Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:28 am

sandwich wrote:
acat10 wrote:maybe a silly question about app deadlines...:shock:

What happens if you try to apply to a school whose deadline has already passed? Does anyone get admitted that way? Will it be unfavorable to you if you then apply to that school in the next cycle, because they remember that you tried to apply late last cycle? Or will you not be able to submit a late app on LSAC at all?

I'm curious because I applied late this cycle and didn't apply to as many schools as I probably should have. There's a good chance that I might wait for the next cycle instead. I was toying with the idea of throwing some late apps at schools where deadlines already passed, if it does any good, and if it doesn't do any harm for next cycle.



Interested in this as well. I assume this is implied by the question, but just to be clear, since I know that some schools have a "deadline" but then say that they will look at 'late' apps but won't promise a response by any date, I'm mostly interested in schools that actually say "we don't accept late apps" (i.e. Boalt, etc).

I will also likely not apply next year and enroll in law school instead. But, like the OP, I'm now wishing I would have applied to more schools, if only to know about scholarships. So I have less to lose, but I wouldn't want to waste the app fee if they would NEVER look at it.

Thanks Mike and Karen!


Ethically, it would be wrong for a school to take your application fee and not read your file -- that's just not right. Many will allow a late application if you contact them and ask. Some schools actually shut down the e-app through LSAC at a certain date/time and it really will become impossible to submit an app past the deadline.

There is no harm in re-applying if you apply late this cycle and are not successful. You really have nothing to lose (except the app fee :) and that you'll have to come up with some fresh material for a PS next year since you'll usually want a new PS for a re-app).

So, my advice is to contact the school directly and ask about submitting an application late. and if you can, go for it!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:35 am

logicspeaks wrote:A couple of questions:

1) How is work experience during undegrad viewed? It's retail, but I've been working 30 hours a week since I started school.
2) How valuable is overcoming adversity, really? I made an effort to make sure my PS and DS didn't sound like a sob story, but I did make references to poverty, homelessness, and lack of a high school diploma.


All of these factors are considered as part of the application - especially if the applicant has done relatively well despite all of the struggle. But to know how much it matters in an application really depends on other factors in the application. For example, I can tell you that these things really do make a difference in many cases where the GPA may not be reflective of true ability, but it is not going to mitigate a GPA that is really off the mark.

How you convey the story matters too - tone and attitude make a huge difference in the mind of an application reader.

I hope this is somewhat helpful!
Cheers,
KB

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W$RKliveWELL
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby W$RKliveWELL » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:12 pm

Karen thank you!

Baby_Got_Feuerbach
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Baby_Got_Feuerbach » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:29 pm

I suppose anyone could chime in here:

I've submitted apps and LSAC shows that reports have been generated, everything is set. When will I hear from schools (to get status checkers, all that)? Part of me is worried that I did something wrong since I haven't heard back -- but maybe it's not an automatic process. (I submitted the apps over the weekend.)

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bombaysippin
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bombaysippin » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:49 pm

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:I suppose anyone could chime in here:

I've submitted apps and LSAC shows that reports have been generated, everything is set. When will I hear from schools (to get status checkers, all that)? Part of me is worried that I did something wrong since I haven't heard back -- but maybe it's not an automatic process. (I submitted the apps over the weekend.)


It hasn't even been one business day yet lol. You just gotta wait a little, don't worry.

Baby_Got_Feuerbach
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Baby_Got_Feuerbach » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:02 pm

Bajam wrote:
Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:I suppose anyone could chime in here:

I've submitted apps and LSAC shows that reports have been generated, everything is set. When will I hear from schools (to get status checkers, all that)? Part of me is worried that I did something wrong since I haven't heard back -- but maybe it's not an automatic process. (I submitted the apps over the weekend.)


It hasn't even been one business day yet lol. You just gotta wait a little, don't worry.


I just don't want to skip any steps this late in the game :-)

Thanks

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alecks
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby alecks » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:32 pm

Is there any harm in getting rejected from a school and then applying again next cycle? I didn't score on the February LSAT as I'd hoped and I'm wondering if I should withdraw (already lost my app fee) or by some miracle of gob let my apps be considered with my lower-than-anticipated LSAT score. Financial aid isn't really a big deal for me, so I'd take an admit any way I can.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:00 pm

alecks wrote:Is there any harm in getting rejected from a school and then applying again next cycle? I didn't score on the February LSAT as I'd hoped and I'm wondering if I should withdraw (already lost my app fee) or by some miracle of gob let my apps be considered with my lower-than-anticipated LSAT score. Financial aid isn't really a big deal for me, so I'd take an admit any way I can.


This is a tough question, and I'm sorry that you didn't do as well as you hoped. I think if you know that the answer is going to be no, and you plan on retaking and reapplying, then just make the decision to withdraw rather than have a deny decision be made for you. It will put you in a much better mindset when you reapply next year.

A previous deny re-app isn't detrimental as long as something has changed -- like a new score.

Kuledj
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Kuledj » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:41 pm

Hi

I applied to several PT programs about 2 months ago and have yet to hear back from a couple of them. Based on the forums it does not appear that any PTers have been accepted or rejected as of yet, but if I am going to go to my first choice (out of town) I need to know sooner rather than later in order to facilitate moving...

Do you think it's ok to connect with them either via phone or email (if yes, which one is better) to express my continued interest and my need to know as soon as possible?

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haus
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby haus » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:57 pm

Kuledj,

As someone applying only to PT programs myself I thought I would share an observation. In the last few years some law schools have dramatically reduced the size of their PT programs, apparently in fear of a magazine that is not even printed anymore. I suspect these new smaller classes sizes makes it difficult to know much before application deadline time what they can put together for a class.

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drawstring
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drawstring » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:21 pm

:D
Last edited by drawstring on Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:25 pm

Kuledj wrote:Hi

I applied to several PT programs about 2 months ago and have yet to hear back from a couple of them. Based on the forums it does not appear that any PTers have been accepted or rejected as of yet, but if I am going to go to my first choice (out of town) I need to know sooner rather than later in order to facilitate moving...

Do you think it's ok to connect with them either via phone or email (if yes, which one is better) to express my continued interest and my need to know as soon as possible?


The waiting is the hardest part, and I hate to tell you that you will just have to be patient here. I don't find it unusual that you haven't heard back yet, and as long as you haven't received notice that your application is incomplete, I wouldn't suggest calling to ask for a speedy answer --it's too early to start asking for that. If you still haven't heard by the last week in March, then you may call....but be nice!

Kuledj
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Kuledj » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:44 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
Kuledj wrote:Hi

I applied to several PT programs about 2 months ago and have yet to hear back from a couple of them. Based on the forums it does not appear that any PTers have been accepted or rejected as of yet, but if I am going to go to my first choice (out of town) I need to know sooner rather than later in order to facilitate moving...

Do you think it's ok to connect with them either via phone or email (if yes, which one is better) to express my continued interest and my need to know as soon as possible?


The waiting is the hardest part, and I hate to tell you that you will just have to be patient here. I don't find it unusual that you haven't heard back yet, and as long as you haven't received notice that your application is incomplete, I wouldn't suggest calling to ask for a speedy answer --it's too early to start asking for that. If you still haven't heard by the last week in March, then you may call....but be nice!


Thanks! I always am nice :). My idea for calling was to express my interest, but I guess I'll bite my tongue

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dd235
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby dd235 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:27 pm

Hey Mike and Karen,

This is a purely hypothetical, but I can see it happening to me in the future and I have been very curious about it. Let's say that I submit my deposit to the school that I want to attend. I retake the LSAT in June and score substantiality higher. My new LSAT score makes me much more competitive to some of my dream schools for next cycle, and the school I currently deposited to offers me a full-tuition scholarship in response to my higher score. If I want to try my luck at my dream schools for next cycle, would I be completely out of luck at the school I deposited to this cycle next time around? I assume they would likely not reaccept me after I had deposited last cycle and turned down a full-ride. They would still be a competitive choice for me, but I would want to test my luck at some other schools.

Thanks for dedicating a bunch of your time to this forum (and sorry if my wording is confusing)

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:33 pm

dd235 wrote:Hey Mike and Karen,

This is a purely hypothetical, but I can see it happening to me in the future and I have been very curious about it. Let's say that I submit my deposit to the school that I want to attend. I retake the LSAT in June and score substantiality higher. My new LSAT score makes me much more competitive to some of my dream schools for next cycle, and the school I currently deposited to offers me a full-tuition scholarship in response to my higher score. If I want to try my luck at my dream schools for next cycle, would I be completely out of luck at the school I deposited to this cycle next time around? I assume they would likely not reaccept me after I had deposited last cycle and turned down a full-ride. They would still be a competitive choice for me, but I would want to test my luck at some other schools.

Thanks for dedicating a bunch of your time to this forum (and sorry if my wording is confusing)


There are a few key factors here: timing and manner of the withdrawal are very important to the reapplication process. You want to be thoughtful in your withdrawal, giving them enough time to replace you in the entering class. Basically, you don't want to burn your hypothetical bridges. :)
kb

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sandwich
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby sandwich » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:46 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
sandwich wrote:


Ethically, it would be wrong for a school to take your application fee and not read your file -- that's just not right. Many will allow a late application if you contact them and ask. Some schools actually shut down the e-app through LSAC at a certain date/time and it really will become impossible to submit an app past the deadline.

There is no harm in re-applying if you apply late this cycle and are not successful. You really have nothing to lose (except the app fee :) and that you'll have to come up with some fresh material for a PS next year since you'll usually want a new PS for a re-app).

So, my advice is to contact the school directly and ask about submitting an application late. and if you can, go for it!


Thanks Karen!

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Sgt Brody.
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Sgt Brody. » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:31 pm

Hey Mike/Karen

I wanted to know your opinions/thoughts on this. Is being a first generation college student/immigrant considered a soft? Do u think generally first generation college student/immigrant tend to over perform/underperform their numbers. And my personal statement and diversity statement would touch upon those topics for what its worth

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Pneumonia
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:19 pm

Mike and Karen,

I applied pretty broadly and after hearing from schools have recently narrowed down my options. I sent courteous "withdrawal" emails to several schools and a few of them have replied and asked where I will be attending in the fall. I was wondering what use a school would have for this info? Are they just curious?

Obviously you don't know about schools specifically, but I was wondering if you're aware of any general trends? Thanks!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:54 pm

Pneumonia wrote:Mike and Karen,

I applied pretty broadly and after hearing from schools have recently narrowed down my options. I sent courteous "withdrawal" emails to several schools and a few of them have replied and asked where I will be attending in the fall. I was wondering what use a school would have for this info? Are they just curious?

Obviously you don't know about schools specifically, but I was wondering if you're aware of any general trends? Thanks!


Admissions offices keep track of a ton of information, and knowing which law schools your admits are going instead of yours is very helpful for future planning.

Think about it, if you were dating someone and they broke up with you, wouldn't you want to know why? Think of the law school admissions office as a rejected love interest. They might even be singing this 80's pop tune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPudE8nDog0

rwhyAn
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby rwhyAn » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:13 pm

Mike and/or Karen,

How long should one wait after receiving a scholarship notification before trying to negotiate aid? I ended up applying late and only received the notification this week, but with deposit deadlines coming up, I don't want to wait too long. I'm slightly above the school's 75th percentile LSAT and just below their 25th GPA. I received a generous offer recently, but I was hoping to get more, and I don't want to appear ungrateful. That said, I have a full ride offer to a slightly lower ranked school in the same area, and I could also attend a slightly higher ranked school in the neighboring state debt-free.

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drawstring
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drawstring » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:02 pm

Sorry if this has been answered,

After emailing an update, how long does it usually take for that info to be added to one's file once it's received? Do adcoms get any notification that there has been an update or will they only find out about it once they get back to reviewing my file?

Thanks!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:56 pm

drawstring wrote:Sorry if this has been answered,

After emailing an update, how long does it usually take for that info to be added to one's file once it's received? Do adcoms get any notification that there has been an update or will they only find out about it once they get back to reviewing my file?

Thanks!


Obviously it depends on the school but the update will likely be in your file immediately.

Here is the catch, though. In most cases I bet adcoms don't get any notification. This is one (of several) reasons why I am gun-shy about many updates. They will see it if you are on the WL and you reach out to them directly, or if you have a relationship with them from a forum, etc. But a blind email to the front office might stay hidden in your file for months.

Mike

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:58 pm

To someone who recently read through this thread:

Have I done a post on "What does it mean when a law school says 'We do not rank the wait list'"?

Thanks!

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TheodoreKGB
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby TheodoreKGB » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:07 pm

.
Last edited by TheodoreKGB on Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SnakySalmon
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby SnakySalmon » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:55 am

MikeSpivey wrote:To someone who recently read through this thread:

Have I done a post on "What does it mean when a law school says 'We do not rank the wait list'"?

Thanks!


If you have, it was after you made up that PDF of answers. I'd seen Yale say that and assumed it meant that people were sometimes grabbed for diversity reasons, which makes ranking it hard. Also, that they don't feel compelled to tell people where they stand whenever they call.


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