Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:53 pm

Mrs. O'Hara wrote:Cheers to my first TLS post :!: :!: :!:

As an ED applicant to a T14 (not Michigan), I was not expecting any money. Just imagine the happy dance my neighbors witnessed on my living room after I got a 69k scholarship. I have mediocre numbers and did not cure cancer otherwise I obviously wouldn’t have applied ED. The situation is so ridiculous that if I had posted this on the school thread, people would probably have called me a fake as my scholarship is not so different from the offers RD applicants with better numbers are getting.

I’m just curious as why would a school give money to someone who applied ED? Not that I’m complaining but it just goes against everything I’ve read here on TLS. :roll:



it is really hard to say without more data (you) and data-points (other people). Some school, e.g. NU, offer scholarships as part of the ED program to incentivize people to apply ED. Having greater amounts of data and commitments early is really a boon in admissions (AND, in respect to some of the other posts, until a school has a good deal of data they often go very slowly with bubble candidates, hence the long waits).

In your case, maybe you are just that awesome?

gottago
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby gottago » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:52 pm

deleted
Last edited by gottago on Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

lwschool2014
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lwschool2014 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:06 pm

...any advice on the seat deposit deadline extensions? When should I ask for them? Also I've been thinking more about it. Won't schools just reject the request because it's so obviously clear that I don't know if I'll attend if not?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:21 pm

gottago wrote:after committing to a school, how long to withdraw from other schools before it becomes too long?

I'm 99% sure I'm going somewhere but I still want to stay on to see what merit aid I'd get and to go to nearby ASWs and receptions to meet future classmates.


I'm not sure there really is a "too long"...quite frankly the onus is on them to withdraw you. When you become 100% sure I'd just let them know.

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neprep
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby neprep » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:27 pm

Mike are you going to post pictures from your trip with the Rankings contest winner?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:31 pm

lwschool2014 wrote:...any advice on the seat deposit deadline extensions? When should I ask for them? Also I've been thinking more about it. Won't schools just reject the request because it's so obviously clear that I don't know if I'll attend if not?


You'll never know unless you ask! Schools aren't always keen on extending deadlines because they really want to know who is planning to enroll in the fall - can't really blame them for wanting to know that. But it is reasonable to request an extension in many cases: you haven't had a chance to visit, you haven't received financial aid information, etc. They want you to make a decision and choose them, but they should be fair about it too. Be reasonable with your request keeping their interests in mind as you explain your reasons.

As for timing, if your deadline is May 1 it is too early to ask for an extension; if it is next week, you should probably ask now.

Cheers,
KB

johnnyt
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby johnnyt » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:38 pm

Thank you for taking your time to answer so many questions! I have a questions about being a Canadian URM. It seems that the boost for international URMs is a very grey area, and being Canadian makes it even greyer. Could you please comment on International/Canadian URM boosts? I am black btw.

Thank a ton!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:42 pm

neprep wrote:Mike are you going to post pictures from your trip with the Rankings contest winner?


Probably not because I am 6/6 in the NCAA tournament thus far. So I am pretty sure I will win Buffet's billion and call everything I have ever done or planned to do moot and start over at $1,000,000,000.

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby haus » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:02 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
neprep wrote:Mike are you going to post pictures from your trip with the Rankings contest winner?


Probably not because I am 6/6 in the NCAA tournament thus far. So I am pretty sure I will win Buffet's billion and call everything I have ever done or planned to do moot and start over at $1,000,000,000.

You called Harvard, eh?

Enjoy your new tropical island.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:44 pm

haus wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
neprep wrote:Mike are you going to post pictures from your trip with the Rankings contest winner?


Probably not because I am 6/6 in the NCAA tournament thus far. So I am pretty sure I will win Buffet's billion and call everything I have ever done or planned to do moot and start over at $1,000,000,000.

You called Harvard, eh?

Enjoy your new tropical island.


I wouldn't exactly say "called it" more like "mashed the right buttons" but looks like about to go 8/8. Much better than i would have done in the law rankings contest.

EDIT. NC STATE flopped and screwed me. Back to my day job. New blog is already up will link below.
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby iamgeorgebush » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:35 pm

drawstring wrote:Ya, that 180 is a bit low.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:04 pm

Here is a look at this cycle to date and a quick stab at things to come.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/a-look ... ons-cycle/

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:38 am

MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a look at this cycle to date and a quick stab at things to come.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/a-look ... ons-cycle/


Interesting read as always!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:40 pm

johnnyt wrote:Thank you for taking your time to answer so many questions! I have a questions about being a Canadian URM. It seems that the boost for international URMs is a very grey area, and being Canadian makes it even greyer. Could you please comment on International/Canadian URM boosts? I am black btw.

Thank a ton!


I won't comment specifically on the URM boost, so I am afraid that it will remain a grey area.

But I will give you some info about ABA reporting that you may not be aware of: When schools report ethnicity to the ABA, they only count US citizens and Permanent Residents in the ethnicity data, so if you are a citizen of another country -regardless of ethnicity - you are counted as a non-resident alien.
Let me stress that this is only for ABA reporting purposes -- I am not implying that this effects any decisions on applications, I just wanted to bring it us because most people are unaware of this reporting structure. And I'd imagine that schools can use whatever methods they want to report ethnicity on promotional or internal material.

Admissions officers are not blind to the benefits of having international students in their classes, so it will certainly not be a detriment to your application. And your ethnicity is still a part of your identity, regardless of citizenship, and admissions officers aren't blind to that either.

Hope this is helpful!

Cheers,
KB

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whippersnappery
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby whippersnappery » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:45 pm

Thank you both so much for doing this. Karen, a questions specifically about HYS. Is is possible to use a financial aid offer at one of the three to negotiate an offer with one of the other three? As in, "Well, Stanford calculated my need as XYZ, could Harvard match it?" Thank you!

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby haus » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:05 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:EDIT. NC STATE flopped and screwed me. Back to my day job. New blog is already up will link below.

Sorry to hear that you received your ticket back to the world of us working stiffs. Liked the blog entry though.

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John Everyman
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby John Everyman » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:41 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
johnnyt wrote:Thank you for taking your time to answer so many questions! I have a questions about being a Canadian URM. It seems that the boost for international URMs is a very grey area, and being Canadian makes it even greyer. Could you please comment on International/Canadian URM boosts? I am black btw.

Thank a ton!


I won't comment specifically on the URM boost, so I am afraid that it will remain a grey area.

But I will give you some info about ABA reporting that you may not be aware of: When schools report ethnicity to the ABA, they only count US citizens and Permanent Residents in the ethnicity data, so if you are a citizen of another country -regardless of ethnicity - you are counted as a non-resident alien.
Let me stress that this is only for ABA reporting purposes -- I am not implying that this effects any decisions on applications, I just wanted to bring it us because most people are unaware of this reporting structure. And I'd imagine that schools can use whatever methods they want to report ethnicity on promotional or internal material.

Admissions officers are not blind to the benefits of having international students in their classes, so it will certainly not be a detriment to your application. And your ethnicity is still a part of your identity, regardless of citizenship, and admissions officers aren't blind to that either.

Hope this is helpful!

Cheers,
KB


Do you happen to know how schools report data when someone selects more than one ethnicity? Is it the discretion of the school? For instance, if someone is 1/4 Hispanic and also identifies as Caucasian and checks both boxes, does the school consider this student an addition to their Hispanic population or their Caucasian population in the ABA statistics?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:09 pm

John Everyman wrote:
Do you happen to know how schools report data when someone selects more than one ethnicity? Is it the discretion of the school? For instance, if someone is 1/4 Hispanic and also identifies as Caucasian and checks both boxes, does the school consider this student an addition to their Hispanic population or their Caucasian population in the ABA statistics?


If the applicant selects Hispanic, they will be reported as Hispanic no matter how many other ethnicities they check. If the person is two or more races (and not at all Hispanic) then they fall in the "two or more races" category.

I didn't write the instructions, I'm just reporting them :)

KB

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John Everyman
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby John Everyman » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:12 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
John Everyman wrote:
Do you happen to know how schools report data when someone selects more than one ethnicity? Is it the discretion of the school? For instance, if someone is 1/4 Hispanic and also identifies as Caucasian and checks both boxes, does the school consider this student an addition to their Hispanic population or their Caucasian population in the ABA statistics?


If the applicant selects Hispanic, they will be reported as Hispanic no matter how many other ethnicities they check. If the person is two or more races (and not at all Hispanic) then they fall in the "two or more races" category.

I didn't write the instructions, I'm just reporting them :)

KB


Thank you. I apologize, Hispanic was a bad example as you have to specify that a bit differently than other races. I also found that you addressed this regarding Native Americans awhile back:

I'll chime in here with a few points that I hope will help clarify:
--> Schools can report things differently than the ABA breakdown for marketing purposes without manipulating real numbers/people. For example, they can include all of the "two or more" races in with a broader "students of color" percentage. Or they can identify the number of Native Americans on their website by including all that checked that box (even if they checked other boxes). So, there is some benefit strictly on a numbers reporting basis.
--> It actually matters to an admissions officer beyond the numbers reporting who the individual is and what they can bring to the classroom and the community. The 'bump' motive is not solely based on what the admissions office can report.


Using this wonderful tool called a search function...who would've thought.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:18 pm

John Everyman wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
John Everyman wrote:
Do you happen to know how schools report data when someone selects more than one ethnicity? Is it the discretion of the school? For instance, if someone is 1/4 Hispanic and also identifies as Caucasian and checks both boxes, does the school consider this student an addition to their Hispanic population or their Caucasian population in the ABA statistics?


If the applicant selects Hispanic, they will be reported as Hispanic no matter how many other ethnicities they check. If the person is two or more races (and not at all Hispanic) then they fall in the "two or more races" category.

I didn't write the instructions, I'm just reporting them :)

KB


Thank you. I apologize, Hispanic was a bad example as you have to specify that a bit differently than other races. I also found that you addressed this regarding Native Americans awhile back:

I'll chime in here with a few points that I hope will help clarify:
--> Schools can report things differently than the ABA breakdown for marketing purposes without manipulating real numbers/people. For example, they can include all of the "two or more" races in with a broader "students of color" percentage. Or they can identify the number of Native Americans on their website by including all that checked that box (even if they checked other boxes). So, there is some benefit strictly on a numbers reporting basis.
--> It actually matters to an admissions officer beyond the numbers reporting who the individual is and what they can bring to the classroom and the community. The 'bump' motive is not solely based on what the admissions office can report.


Using this wonderful tool called a search function...who would've thought.


Oh! I love it when I agree with myself!

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SnakySalmon
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby SnakySalmon » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:44 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a look at this cycle to date and a quick stab at things to come.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/a-look ... ons-cycle/


Interesting read as always!


Is anyone else unable to access it? I've been entirely unable to connect to Spiveyconsulting for about a day.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:56 pm

SnakySalmon wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a look at this cycle to date and a quick stab at things to come.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/a-look ... ons-cycle/


Interesting read as always!


Is anyone else unable to access it? I've been entirely unable to connect to Spiveyconsulting for about a day.


That's not good. Does any message pop up as to why?

tmkm
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby tmkm » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:03 pm

To what extent would a school visit+interview with the dean affect an applicant's chances of admittance if he/she is on the school's preserved wait-list?

Would it make any difference if the school is located significantly far from the applicant's hometown? i.e. >500miles away

thank you!

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SnakySalmon
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby SnakySalmon » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:51 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
SnakySalmon wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Here is a look at this cycle to date and a quick stab at things to come.

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/a-look ... ons-cycle/


Interesting read as always!


Is anyone else unable to access it? I've been entirely unable to connect to Spiveyconsulting for about a day.


That's not good. Does any message pop up as to why?


"Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to spiveyconsulting.com

Try reloading: spiveyconsulting­.­com"

The rest of the internet works fine.

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Nonconsecutive » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:24 pm

SnakySalmon wrote:"Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to spiveyconsulting.com

Try reloading: spiveyconsulting­.­com"

The rest of the internet works fine.


Interesting, just tried it with Chrome and its working on my end.


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