Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

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teampeeta
Posts: 422
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby teampeeta » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:18 pm

Mike and Karen,

Is there a such thing as people underperforming their numbers or is that just TLS jargon?

I only ask because I'm a bit disappointed with my results this cycle (I have a 3.4-3.6 GPA and a 170-175 LSAT and am AA). I got rejected at HY and WL'd at Stanford. I applied on the late side, but I know there are others with numbers close to mine who were more successful. I don't think my app was horrible (I got a full-scholarship at UVA and accepted with a scholarship at Columbia), but I didn't quite crack the schools I was hoping to.

Is this just a case of too-great expectations or do my admissions results seem strange to you?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:47 am

teampeeta wrote:Mike and Karen,

Is there a such thing as people underperforming their numbers or is that just TLS jargon?

I only ask because I'm a bit disappointed with my results this cycle (I have a 3.4-3.6 GPA and a 170-175 LSAT and am AA). I got rejected at HY and WL'd at Stanford. I applied on the late side, but I know there are others with numbers close to mine who were more successful. I don't think my app was horrible (I got a full-scholarship at UVA and accepted with a scholarship at Columbia), but I didn't quite crack the schools I was hoping to.

Is this just a case of too-great expectations or do my admissions results seem strange to you?


Sorry that you aren't having the year that you hoped for. It's always disappointing when your application is denied. Yes, it is true that people underperform their numbers. Both Mike and I saw this happen every year that we were admissions officers -- it means that the application is not just about the numbers and adcomms do look at more than just those numbers when making a decision.

You do have some great choices this year! Congrats on that!

KB

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:51 am

riku33090 wrote:Hi,

This might be a dumb question but

What is the proper way to stay on the wait-list of your preferred school while not withdrawing from schools that already offered you admission.

I am wait-listed at 3 schools so far and accepted at one of my back up school with scholarships. I have until early May to deposit and I already asked for an extension. If I still don't hear back from my wait-listed schools by then should I just deposit first and keep riding on the wait-list?

Thanks

Unless the school asks you to withdraw from your WL'd schools, you aren't under any obligation to do so. In fact, it might be against the standards of good admissions practices (sometimes scholarships are exempt from those rules, tho).

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:57 am

DetroitRed wrote:Hi,

I have a question about personal statements. In everything I've read about personal statements, which at this point amounts to two books and several articles, I've learnt a lot. What I haven't come across, however, is advice concerning whether it is generally better to write a "why law school" PS as opposed to a "here's an interesting facet of my personality absent from my résumé" PS. I'm more inclined to write the latter, but I'm afraid I'll be at a disadvantage relative to those who write strong "why law school" PS. Is my fear well founded? As a former admissions officer, which would you have preferred to see?


You can write about either, but personally, I usually preferred to see the latter. I can also say that it was rare that I would finish reading an application and say "why do they want to go to law school?"

I have read good versions of both types, so there really is no clear answer -- only what makes sense for you. Go with your instincts here - if you are inclined to write about a facet of your personality, go for it!

KB

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:04 pm

Hey Detriot, in the next few weeks we are going to write a blog on the three critical elements to a PS (we tweeted a few weeks ago the three). Stay on us about that!

theycallmefoes
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby theycallmefoes » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:54 am

Hi Mike and Karen,

Any suggestions as to what to include in a LOCI to get off the wait list if you've already submitted a "Why X" with your application? Is it acceptable to reiterate some of the information? Also, should I address a below-median LSAT score if I did not previously do so? If so, should I include it in the LOCI, or should I submit a separate addendum?

Thanks!

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teampeeta
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby teampeeta » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:51 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
teampeeta wrote:Mike and Karen,

Is there a such thing as people underperforming their numbers or is that just TLS jargon?

I only ask because I'm a bit disappointed with my results this cycle (I have a 3.4-3.6 GPA and a 170-175 LSAT and am AA). I got rejected at HY and WL'd at Stanford. I applied on the late side, but I know there are others with numbers close to mine who were more successful. I don't think my app was horrible (I got a full-scholarship at UVA and accepted with a scholarship at Columbia), but I didn't quite crack the schools I was hoping to.

Is this just a case of too-great expectations or do my admissions results seem strange to you?


Sorry that you aren't having the year that you hoped for. It's always disappointing when your application is denied. Yes, it is true that people underperform their numbers. Both Mike and I saw this happen every year that we were admissions officers -- it means that the application is not just about the numbers and adcomms do look at more than just those numbers when making a decision.

You do have some great choices this year! Congrats on that!

KB


Thanks. Sorry to ask an obnoxious follow-up, but does it seem like I should've done better to you numbers-wise? Someone suggested that I sit out a year and reapply earlier. I don't think I'm going to, but it would be nice to have a more educated opinion.

dadownclub8
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby dadownclub8 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:06 pm

Hi Mike. I am thinking about quitting my full time job to study for the September LSAT. My inquiry is about the gap time between sometime in May to September. How negatively would it be seen? I've thought about moving from this job to a part time job but once my LSAT is done I would want full time work. Probably looks worse that I'm hoping around from job to job no? Should I fill in the time with volunteer work/interning at a law firm so there are no gaps or can I just focus on making sure my numbers are where they need to be? Thank you.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:27 pm

Here is a brief something on WL this cycle:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-su ... f-melting/

Busy busy! I owe people some answers to Qs!

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thevuch
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby thevuch » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:10 pm

how exactly would retaking in june for more scholarship money after youre already 2 deposits deep into a school workout?

say something like look heres my new score im thinking about sitting out unless i get more money?

or hey i got this new score to prove myself i think i deserve a reconsideration with my extra points?

and if youre already above the 75th do you think would care if youre 1 pt above it or 5 pts above? does it matter to them?

thanks yall are awesome

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:26 am

thevuch wrote:how exactly would retaking in june for more scholarship money after youre already 2 deposits deep into a school workout?

say something like look heres my new score im thinking about sitting out unless i get more money?

or hey i got this new score to prove myself i think i deserve a reconsideration with my extra points?

and if youre already above the 75th do you think would care if youre 1 pt above it or 5 pts above? does it matter to them?

thanks yall are awesome


Vuch,

If you are above the 75th I doubt it would matter at all.

If not, you can always express that with your new, mighty score you are thinking about sitting out a year and testing the waters next cycle.

Hope this helps!

Mike

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thevuch
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby thevuch » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:10 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
thevuch wrote:how exactly would retaking in june for more scholarship money after youre already 2 deposits deep into a school workout?

say something like look heres my new score im thinking about sitting out unless i get more money?

or hey i got this new score to prove myself i think i deserve a reconsideration with my extra points?

and if youre already above the 75th do you think would care if youre 1 pt above it or 5 pts above? does it matter to them?

thanks yall are awesome


Vuch,

If you are above the 75th I doubt it would matter at all.

If not, you can always express that with your new, mighty score you are thinking about sitting out a year and testing the waters next cycle.

Hope this helps!

Mike



thank you sir.

that helped without a doubt.

another questions, after receiving 2 solicited scholarship increases, is asking for another in bad taste?

would the members of the scholarship committee (i dont know who they are) think of me as a stingy douche?

i guess im asking because if another increase is possible i want to ask, but if 3 is unlikely then i dont want to risk rubbing some folks the wrong way

snappysalmons
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby snappysalmons » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:51 pm

Is it possible for schools to know that you've double deposited before May 15th, or are they in the dark until then?

Thanks!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu May 01, 2014 10:44 am

snappysalmons wrote:Is it possible for schools to know that you've double deposited before May 15th, or are they in the dark until then?

Thanks!


It is possible --they can run a report whenever they want. They tend to care more as time goes on and trust that the data is more complete/accurate as time goes on, as the impetus is on the individual schools themselves to upload the data.

theycallmefoes
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby theycallmefoes » Thu May 01, 2014 2:16 pm

Hi Mike,

When you get the chance, I'd really appreciate it if you could get back to me about this. I have a LOCI ready to go, but I wanted to get your thoughts before I submit it. Thanks!
theycallmefoes wrote:Hi Mike and Karen,

Any suggestions as to what to include in a LOCI to get off the wait list if you've already submitted a "Why X" with your application? Is it acceptable to reiterate some of the information? Also, should I address a below-median LSAT score if I did not previously do so? If so, should I include it in the LOCI, or should I submit a separate addendum?

Thanks!

VulturGryphus
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:07 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby VulturGryphus » Thu May 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Hi Mike,

I just read your post "The summer is long and full of melting."

What effect, if any, does the Dean of Admissions leaving their school have on wait-listed candidates? Particularly in the case where a wait-listed candidate had been keeping in touch with that Dean.

hopefulapplicant2
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:53 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby hopefulapplicant2 » Thu May 01, 2014 5:55 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
snappysalmons wrote:Is it possible for schools to know that you've double deposited before May 15th, or are they in the dark until then?

Thanks!


It is possible --they can run a report whenever they want. They tend to care more as time goes on and trust that the data is more complete/accurate as time goes on, as the impetus is on the individual schools themselves to upload the data.


I was accepted at a school that had an April 15 deposit deadline. I paid the deposit and then was accepted off the waitlist, last Friday, at a top 10 school. I withdrew Monday from the first school and paid the deposit on Tuesday to the school I was accepted at on Friday.. Does this show on a report?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu May 01, 2014 7:13 pm

theycallmefoes wrote:Hi Mike,

When you get the chance, I'd really appreciate it if you could get back to me about this. I have a LOCI ready to go, but I wanted to get your thoughts before I submit it. Thanks!
theycallmefoes wrote:Hi Mike and Karen,

Any suggestions as to what to include in a LOCI to get off the wait list if you've already submitted a "Why X" with your application? Is it acceptable to reiterate some of the information? Also, should I address a below-median LSAT score if I did not previously do so? If so, should I include it in the LOCI, or should I submit a separate addendum?

Thanks!


No to below median LSAT. Yes to reiteration of key points. GL!

theycallmefoes
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:13 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby theycallmefoes » Sat May 03, 2014 1:52 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
theycallmefoes wrote:Hi Mike,

When you get the chance, I'd really appreciate it if you could get back to me about this. I have a LOCI ready to go, but I wanted to get your thoughts before I submit it. Thanks!
theycallmefoes wrote:Hi Mike and Karen,

Any suggestions as to what to include in a LOCI to get off the wait list if you've already submitted a "Why X" with your application? Is it acceptable to reiterate some of the information? Also, should I address a below-median LSAT score if I did not previously do so? If so, should I include it in the LOCI, or should I submit a separate addendum?

Thanks!


No to below median LSAT. Yes to reiteration of key points. GL!
Thank you!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat May 03, 2014 5:16 pm

You all might like this...the most selective law school, by state.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-mo ... -by-state/

Check out FL. Surprising, no?

workaholic82
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby workaholic82 » Sat May 03, 2014 5:54 pm

I have a question that I'm sure has come up before. Most if not all schools say your deposits will go toward your first semester's tuition. What if someone has a full scholarship with stipend paying for fees. Are those deposits then non recoverable?

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Pneumonia
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Pneumonia » Sat May 03, 2014 6:17 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:You all might like this...the most selective law school, by state.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-mo ... -by-state/

Check out FL. Surprising, no?


great graphic, love it.

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Nonconsecutive » Sat May 03, 2014 6:55 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:You all might like this...the most selective law school, by state.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-mo ... -by-state/

Check out FL. Surprising, no?


great graphic, love it.


Same here, its funny how many school logos my brain knows but that I can't actively recall.

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thevuch
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby thevuch » Sun May 04, 2014 1:06 am

I saw somewhere on here I think that if you've taken the LSAT 3 times and your 2 yr deal ain't up yet that you can register for a fourth time if a school you applied to sends in a request for you to do so to the LSAC

This true?

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby haus » Sun May 04, 2014 1:23 am

thevuch wrote:I saw somewhere on here I think that if you've taken the LSAT 3 times and your 2 yr deal ain't up yet that you can register for a fourth time if a school you applied to sends in a request for you to do so to the LSAC

This true?

Although I would defer to others, I had thought that LSAC discontinued allowing a 4th exam at the request of schools.


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