Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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Winston1984
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Winston1984 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:49 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
manillabay wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
Are you implying that I'm a jackass?


Of course she isn't, quit being insufferable.


It would be awesome if she was though.

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redsox
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby redsox » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:18 pm

Winston1984 wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
manillabay wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
Are you implying that I'm a jackass?


Of course she isn't, quit being insufferable.


It would be awesome if she was though.

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KarenButtenbaum
Posts: 591
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:50 pm

hk227 wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
hk227 wrote:I wish I'd have joined TLS way earlier (like before I applied...).

Anyway, I've been getting a lot of advice on whether or not to Good luck! Follow your dreams! the LSAT a second time. I read your post on it as well Mike. Basically, I didn't get into some of my top choices this cycle but I applied pretty late (read: February). I'm wondering if in a situation like this, a Good luck! Follow your dreams! would be advised to raise my score or I should just reapply earlier next cycle. I guess my question is how does the timing of applications affect admission especially in cases with >75 GPA and median or just below median LSAT?


If you are unhappy with your results, I would Good luck! Follow your dreams! and reapply earlier in the cycle!


Thanks! How much does applying early affect my outcomes? If I was to reapply early with the same stats, would I have improved chances of admission?


You'd probably do better with a higher score than to reapply early with a below median LSAT. If you say you are just below median, you have nothing to lose by taking it again -- in this case a point or two can make a huge difference.

ulupulu
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby ulupulu » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:07 pm

Hi Mike/Karen,

Thank you for all that you do! Asked in another thread but wanted your opinions if possible.

I'm on track on getting a 4.0 this year for the first time in my undergraduate years and finished last semester really well. However, I am concerned about one course (the best I could get would be an A- and the worst would be low B) as I am awaiting more marks to make the decision. I also have a tight deadline to drop the course with a non-punitive W or have a lower GPA with the course. Marks won't be returned before the deadline so I feel like I am making a blind choice either way. Also I already have another non-punitive W from some years back.

Would adcoms see the 4.0 with W better than a 3.7-3.8 with a lower grade? This is also my second to last semester, btw.
Thank you!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:59 pm

ulupulu wrote:Hi Mike/Karen,

Thank you for all that you do! Asked in another thread but wanted your opinions if possible.

I'm on track on getting a 4.0 this year for the first time in my undergraduate years and finished last semester really well. However, I am concerned about one course (the best I could get would be an A- and the worst would be low B) as I am awaiting more marks to make the decision. I also have a tight deadline to drop the course with a non-punitive W or have a lower GPA with the course. Marks won't be returned before the deadline so I feel like I am making a blind choice either way. Also I already have another non-punitive W from some years back.

Would adcoms see the 4.0 with W better than a 3.7-3.8 with a lower grade? This is also my second to last semester, btw.
Thank you!


4.0 is better with a W or two. Definitely. Hopefully they said this in the other thread.

Also, you outed what country you are from :)

ulupulu
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby ulupulu » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:12 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
ulupulu wrote:Hi Mike/Karen,

Thank you for all that you do! Asked in another thread but wanted your opinions if possible.

I'm on track on getting a 4.0 this year for the first time in my undergraduate years and finished last semester really well. However, I am concerned about one course (the best I could get would be an A- and the worst would be low B) as I am awaiting more marks to make the decision. I also have a tight deadline to drop the course with a non-punitive W or have a lower GPA with the course. Marks won't be returned before the deadline so I feel like I am making a blind choice either way. Also I already have another non-punitive W from some years back.

Would adcoms see the 4.0 with W better than a 3.7-3.8 with a lower grade? This is also my second to last semester, btw.
Thank you!


4.0 is better with a W or two. Definitely. Hopefully they said this in the other thread.

Also, you outed what country you are from :)


Thank you Mike!
Just curious, how did you know? It was unintentional, but really cool if it is obvious in a short blurb, haha.

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drawstring
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drawstring » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:32 am

If an applicant comes from an undergrad where A+s are given, is their GPA taken for what it is or will adcoms tend to account for the A+s, such that someone with a 4.0 but some grades lower than A is treated as if their GPA is under 4.0?

Thank you!

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amw5471
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby amw5471 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:47 am

ulupulu wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
ulupulu wrote:Hi Mike/Karen,

Thank you for all that you do! Asked in another thread but wanted your opinions if possible.

I'm on track on getting a 4.0 this year for the first time in my undergraduate years and finished last semester really well. However, I am concerned about one course (the best I could get would be an A- and the worst would be low B) as I am awaiting more marks to make the decision. I also have a tight deadline to drop the course with a non-punitive W or have a lower GPA with the course. Marks won't be returned before the deadline so I feel like I am making a blind choice either way. Also I already have another non-punitive W from some years back.

Would adcoms see the 4.0 with W better than a 3.7-3.8 with a lower grade? This is also my second to last semester, btw.
Thank you!


4.0 is better with a W or two. Definitely. Hopefully they said this in the other thread.

Also, you outed what country you are from :)


Thank you Mike!
Just curious, how did you know? It was unintentional, but really cool if it is obvious in a short blurb, haha.


I'm pretty obviously not Mike but you said "marks" instead of "grades" which outed you for me.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:33 am

amw5471 wrote:
I'm pretty obviously not Mike


How can you be so sure?

Also, there should be 2 new blogs up today.

Hahalollawl
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Hahalollawl » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:41 am

I have a question. If you made a deposit at a law school because it was due but are still hoping to hear back from a few schools, will the schools that you haven't heard back from yet be able to see that you made a deposit and at what school you made it at? Would this influence their decision? Thanks for any information!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:44 am

Hahalollawl wrote:I have a question. If you made a deposit at a law school because it was due but are still hoping to hear back from a few schools, will the schools that you haven't heard back from yet be able to see that you made a deposit and at what school you made it at? Would this influence their decision? Thanks for any information!



Nope.

Hahalollawl
Posts: 128
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Hahalollawl » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:46 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
Hahalollawl wrote:I have a question. If you made a deposit at a law school because it was due but are still hoping to hear back from a few schools, will the schools that you haven't heard back from yet be able to see that you made a deposit and at what school you made it at? Would this influence their decision? Thanks for any information!



Nope.


So they can only see if someone tries to make 2 deposits right?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:55 am

drawstring wrote:If an applicant comes from an undergrad where A+s are given, is their GPA taken for what it is or will adcoms tend to account for the A+s, such that someone with a 4.0 but some grades lower than A is treated as if their GPA is under 4.0?

Thank you!

I think I understand your question.. The schools wil look at the LSAC CUM GPA for the gpa that will be used and reported. But they wil alo look at the transcript and see the actual grades. Some A+ and some A- will still be a 4.0 on the lsac computation. Does that answer your question?

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drawstring
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drawstring » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:03 am

What I mean to ask is if adcoms typically look at a 4.0 that includes grades such as A- or B+ (which is possible due to A+s balancing them out) as just another 4.0, or would they devalue it due to the lack of straight As?

Thanks again!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:31 am

Blog # 1 on raw scores since 2011:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/usnwr- ... fographic/

Blog # 2 on what Game of Thrones characters would score on the LSAT:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/what-w ... -the-lsat/

Enjoy!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:45 am

drawstring wrote:What I mean to ask is if adcoms typically look at a 4.0 that includes grades such as A- or B+ (which is possible due to A+s balancing them out) as just another 4.0, or would they devalue it due to the lack of straight As?

Thanks again!

Of course every evaluator is different, but I wouldn't say that they "devalue" a 4.0 because of lack of straight A's but rather it's just more information that goes into the evaluation. Just like your major, where you went to school, etc.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:44 pm

Hahalollawl wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
Hahalollawl wrote:I have a question. If you made a deposit at a law school because it was due but are still hoping to hear back from a few schools, will the schools that you haven't heard back from yet be able to see that you made a deposit and at what school you made it at? Would this influence their decision? Thanks for any information!



Nope.


So they can only see if someone tries to make 2 deposits right?


Correct. They can only see if you've made a deposit at their school plus another school.

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:45 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
Hahalollawl wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
Hahalollawl wrote:I have a question. If you made a deposit at a law school because it was due but are still hoping to hear back from a few schools, will the schools that you haven't heard back from yet be able to see that you made a deposit and at what school you made it at? Would this influence their decision? Thanks for any information!



Nope.


So they can only see if someone tries to make 2 deposits right?


Correct. They can only see if you've made a deposit at their school plus another school.


What would typically happen if you have made multiple deposits and they see that? Can they rescind your offer?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:35 pm

lawschool22 wrote:What would typically happen if you have made multiple deposits and they see that? Can they rescind your offer?


Schools use this information differently, but they will likely contact you to see what your plan is and may give you another deadline to withdraw from the other school before they rescind the offer. Sometimes, as in the original situation when you are admitted somewhere after you have already deposited elsewhere, it takes a little while for that double deposit to clear up in the system, so it's usually not an automatic rescission.
Read the deposit language - many will require you to withdraw from other schools to which you have been admitted(not WL) which gives then the right to rescind.

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:02 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:What would typically happen if you have made multiple deposits and they see that? Can they rescind your offer?


Schools use this information differently, but they will likely contact you to see what your plan is and may give you another deadline to withdraw from the other school before they rescind the offer. Sometimes, as in the original situation when you are admitted somewhere after you have already deposited elsewhere, it takes a little while for that double deposit to clear up in the system, so it's usually not an automatic rescission.
Read the deposit language - many will require you to withdraw from other schools to which you have been admitted(not WL) which gives then the right to rescind.


Thank you! That is unfortunate, because they have different deposit deadlines. You could be waiting to hear from one school on a scholarship, re-negotiation, etc., and have to deposit at another school before you have heard back.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:08 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:What would typically happen if you have made multiple deposits and they see that? Can they rescind your offer?


Schools use this information differently, but they will likely contact you to see what your plan is and may give you another deadline to withdraw from the other school before they rescind the offer. Sometimes, as in the original situation when you are admitted somewhere after you have already deposited elsewhere, it takes a little while for that double deposit to clear up in the system, so it's usually not an automatic rescission.
Read the deposit language - many will require you to withdraw from other schools to which you have been admitted(not WL) which gives then the right to rescind.


Thank you! That is unfortunate, because they have different deposit deadlines. You could be waiting to hear from one school on a scholarship, re-negotiation, etc., and have to deposit at another school before you have heard back.


Well, it gets more serious in May when the schools really need to know who is coming and how many spaces are left, so there is a little wiggle room until then, I think.

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:12 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:What would typically happen if you have made multiple deposits and they see that? Can they rescind your offer?


Schools use this information differently, but they will likely contact you to see what your plan is and may give you another deadline to withdraw from the other school before they rescind the offer. Sometimes, as in the original situation when you are admitted somewhere after you have already deposited elsewhere, it takes a little while for that double deposit to clear up in the system, so it's usually not an automatic rescission.
Read the deposit language - many will require you to withdraw from other schools to which you have been admitted(not WL) which gives then the right to rescind.


Thank you! That is unfortunate, because they have different deposit deadlines. You could be waiting to hear from one school on a scholarship, re-negotiation, etc., and have to deposit at another school before you have heard back.


Well, it gets more serious in May when the schools really need to know who is coming and how many spaces are left, so there is a little wiggle room until then, I think.


Thanks that makes sense, and I can understand their needing to know. It's just a little funny since they take months and months to make a decision about us, and expect us to take days and days to make a decision about them :)

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:14 pm

Here's some data I found interesting. Any surprises?

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/google ... w-schools/

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Pneumonia
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Pneumonia » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:17 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Here's some data I found interesting. Any surprises?

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/google ... w-schools/


I mean Harvard's is probably disproportionately represented because of those "just kidding" shirts, but other than that the only surprising thing to me is that Vanderbilt is that under-searched : )

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:20 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Here's some data I found interesting. Any surprises?

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/google ... w-schools/


I mean Harvard's is probably disproportionately represented because of those "just kidding" shirts, but other than that the only surprising thing to me is that Vanderbilt is that under-searched : )


I was pretty surprised by that too, so much so I sent to Vandy's Dean. Trying to put my finger on it.


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