Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officer

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:28 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:My understanding of rolling admissions is that files get read as submitted, but that decisions are only quickly made on the strongest & weakest applications while the middle gets saved for a later day/cycle decision.


That is not correct for most schools. The ones with strong/a strong metric (lsat/gpa) get read first at the majority of schools, the less competitive ones sit around and wait.

This is one of the most common misconceptions in law admissions, btw.

-Mike

theycallmefoes
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby theycallmefoes » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:35 pm

Hi Mike,

Do you know if it's possible to negotiate up from full tuition to tuition + stipend? I already have significant debt from undergraduate, and while I would really prefer to live on-campus, I do not wish to pull additional loans to pay for housing. Is there a tactful way to successfully ask for such an increase?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:24 pm

If the school offers tuition + stipend packages already (ie have to other admits) I think it is indeed possible.

If they do not, it's still worth the ask, but probably less likely.

Either way, go for it!

Mike

theycallmefoes
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby theycallmefoes » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:18 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:If the school offers tuition + stipend packages already (ie have to other admits) I think it is indeed possible.

If they do not, it's still worth the ask, but probably less likely.

Either way, go for it!

Mike
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly, Mike! Your answer was reassuring. The thing is, I'm still not sure what the best way to approach the topic is.
Last edited by theycallmefoes on Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:33 pm

foes, we can't really get into anything that specific on here for you, it's not fair to a bunch of people + might hurt you if we edited it publically. Sorry and GL!

Mike

theycallmefoes
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby theycallmefoes » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:17 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:foes, we can't really get into anything that specific on here for you, it's not fair to a bunch of people + might hurt you if we edited it publically. Sorry and GL!

Mike
I understand. Do you think I was at least on the right track?

The Dark Shepard
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby The Dark Shepard » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:39 pm

If a school told me they don't negotiate, is it worth trying again later, maybe upping the ante with "I can guarantee my enrollment with even $5k more a year"? Or would that come off poorly?

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Trig
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Trig » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:04 pm

I posted this in financial aid but really interested in what both of you have to say.

(This is purely hypothetical; I am not a candidate for admission at either of these schools. Insert whatever schools, amounts, etc. you would like.)

Say I received $25,000 a year at Berkeley and used this offer to negotiate with Cornell to go from $20,000 a year to $35,000 a year. Then I go back to Berkeley and say I now have $35,000 a year at Cornell can that offer be matched or exceeded.

At what point do schools get sick of this cycle of negotiation? Or is it just a part of the process? Thanks!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:21 pm

You people are ruthless gangsters, which makes me think you will be good at the negotiation thing.

On scholarships I would never be afraid to ask, and ask again later. And ask before you go to law school one more time. Schools get money at different times in the cycle, and get money back. e are already seeing that play out yet again. They have their tricks, and you have yours (I think that's an X-Men last Stand quote) in other words they have experience and you likely have leverage. Use your leverage, but also always be considerate and respectful.

On Monday, April 14th I am attending a seminar on negotiation just for you all. I'll try to take broad level notes for this board.

MegamanX2
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MegamanX2 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:33 pm

Any advice for negotiating an 80% scholarship up to a full ride? I feel greedy even asking, but it would make a huge difference. I have a comparable offer at a higher-ranked school, so I'm thinking there has to be a way to use that to get that last 20%?

Thanks!

MegamanX2
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MegamanX2 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:26 pm

Any advice for negotiating an 80% scholarship up to a full ride? I feel greedy even asking, but it would make a huge difference. I have a comparable offer at a higher-ranked school, so I'm thinking there has to be a way to use that to get that last 20%?

Thanks!


I also have a full ride offer from a lower ranked school, and an acceptance from a much higher ranked school (waiting on an award), in case that factors into how I should write the email.

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Nonconsecutive » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:30 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:You people are ruthless gangsters


We didn't choose the thug life, the thug life chose us. 8)

goCats3
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby goCats3 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:48 pm

Mike, Karen,
I'm visiting a school at which I'm waitlisted in several weeks and meeting with an admissions member. What's the appropriate attire? Suit? Lose the jacket? Lose the tie?

It's UVa if that makes a difference.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:21 pm

Business casual works best in these situations, I think. The person you meet with likely wont be suited up and certainly don't expect you to be.

GL!

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Winston1984
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Winston1984 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:34 pm

Mike, I spent the day looking through the Q&A you took from TLS on your website, and I had a question for you. So I see that you think (know is probably a better word) that many law schools say one thing and do another in regards to admissions (averaging LSAT scores being the big one). So how do we know when the school is being truthful? Not really about the LSAT scores, but about optional essays or what to include in a PS for example. Thank you for everything that you do!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Mike, I spent the day looking through the Q&A you took from TLS on your website, and I had a question for you. So I see that you think (know is probably a better word) that many law schools say one thing and do another in regards to admissions (averaging LSAT scores being the big one). So how do we know when the school is being truthful? Not really about the LSAT scores, but about optional essays or what to include in a PS for example. Thank you for everything that you do!


This is going to require a lengthy answer so keep at me, but keep on mind I doubt many or any law schools today say "we average your LSAT scores " (some brand new imprecise admissions officers might unknowingly) they say "we look at all scores" which is technically correct -- they see them all. They only care about your high score.

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Winston1984
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:57 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Mike, I spent the day looking through the Q&A you took from TLS on your website, and I had a question for you. So I see that you think (know is probably a better word) that many law schools say one thing and do another in regards to admissions (averaging LSAT scores being the big one). So how do we know when the school is being truthful? Not really about the LSAT scores, but about optional essays or what to include in a PS for example. Thank you for everything that you do!


This is going to require a lengthy answer so keep at me, but keep on mind I doubt many or any law schools today say "we average your LSAT scores " (some brand new imprecise admissions officers might unknowingly) they say "we look at all scores" which is technically correct -- they see them all. They only care about your high score.


Thanks for the reply, and I look forward to your answer!

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Trig
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Trig » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:27 pm

Hey Mike,

Quick question about seat deposits (I already checked the 103 page link in the OP to no avail). Some threads on here say that multiple seat deposits are fine for the first deadline but not for the second. Other threads say that schools can rescind an offer of admission if an applicant places multiple deposits at other schools. What is the truth about multiple seat deposits and how does it help or hurt the applicant?

Thanks!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:12 pm

Trig wrote:Hey Mike,

Quick question about seat deposits (I already checked the 103 page link in the OP to no avail). Some threads on here say that multiple seat deposits are fine for the first deadline but not for the second. Other threads say that schools can rescind an offer of admission if an applicant places multiple deposits at other schools. What is the truth about multiple seat deposits and how does it help or hurt the applicant?

Thanks!


It depends on the wording of the individual school, but some schools do say that they reserve the right to rescind an offer of admissions after a certain date. I have yet to see a school actually do that, btw.

fransan42
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby fransan42 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:34 pm

I have a question :)

How does Harvard look upon an applicant that takes an extra year of undergrad to take easy classes (to raise GPA), such as 100 level courses? "
Specifically, an AA urm applicant.

If one gets a gpa close to the median and a good lsat score, would they still look upon it negatively?

Thank you! :D

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drawstring
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drawstring » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:50 pm

Hi Karen and Mike,

Any ideas as to why extremely high number applicants (e.g. 3.9/177) would be rejected by schools where the very large majority of people with those numbers get in? Let's assume they have no CF issues, they didn't apply late or botch any interviews, and their softs aren't terrible. Each cycle there are a few candidates who seem to have this experience, and I've always wonder what leads to it.

Thank you!

Kuledj
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Kuledj » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:35 am

Hi Karen/Mike

I've been accepted to one of the higher ranked PT programs and received 15K. I also got into some lower ranked PT programs and received full scholarships. I petitioned to the higher ranked program for more money and was graciously denied. Do you think there's any point in trying to go back one more time to them before paying first deposit (I'm going there regardless) or maybe wait until after first deposit to show that I am coming regardless

Thanks

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:12 am

drawstring wrote:Hi Karen and Mike,

Any ideas as to why extremely high number applicants (e.g. 3.9/177) would be rejected by schools where the very large majority of people with those numbers get in? Let's assume they have no CF issues, they didn't apply late or botch any interviews, and their softs aren't terrible. Each cycle there are a few candidates who seem to have this experience, and I've always wonder what leads to it.

Thank you!


Very sloppy application/Very young age/ some horrible anti-YP data point(s)/entitled interview (this one kills people...also in OCI) there are actually a good deal of reasons.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:14 am

Kuledj wrote:Hi Karen/Mike

I've been accepted to one of the higher ranked PT programs and received 15K. I also got into some lower ranked PT programs and received full scholarships. I petitioned to the higher ranked program for more money and was graciously denied. Do you think there's any point in trying to go back one more time to them before paying first deposit (I'm going there regardless) or maybe wait until after first deposit to show that I am coming regardless

Thanks


I do, yes. What is the downside?

Kuledj
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Kuledj » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:59 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
Kuledj wrote:Hi Karen/Mike

I've been accepted to one of the higher ranked PT programs and received 15K. I also got into some lower ranked PT programs and received full scholarships. I petitioned to the higher ranked program for more money and was graciously denied. Do you think there's any point in trying to go back one more time to them before paying first deposit (I'm going there regardless) or maybe wait until after first deposit to show that I am coming regardless

Thanks


I do, yes. What is the downside?


Do you think I should pay the deposit first to show my devotion?


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