on my resume value added and also not reiterative AND, am I leaving something out that might be differentiating in a positive way" and not "is this 1 page Calilbri font 11.5.?

Pau.C.
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Pau.C. » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:37 pm

.
Last edited by Pau.C. on Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:19 pm

Pau.C. wrote:Hello, I posted this earlier but it may have gotten lost.

If I am a reapplicant, I know that a new LOR can be helpful. What I am wondering is how important is a new one if a school does not require it. Is it seen as a good addition, or is it negligible?

Also, one of my LOR writers from last year has offered to write me another one if I should need it. How would it look to submit a different letter this year but from the same professor? Would it look good that he/she has more nice things to say about me?

Thanks again for all the help! Can't tell you how much I appreciate it!


For reapplicants, the more new additions to the application the better. This probably works like *new*, LSAT>uGPA>work exp>masters program grades>new PS>new rec, but as long as you are not blindly asking near strangers for said new rec, I would encourage you to get one.

Sorry for the delay!

Mike

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:04 pm

We posted data on the 25 most and least expensive law schools at:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/

Enjoy, and please let me know if you see anything that you things looks askew. Our methodology is in the posts, and we may change to update when we get more data.

NYSprague
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby NYSprague » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:54 am

MikeSpivey wrote:We posted data on the 25 most and least expensive law schools at:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/

Enjoy, and please let me know if you see anything that you things looks askew. Our methodology is in the posts, and we may change to update when we get more data.


Your blog isn't loading for me, but that might be on my end.

Congrats and thanks to you for joining LSTs board of directors. I'm very happy to see you supporting LST.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:05 pm

NYSprague wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:We posted data on the 25 most and least expensive law schools at:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/

Enjoy, and please let me know if you see anything that you things looks askew. Our methodology is in the posts, and we may change to update when we get more data.


Your blog isn't loading for me, but that might be on my end.

Congrats and thanks to you for joining LSTs board of directors. I'm very happy to see you supporting LST.


Hmmm, yea it's down. That's never happened before. (we weren't searchable on google once but it has never gone down. I just paid my domain fee too, so that can't be it.)

HELP~!~~ Haus???

(also, thanks for the congrats!)

Edit: Seems to have fixed itself, now it is just loading very slowly. Maybe we have massive traffic :)

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:25 pm

Curious about what's to come in the next application cycle? Here are some thoughts on the subject:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/what-w ... look-like/

rebexness
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby rebexness » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:25 pm

Mike/Karen,

Have you guys thought about doing another Q/A discussion like you did several times for last years applicant group?

pretty pretty please?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:34 pm

rebexness wrote:Mike/Karen,

Have you guys thought about doing another Q/A discussion like you did several times for last years applicant group?

pretty pretty please?


We are! Already tested the software, just looking for a possible guest admissions dean and a time. Will keep you all notified!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:37 pm

So lonely in our new chamber. ECHO>>>>>>>>>. Yep, it bounced back :/

rebexness
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby rebexness » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:13 pm

#freespivey

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:31 pm

rebexness wrote:#freespivey

+1

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby jenesaislaw » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:19 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
rebexness wrote:#freespivey

+1

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Clearly
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Clearly » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:49 am

#FREESPIVEY :lol:

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:10 am

Someone set up us the bomb!

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bjsesq
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:19 am

MikeSpivey wrote:Someone set up us the bomb!


I..... what?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:21 am

bjsesq wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Someone set up us the bomb!


I..... what?


Oh yea, I forgot I am old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_b ... long_to_us

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bjsesq
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:23 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Someone set up us the bomb!


I..... what?


Oh yea, I forgot I am old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_b ... long_to_us

Image

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:30 am

(yea, it's always more funny when you don't have to explain it)


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