Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

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gta
Posts: 254
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby gta » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:56 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
Nonconsecutive wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:Mike and I will be tweeting some really interesting data for y'all today!


We love data.


8)


Here is some more! I apologize that WordPress sucks so bad.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/applic ... by-region/


Any analysis/idea/speculation as to why the Midwest is the only region to see an increase in applications?

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:57 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
Nonconsecutive wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:Mike and I will be tweeting some really interesting data for y'all today!


We love data.


8)


Here is some more! I apologize that WordPress sucks so bad.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/applic ... by-region/

Are these regions based on the applicants' home town or the location of the schools being applied to?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:20 am

Hey all you Boppers out there,

I'm getting waves of PMs and emails about multiple deposit policies, so I figured I'd address that in a blog, which should be forthcoming today! -Mike

Update here it is: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-mu ... ot-happen/

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cron1834
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby cron1834 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:30 pm

Thanks for your thoughts, as always.

gta
Posts: 254
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby gta » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:32 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Hey all you Boppers out there,

I'm getting waves of PMs and emails about multiple deposit policies, so I figured I'd address that in a blog, which should be forthcoming today! -Mike

Update here it is: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-mu ... ot-happen/


Thanks for this, Mike!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:52 pm

gta wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Hey all you Boppers out there,

I'm getting waves of PMs and emails about multiple deposit policies, so I figured I'd address that in a blog, which should be forthcoming today! -Mike

Update here it is: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/the-mu ... ot-happen/


Thanks for this, Mike!


Thanks for the thanks, all. Hope it helps!

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twenty
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby twenty » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:52 am

Hey Mike and Karen,

There's a rumor floating around that law schools get a copy of the passport picture you need to take the LSAT in their score report. Is this a true thing?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:12 pm

twenty wrote:Hey Mike and Karen,

There's a rumor floating around that law schools get a copy of the passport picture you need to take the LSAT in their score report. Is this a true thing?


I've never heard of that, it wasn't the case as recently as last year, and LSAC never test ran it or mentioned it last year so I believe you can chalk this up to one of the thousands of rumors out there that someone just decided to make up.

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schnaupal
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby schnaupal » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:10 pm

Hello Spivey!

I know that LSAC has a rule against law schools forcing you to withdraw your applications from schools you haven't heard from or schools you've been waitlisted at when you accept an offer of admission. Does the same hold true for accepting scholarships? Is it allowed for schools to add terms to a scholarship that require you to withdraw from any schools you've been waitlisted at?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:49 am

schnaupal wrote:Hello Spivey!

I know that LSAC has a rule against law schools forcing you to withdraw your applications from schools you haven't heard from or schools you've been waitlisted at when you accept an offer of admission. Does the same hold true for accepting scholarships? Is it allowed for schools to add terms to a scholarship that require you to withdraw from any schools you've been waitlisted at?


Hey Schnaupal, did a school ask you to do this? Perhaps using terminology like "all schools"...? Karen and I are trying to see what the standards for this are this current cycle before we give an answer.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby nothingtosee » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:50 pm

Anal retentive question:

How bad is it for a LOCI to go on to a third page?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:54 pm

nothingtosee wrote:Anal retentive question:

How bad is it for a LOCI to go on to a third page?


Eeeek! I wouldn't. Even two full pages is a bit much.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:57 pm

Does anyone want to do us a huge favor and check out our twitter account as the day goes on and let us know via PM which version you like? We are playing around with the new formatting.

Also, I am working on a blog on a case study of someone who was admitted off of the WL at one of my law schools with an LSAT in the lower 150's who did everything for WL activity perfectly. I think a lot of people this time of year start throwing in the towel re: WL and that couldn't be further from reality -- for the summer is long and full of terrors. (okay, I was quoting GoT, the summer is just long. I guess it is full of terrors if you are a law school though).

Mike

gta
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby gta » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:34 pm

I like the new Twitter profile picture! It's simple and a good brand.

I also saw your tweet breaking down applicants by gender from a couple of days ago. Is this the first time that there will be more female law school applicants than male?

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby haus » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:27 pm

Just checked your twitter profile.

The new avatar, and images look nice.

QuantTrader77
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby QuantTrader77 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:37 am

Hey there Mike Spivey. I was advised to post on your thread in hopes that you would be able to give me some valuable feedback. Here is what I posted in the URM forum:

I posted this in a different forum, and I did not quite get the feedback I was hoping for.

I am hoping to go to a top 6 law school because I want to become a Patent Lawyer and eventually own a Patent Law firm. Here are my stats, and by the way, I am a black male:

B.Sc. Mechanical Engineering, University of Maryland, GPA:3.09/4.00, LSAC GPA: 2.78/4.00 (B.Sc. acquired in 2003)
M.Sc. Aerospace Engineering, University of Maryland, GPA:3.50/4.00
Ph.D. Aerospace Engineering, University of Maryland, cumm. GPA: 3.65/4.00, Ph.D. GPA: 3.79/4.00
M.Sc. Electrical & Computer Engineering, The Johns Hopkins University, GPA: 4.00/4.00

I chose to acquire my M.Sc. and Ph.D. in Aerospace Engineering from UMD because it is highly ranked in the USNWR (12th in the nation).

LSAT: 171

I do have a fairly interesting story and here it is. I was working in high school to help my mother with the household bills, and my mother went back to Africa after I completed high school. To be frank, I grew up in a fairly impoverished household. Consequently, I had to work all throughout undergrad in order to support myself, and I often had to send money back to Africa to my mother and siblings. I would attribute my low undergraduate GPA to the stress of having to work so much. This is just an abbreviated version of the story and hardships I encountered while in high school and undergrad.
Nonetheless, with sheer determination and zeal, I found a way to make it to graduate school, and I became a U.S. citizen. Subsequently, I acquired a position as an Aerospace Engineer with the Department of Defense, and I should state that I worked full-time with the Department of Defense throughout the duration of completing my Aerospace Engineering Ph.D.
After completing the Ph.D., I started my own non-profit hoping to increase the exposure of the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) field to inner-city and underprivileged minority youth. Shortly thereafter, I gained entrance into JHU in order to complete an M.Sc. in Electrical & Computer Engineering. As of now, I am planning to acquire a position at the USPTO to build 1-2 years of patent experience that Big law firms appreciate when hiring patent lawyers.

I plan to blanket all the top 14 law schools, and hopefully I can get into a top 6 law school. I would certainly love to go to Harvard. What do you guys think? Harvard? Yale? I am a tad worried about my UGPA since the schools I am fairly interested in often have harsh UGPA floors.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:11 am

QuantTrader77 wrote:Hey there Mike Spivey. I was advised to post on your thread in hopes that you would be able to give me some valuable feedback. Here is what I posted in the URM forum:

I posted this in a different forum, and I did not quite get the feedback I was hoping for.

I am hoping to go to a top 6 law school because I want to become a Patent Lawyer and eventually own a Patent Law firm. Here are my stats, and by the way, I am a black male:

B.Sc. Mechanical Engineering, University of Maryland, GPA:3.09/4.00, LSAC GPA: 2.78/4.00 (B.Sc. acquired in 2003)
M.Sc. Aerospace Engineering, University of Maryland, GPA:3.50/4.00
Ph.D. Aerospace Engineering, University of Maryland, cumm. GPA: 3.65/4.00, Ph.D. GPA: 3.79/4.00
M.Sc. Electrical & Computer Engineering, The Johns Hopkins University, GPA: 4.00/4.00

I chose to acquire my M.Sc. and Ph.D. in Aerospace Engineering from UMD because it is highly ranked in the USNWR (12th in the nation).

LSAT: 171

I do have a fairly interesting story and here it is. I was working in high school to help my mother with the household bills, and my mother went back to Africa after I completed high school. To be frank, I grew up in a fairly impoverished household. Consequently, I had to work all throughout undergrad in order to support myself, and I often had to send money back to Africa to my mother and siblings. I would attribute my low undergraduate GPA to the stress of having to work so much. This is just an abbreviated version of the story and hardships I encountered while in high school and undergrad.
Nonetheless, with sheer determination and zeal, I found a way to make it to graduate school, and I became a U.S. citizen. Subsequently, I acquired a position as an Aerospace Engineer with the Department of Defense, and I should state that I worked full-time with the Department of Defense throughout the duration of completing my Aerospace Engineering Ph.D.
After completing the Ph.D., I started my own non-profit hoping to increase the exposure of the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) field to inner-city and underprivileged minority youth. Shortly thereafter, I gained entrance into JHU in order to complete an M.Sc. in Electrical & Computer Engineering. As of now, I am planning to acquire a position at the USPTO to build 1-2 years of patent experience that Big law firms appreciate when hiring patent lawyers.

I plan to blanket all the top 14 law schools, and hopefully I can get into a top 6 law school. I would certainly love to go to Harvard. What do you guys think? Harvard? Yale? I am a tad worried about my UGPA since the schools I am fairly interested in often have harsh UGPA floors.


Quant, I'll spare you much of the holistic talk part but there is a lot that goes into admissions that makes prediction with precision difficult. But that said, you have a great deal going for you and if I were you I would blanket the top 10-14 as well, and I would expect great results. You should compete very well next cycle. You also are going into one of the best legal careers as far as insulation from swings in legal employment --so i expect great things.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:13 am

Thanks people for the Pms and thoughts here on the new twitter. This is our final product from late last night.

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult

If anyone has thoughts/suggestions or likes what we did yesterday during the day better bring it on. As always, much much appreciated!

QuantTrader77
Posts: 18
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby QuantTrader77 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:35 am

Quant, I'll spare you much of the holistic talk part but there is a lot that goes into admissions that makes prediction with precision difficult. But that said, you have a great deal going for you and if I were you I would blanket the top 10-14 as well, and I would expect great results. You should compete very well next cycle. You also are going into one of the best legal careers as far as insulation from swings in legal employment --so i expect great things.




Thanks much for the feedback sir. I should say though, my primary concern is if schools like HLS or YLS would even consider admitting me? I say this because of the low UGPA that I acquired approximately 10 years ago. Are there situations where the medicore undergrad GPA is overcome by a combination of compelling life circumstances and later stellar academic work at schools such as HLS and YLS? I inquire such a question because I get the impression that I am a highly unusual law school applicant. Thanks.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby nothingtosee » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:37 pm

Mike and Karen,

the blogpost where you explained "we don't rank the waitlist" was very informative. With regards to the waitlist, do "extras" like a quality LOCI add to an applicant's chances, or is it more that a poor LOCI (or none) disqualifies one? It seems as though the most important factors (LSAT, GPA, female/mile, racial diversity) are out of the the applicant's hands.

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Nonconsecutive » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:41 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Thanks people for the Pms and thoughts here on the new twitter. This is our final product from late last night.

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult

If anyone has thoughts/suggestions or likes what we did yesterday during the day better bring it on. As always, much much appreciated!


Mike,

Did you ever decide if you liked the Fox logo or not? I figured you ended up being ok with it, since you've kept it all this time.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:29 pm

nothingtosee wrote:Mike and Karen,

the blogpost where you explained "we don't rank the waitlist" was very informative. With regards to the waitlist, do "extras" like a quality LOCI add to an applicant's chances, or is it more that a poor LOCI (or none) disqualifies one? It seems as though the most important factors (LSAT, GPA, female/mile, racial diversity) are out of the the applicant's hands.


One way to look at it is that more and more if you do not write a LOCI, or if you write a sloppy one or one that just totally misses, you aren't going to even make it to the group that are considered to be admitted off of the WL.

Almost all schools admit a decent number from the WL, but they also almost all WL a ton of people.

riku33090
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby riku33090 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:00 pm

Hi,

This might be a dumb question but

What is the proper way to stay on the wait-list of your preferred school while not withdrawing from schools that already offered you admission.

I am wait-listed at 3 schools so far and accepted at one of my back up school with scholarships. I have until early May to deposit and I already asked for an extension. If I still don't hear back from my wait-listed schools by then should I just deposit first and keep riding on the wait-list?

Thanks

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DetroitRed
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby DetroitRed » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:27 pm

Hi,

I have a question about personal statements. In everything I've read about personal statements, which at this point amounts to two books and several articles, I've learnt a lot. What I haven't come across, however, is advice concerning whether it is generally better to write a "why law school" PS as opposed to a "here's an interesting facet of my personality absent from my résumé" PS. I'm more inclined to write the latter, but I'm afraid I'll be at a disadvantage relative to those who write strong "why law school" PS. Is my fear well founded? As a former admissions officer, which would you have preferred to see?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:23 pm

Nonconsecutive wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Thanks people for the Pms and thoughts here on the new twitter. This is our final product from late last night.

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult

If anyone has thoughts/suggestions or likes what we did yesterday during the day better bring it on. As always, much much appreciated!


Mike,

Did you ever decide if you liked the Fox logo or not? I figured you ended up being ok with it, since you've kept it all this time.


I'm content with it. I'll never entirely like anything we do design-wise for our business but that's just because I want to see 6 million different permutations of everything we can possibly come up with. I suspect when some of you folks start your own mega firms you'll feel this way too.

I'm off on back to back work trips. Karen should be around for some questions and I'll jump in when I get back Monday!

Mike


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