Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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act
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby act » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:30 pm

Deleted!
Last edited by act on Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:52 pm

I'm not going to quote this, so that it's not here permanently. But you may want to consider asking Mike that in a PM and deleting the post here. It's a pretty specifically identifiable thing to your app, and would make it easy for adcoms to link your username to your real name, which a lot of people on this board try to avoid. Just sending out the friendly advice!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:53 pm

In general, using the F-word in a personal statement is not wise. Remember that you are applying to law school - a professional school - and many adcoms will not see that as appropriate (even if they drop F-bombs daily, there's a place for it :))
I would either use *** or downgrade the language, or my personal favorite: find an alternative way to express the sentiment without swearing.

EDIT: took out original question
Last edited by KarenButtenbaum on Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

act
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby act » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:55 pm

lawschool22 wrote:I'm not going to quote this, so that it's not here permanently. But you may want to consider asking Mike that in a PM and deleting the post here. It's a pretty specifically identifiable thing to your app, and would make it easy for adcoms to link your username to your real name, which a lot of people on this board try to avoid. Just sending out the friendly advice!


Thanks for the advice!

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rutgers17
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby rutgers17 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:38 pm

What are your thoughts on the somewhat puzzling Penn cycle so far?

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby iamgeorgebush » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:41 pm

rutgers17 wrote:What are your thoughts on the somewhat puzzling Penn cycle so far?

Why is it puzzling?

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rutgers17
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby rutgers17 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:50 pm

iamgeorgebush wrote:
rutgers17 wrote:What are your thoughts on the somewhat puzzling Penn cycle so far?

Why is it puzzling?


Numerous outstanding LSAT/3.8x waitlists. Not quite YP territory but definitely stats that many thought would easily get into Penn. Also, almost everything I've seen on TLS regarding ED at Penn suggested that it would make zero difference, but we saw very low LSAT scorers get in via ED (myself included). Seems very strange to me and a lot of others on the Penn thread. LS22 had a great theory about it, I'm wondering if Mike and Karen have any of their own.

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby iamgeorgebush » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:26 pm

rutgers17 wrote:
iamgeorgebush wrote:
rutgers17 wrote:What are your thoughts on the somewhat puzzling Penn cycle so far?

Why is it puzzling?


Numerous outstanding LSAT/3.8x waitlists. Not quite YP territory but definitely stats that many thought would easily get into Penn. Also, almost everything I've seen on TLS regarding ED at Penn suggested that it would make zero difference, but we saw very low LSAT scorers get in via ED (myself included). Seems very strange to me and a lot of others on the Penn thread. LS22 had a great theory about it, I'm wondering if Mike and Karen have any of their own.

Hasn't Penn been YP WLing people for a long time, esp. those with good numbers who don't write Why Penns? At least, that's the impression I got looking at LSN. A mylsn.info search with my numbers yields 11 acc. 12 WLs 0 rej. at Penn, Penn having lowest T14 acceptance percentage outside of HYS. (My numbers, for reference, are good but not "outstanding"---I'll still probably get rejected from all three of HYS.)

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:01 am

It's not YP in my opinion, but also not puzzling really It's primarily below median GPAs getting wait listed. See the penn thread a few pages back. I posted a ton of myLSN charts showing this. Penn just has a small class size that, coupled with the 169 median, allowed them to give more high GPA candidates a look this cycle as compare to last.

Plenty of high LSAT people wrote why penn essays and got wait listed.

Obviously I can't prove this, but I think a careful look at myLSN charts will show this.

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rutgers17
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby rutgers17 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:09 am

lawschool22 wrote:It's not YP in my opinion, but also not puzzling really It's primarily below median GPAs getting wait listed. See the penn thread a few pages back. I posted a ton of myLSN charts showing this. Penn just has a small class size that, coupled with the 169 median, allowed them to give more high GPA candidates a look this cycle as compare to last.

Plenty of high LSAT people wrote why penn essays and got wait listed.

Obviously I can't prove this, but I think a careful look at myLSN charts will show this.


Any opinion on the ED admissions? I don't remember exactly where it was but there was a chart floating around TLS that claimed no significant difference specifically for reverse splitters between ED and RD. At least basing things on the Penn thread, we saw a fair number of < median and even <25th LSAT acceptances ED. I have a lot of trouble believing those would have been accepted RD (without a waitlist). Have they changed their ways for ED? If so, I'd be interested to know why.

scoopDeeDoo
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby scoopDeeDoo » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:13 am

..
Last edited by scoopDeeDoo on Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:25 am

scoopDeeDoo wrote:Do adcomms collude in any way, particularly at the top?


No, they do not

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:26 am

My thoughts on penn are pretty simple: there will be more movement in the coming weeks, I think

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patogordo
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby patogordo » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:20 am

scoopDeeDoo wrote:Do adcomms collude in any way, particularly at the top?

how would this even work?

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snagglepuss
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby snagglepuss » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:36 am

patogordo wrote:
scoopDeeDoo wrote:Do adcomms collude in any way, particularly at the top?

how would this even work?

Text from Stanford AdCom to Harvard AdCom: "I'll reject this 3.8/178 if you reject that 4.1/172."

Yeah, I don't see it.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:59 pm

Hey all, I was away for much of last week but back on here this week. i owe about 80 people PM answers and then I'll wrap up some questions here!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:03 pm

patogordo wrote:
scoopDeeDoo wrote:Do adcomms collude in any way, particularly at the top?

how would this even work?


They easily could...(in fact Yale and Princeton were busted for this undergraduate years ago). Karen and I won't speculate about this publicly. Privately I speculate on it all the time and she tells me to grow up.

Edit. For the record the fact that I speculate on it doesn't mean that I think it happens. But I think of various scenarios it could happen.

deebanger
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby deebanger » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:20 pm

Hello Karen and Mike, What exactly are the qualities expected in a good personal statement ? So, my personal statement tells a story about me. It tells something that my resume/letter of recs dont. It tells a little about my background, my immigrant life story. Now my main question is does a good personal statement absolutely have to have a "why law" thing tied into the story. Is it mandatory to have a why law paragraph? my only concern is that my personal statement may seem a little too similar to my diversity statement. I really appreciate your help!!!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:09 pm

deebanger wrote:Hello Karen and Mike, What exactly are the qualities expected in a good personal statement ? So, my personal statement tells a story about me. It tells something that my resume/letter of recs dont. It tells a little about my background, my immigrant life story. Now my main question is does a good personal statement absolutely have to have a "why law" thing tied into the story. Is it mandatory to have a why law paragraph? my only concern is that my personal statement may seem a little too similar to my diversity statement. I really appreciate your help!!!


Absolutely not. I read a great one today that never mentioned the word law.

The one thing to always remember is the person reading yours just read 100 pages -- and will thousands of pages the same cycle. If you can be different you can stand, if you can stand out you can elevate your file.

Our clients are mostly splitters. For splitters we play it it a bit differently because we think we can get them in to their strong choices with a strategy that puts time on our side and has the admissions folks really feel like they know the client. So that often means with do like personal statements that end with a transition to law school. But for certain schools and certain clients we would never talk about why law in the ps.

Typed on iPhone so apologies for typos.

deebanger
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby deebanger » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:37 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
deebanger wrote:Hello Karen and Mike, What exactly are the qualities expected in a good personal statement ? So, my personal statement tells a story about me. It tells something that my resume/letter of recs dont. It tells a little about my background, my immigrant life story. Now my main question is does a good personal statement absolutely have to have a "why law" thing tied into the story. Is it mandatory to have a why law paragraph? my only concern is that my personal statement may seem a little too similar to my diversity statement. I really appreciate your help!!!


Absolutely not. I read a great one today that never mentioned the word law.

The one thing to always remember is the person reading yours just read 100 pages -- and will thousands of pages the same cycle. If you can be different you can stand, if you can stand out you can elevate your file.

Our clients are mostly splitters. For splitters we play it it a bit differently because we think we can get them in to their strong choices with a strategy that puts time on our side and has the admissions folks really feel like they know the client. So that often means with do like personal statements that end with a transition to law school. But for certain schools and certain clients we would never talk about why law in the ps.

Typed on iPhone so apologies for typos.


Thank you so much for your reply, and since my ps does not have a so called why law paragraph, will it be a problem that it is a little too similar to my diversity statement. Even though I tried really hard to make a distinction between the two, I felt that it ended up being quite similar. The diversity statement has the same first generation immigrant/ economic hardship narrative. Will that be a problem or hurt in some way? And once again I am really grateful for your help!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:11 am

deebanger wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
deebanger wrote:Hello Karen and Mike, What exactly are the qualities expected in a good personal statement ? So, my personal statement tells a story about me. It tells something that my resume/letter of recs dont. It tells a little about my background, my immigrant life story. Now my main question is does a good personal statement absolutely have to have a "why law" thing tied into the story. Is it mandatory to have a why law paragraph? my only concern is that my personal statement may seem a little too similar to my diversity statement. I really appreciate your help!!!


Absolutely not. I read a great one today that never mentioned the word law.

The one thing to always remember is the person reading yours just read 100 pages -- and will thousands of pages the same cycle. If you can be different you can stand, if you can stand out you can elevate your file.

Our clients are mostly splitters. For splitters we play it it a bit differently because we think we can get them in to their strong choices with a strategy that puts time on our side and has the admissions folks really feel like they know the client. So that often means with do like personal statements that end with a transition to law school. But for certain schools and certain clients we would never talk about why law in the ps.

Typed on iPhone so apologies for typos.


Thank you so much for your reply, and since my ps does not have a so called why law paragraph, will it be a problem that it is a little too similar to my diversity statement. Even though I tried really hard to make a distinction between the two, I felt that it ended up being quite similar. The diversity statement has the same first generation immigrant/ economic hardship narrative. Will that be a problem or hurt in some way? And once again I am really grateful for your help!


Remember that the same person is going to be reading the two statements - probably one right after the other - and you don't want them to wonder if they've already read the second statement before. It is quite possible that you only need one statement if they are truly similar. But they are both about you, so it makes sense if they refer to the same overall theme, but you do want them to be distinctly different essays.

Cheers,
KB

wetbandit
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby wetbandit » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:41 pm

Delete.
Last edited by wetbandit on Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:45 pm

wetbandit wrote:Will schools treat me any differently if they suspect I will defer? I don't plan to, but I don't know if I made that clear enough in my application. (I am a graduate student in another program and--if I *weren't* taking a leave of absence for law school--would finish in 2015 or 2016.) At least one school emailed me and asked me to clarify my plans, and so far I've heard less news than my numbers and submit dates would suggest. Is this baseless paranoia? If not, is it worth emailing admissions offices to say I expect to start in the fall?

Thanks in advance. Sorry if you've addressed this and I missed it.


Likely. I wouldn't tip that hat until you are certain.

As an aside, this would have been a PLUS for you in the go-go years 6 years ago.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:25 am

I had dinner tonight with the Dean of Colorado Law. they are hosting a nationwide conference on the future of law school innovation and I am invited. But here is the interest to you. There will be associate deans/deans from numerous other law schools there. In fact, it runs up against an associate deans conference in Boulder, so there will be numerous important people.

"Why are you telling us this?"

BECAUSE YOU ARE INVITED. Using my advanced negotiation tactics and/or a snow storm that had Dean Weiser just agreeing with me to get home, he said I can tweet the invitation and all my twitter followers can attend, if they want. I'll tweet that link tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult

Even if just one person from here attended that would be awesome. Plus I'll take whoever does out for coffee and we can talk admissions.

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sandwich
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby sandwich » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:37 am

Can we all just agree that Mike is officially the most awesome dude on the planet?


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