Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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Which would you prefer most?

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:18 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:Good stuff. If you were to send Mike anywhere in the US for slacking off on TLS this week, where would you send him?


I would send him skiing somewhere in Colorado :)

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:37 pm

For those who haven't yet seen the news, 1L enrollment is down 11%. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... ata_shows/

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:01 am

jenesaislaw wrote:For those who haven't yet seen the news, 1L enrollment is down 11%. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... ata_shows/


Good news for applicants and graduates alike. And by all accounts enrollment will be down again this year as well.

Instinctive
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Instinctive » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:05 am

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
ZVBXRPL wrote:Good stuff. If you were to send Mike anywhere in the US for slacking off on TLS this week, where would you send him?


I would send him skiing somewhere in Colorado :)


It is BEAUTIFUL here right now. I know that's not law school related, but you made an excellent choice.

Baby_Got_Feuerbach
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Baby_Got_Feuerbach » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:50 am

One school has invited me to an online chat (I'm sure others here have received the same invite). Haven't taken the LSAT yet (Feb.) but have been in communication with this school's office of admissions, re: fee waivers and deadlines. Is it smart to keep in communication with schools via email to show an interest / continued interest, i.e., are communications put into a folder and checked when they're looking to take an applicant off the WL?

Instinctive
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Instinctive » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:51 pm

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:One school has invited me to an online chat (I'm sure others here have received the same invite). Haven't taken the LSAT yet (Feb.) but have been in communication with this school's office of admissions, re: fee waivers and deadlines. Is it smart to keep in communication with schools via email to show an interest / continued interest, i.e., are communications put into a folder and checked when they're looking to take an applicant off the WL?


This is (I think) meant for contacting offices after having applied, but I'm sure many of the same principles are applicable. Hope it helps: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/pressu ... pestering/

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:01 pm

I would definitely attend the online chat. An interesting aside to the blog article that Instinctive was gracious enough to link, BEFORE you apply you can stay in touch a good bit more than after you apply. So yes, let them know you love them before you became a 180 applicant.

californiauser
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby californiauser » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:29 pm

californiauser wrote:Do schools email each other about applicants' decision to ED. For example, when NYU receives an ED application, do they email their peer schools to notify them/make sure the applicant didn't ED to multiple schools? Or do they only notify peer schools after an applicant has been accepted?

Thanks guys

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:35 pm

californiauser wrote:
californiauser wrote:Do schools email each other about applicants' decision to ED. For example, when NYU receives an ED application, do they email their peer schools to notify them/make sure the applicant didn't ED to multiple schools? Or do they only notify peer schools after an applicant has been accepted?

Thanks guys


Some have started doing this, it seems. Study anti-trust law and collusion well and let me know what you think in a few years.

californiauser
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby californiauser » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:36 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
californiauser wrote:
californiauser wrote:Do schools email each other about applicants' decision to ED. For example, when NYU receives an ED application, do they email their peer schools to notify them/make sure the applicant didn't ED to multiple schools? Or do they only notify peer schools after an applicant has been accepted?

Thanks guys


Some have started doing this, it seems. Study anti-trust law and collusion well and let me know what you think in a few years.


Wow, that seems absurd. Thanks Mike, you're doing us a great service here.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:22 pm

The October LSAT isn't even in October now:

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult

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bombaysippin
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bombaysippin » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:07 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:The October LSAT isn't even in October now:

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult


Why don't they just number the LSATs in the year starting 1 at wherever LSAC arbitrarily sets it?

ETA: Not that it really matters for anything haha

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JustHawkin
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby JustHawkin » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:50 pm

I've seen this touched upon before, but just curious:

Although it may vary from school to school, do schools generally add applicant correspondence to an applicant's file always/mostly/occasionally/not usually/rarely?

I'm curious if they keep note of an applicant's genuine interest in the school?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:00 pm

JustHawkin wrote:I've seen this touched upon before, but just curious:

Although it may vary from school to school, do schools generally add applicant correspondence to an applicant's file always/mostly/occasionally/not usually/rarely?

I'm curious if they keep note of an applicant's genuine interest in the school?


As you pretty much allude to, it varies from school to school but I would answer this as "Mostly"

tlsthrowaway
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby tlsthrowaway » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:12 pm

Mike and Karen:

Could either of you possibly offer your thoughts on the value of splitters this cycle? There have been a number of debates that have popped up this cycle about what effect dropping medians will have on the value of splitters. Some people think that since medians are now lower, more applicants are at/above the medians and so splitter value is diluted. Other claim that, since apps are down especially at the top, there are actually fewer or the same number of people AT the new medians, and so splitters are similarly valued. Obviously, I'm missing large chunks of the argument and don't want to misrepresent anyone's point, so maybe just take this as a brief overview of the debate...

There's an entirely separate debate about the value of gpa vs lsat, which I think ties in here. I have read this entire thread and the pdf, so I know you've both touched on/alluded to all these questions kinds of indirectly before (like 3 weeks ago), but I'm having a tough time synthesizing all of your great info into a solid answer to the question of lsat/splitter/gpa value.

many thanks!

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Nonconsecutive » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:50 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:The October LSAT isn't even in October now:

https://twitter.com/SpiveyConsult


I wondered when we would see a return to September.

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drawstring
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drawstring » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:54 pm

Karen,

(1) For what reasons have you rejected or waitlisted a HLS applicant with above median numbers who submitted relatively early?
(2) Does not knowing what area of law one wants to work in reflect poorly on an applicant?

Thanks so much to you and Mike for your time.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:56 pm

drawstring wrote:Karen,

(1) For what reasons have you rejected or waitlisted a HLS applicant with above median numbers who submitted relatively early?
(2) Does not knowing what area of law one wants to work in reflect poorly on an applicant?

Thanks so much to you and Mike for your time.


drawstring,

1. There are a number of reasons why this would happen, and none of them should surprise you: character and fitness issues; terrible PS/DS/resume that either shows very poor writing ability, judgment issues or extreme immaturity; or perhaps the interview did not go well.
2. Not knowing exactly what you want to do with your law degree is normal and somewhat expected -- you may very well change your mind when you are in law school. You should, however, be able to articulate why you want to go to law school in general.

Cheers,
KB

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drawstring
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drawstring » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:36 pm

Thanks for the response Karen :)

And when you mention an interview not going well, do you mean someone totally bombing, or can it also be more subtle (e.g. they were obviously nervous, stuttered occasionally, had to repeat themselves, etc.)?
Last edited by drawstring on Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

ltrego
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby ltrego » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:55 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:I've seen this touched upon before, but just curious:

Although it may vary from school to school, do schools generally add applicant correspondence to an applicant's file always/mostly/occasionally/not usually/rarely?

I'm curious if they keep note of an applicant's genuine interest in the school?


As you pretty much allude to, it varies from school to school but I would answer this as "Mostly"


This is interesting. Would you say this is only "mostly" true of correspondence with admissions, or is it also likely that correspondence with professors will make it into the file?

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby BmoreOrLess » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:00 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:I've seen this touched upon before, but just curious:

Although it may vary from school to school, do schools generally add applicant correspondence to an applicant's file always/mostly/occasionally/not usually/rarely?

I'm curious if they keep note of an applicant's genuine interest in the school?


As you pretty much allude to, it varies from school to school but I would answer this as "Mostly"


To piggyback on this, I applied to a school two years ago and I applied again this year. I had extensive scholarship negotiations with them that were mostly successful, but I decided not to pull the trigger. If this correspondence fell into the "mostly" category two years ago will this be in my current file?

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phillywc
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby phillywc » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:06 pm

If a school says they will add something to my file, and my date doesn't not change in the status checker afterwords, is this something I should be concerned about?

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twenty
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby twenty » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:29 pm

phillywc wrote:If a school says they will add something to my file, and my date doesn't not change in the status checker afterwords, is this something I should be concerned about?


You're probably not looking for non-Mike/Karen answers, but from personal reference, I emailed Berkeley, NYU and Harvard about the fact that my status checker hadn't changed even though I'd sent them something, and all three confirmed that they had already received it and added the documentation to my application.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:10 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
phillywc wrote:If a school says they will add something to my file, and my date doesn't not change in the status checker afterwords, is this something I should be concerned about?


You're probably not looking for non-Mike/Karen answers, but from personal reference, I emailed Berkeley, NYU and Harvard about the fact that my status checker hadn't changed even though I'd sent them something, and all three confirmed that they had already received it and added the documentation to my application.


In most cases, the status checker is directly linked to some status in the individual school's database, so it will not change with every piece of correspondence that is added to your file. For example, your current status and date of current status could be linked to your actual current status and date of current status at the school. So, if your status is 'Complete' they wouldn't necessarily change that status or the date if you updated your resume or sent in a LOCI.
There is a section for letters of rec on some status checkers, so that may change (or a school may choose only to update if the letter is sent through LSAC).
Also, the school can change what you see vs. what they see. For example, if they have an internal status of "lets hold on to this one" or "KB likey" they can change it so that all you see is "complete" and that may be why you sometimes see a date change on your status checker. And, in case you were wondering, those are fake statuses.
:)
Cheers,
KB

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:20 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:I've seen this touched upon before, but just curious:

Although it may vary from school to school, do schools generally add applicant correspondence to an applicant's file always/mostly/occasionally/not usually/rarely?

I'm curious if they keep note of an applicant's genuine interest in the school?


As you pretty much allude to, it varies from school to school but I would answer this as "Mostly"


To piggyback on this, I applied to a school two years ago and I applied again this year. I had extensive scholarship negotiations with them that were mostly successful, but I decided not to pull the trigger. If this correspondence fell into the "mostly" category two years ago will this be in my current file?


My take is that most schools do some sort of tracking on correspondence from applicants -- the extent of the tracking varies by school. It also varies with other offices, but many flow through the admissions offices so there is a chance that it will also be noted somewhere.
As far as the scholarship negotiation exchange, it will completely depend on the school and the length/tone/extent of the negotiations plus how you ultimately withdrew. Many fin aid offices are very closely connected to admissions offices, and sometimes you don't need a note in the file to remember a person's name and the exchange you had with them.

Cheers,
Karen


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