Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

Which would you prefer most?

Poll ended at Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:05 am

1. Blog advice
0
No votes
2. Podcast advice
0
No votes
3. Video advice
0
No votes
4. Just keep it all on TLS
0
No votes
5. Tweet it
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 0

User avatar
gb47
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:23 am

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby gb47 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:54 pm

I also wonder if the small decrease in scores 165-174 has to do with people holding out from last cycle. I can totally imagine someone with a 169 waiting a cycle in hopes that some of the lower T14 continue to lower their medians.

User avatar
outlawscr10
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:37 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby outlawscr10 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:56 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
outlawscr10 wrote:Is 2540 the right number there? That's a significant increase.


Somehow I got slightly different numbers. I think it's due to rounding.

I came up with a projection for 2013 of:

170-174: 1,903 (-92)
175-180: 598 (+64)
Total: 2,501 (-28)

Compared to 2012:

170-174: 1,995
175-180: 534
Total: 2,529


I was understanding that 2540 was the number 170-174. Was my fault.

User avatar
MikeSpivey
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 4:28 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:01 pm

SPerez wrote:
xylocarp wrote:Mike and Karen,

I apologize if you've commented on this before, but do you think we're seeing the beginnings of a trend with law schools cutting tuition? Penn State recently halved their in-state tuition, and University of Iowa just decreased out-of-state tuition by 16.4%. Any chance other schools will follow suit?


A long time ago, I was talking to a colleague from a private school. He told me about a period in his school's past where their app volume was lagging behind their peer schools. They had been positioning themselves to be the "value" among the similar schools in their region, with tuition below the peer group average. A consultant told them their tuition was too low, that applicants see a lower tuition and assume a lower quality education. They raised their tuition to above the peer average, offsetting it a bit with additional scholarships, and their applications went up.

Dean Perez


That is called a "giffin good" in economics terms. My MBA has now amounted to something, woo-hoo!

The classic example is Grey Poupon lowered their prices and sales dropped, raised and sales went back up.

User avatar
outlawscr10
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:37 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby outlawscr10 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:03 pm

Mike--Did you get the raw numbers for the 165-169 bracket?

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:30 pm

More news. HLS extends deadline to March 1 and accepts February scores for first-time takes. Mike, Karen, any thoughts? I know they said it's due to weather, but I can't imagine that many test takers were affected, and would Harvard really make that sort of change just for a few applicants?

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/admissions ... nes-oh-my/

User avatar
nothingtosee
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 12:08 am

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby nothingtosee » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:37 pm

lawschool22 wrote:More news. HLS extends deadline to March 1 and accepts February scores for first-time takes. Mike, Karen, any thoughts? I know they said it's due to weather, but I can't imagine that many test takers were affected, and would Harvard really make that sort of change just for a few applicants?

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/admissions ... nes-oh-my/


A further question: Is it a coincidence the bandwidth data and this notice are released on the same day?

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:40 pm

nothingtosee wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:More news. HLS extends deadline to March 1 and accepts February scores for first-time takes. Mike, Karen, any thoughts? I know they said it's due to weather, but I can't imagine that many test takers were affected, and would Harvard really make that sort of change just for a few applicants?

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/admissions ... nes-oh-my/


A further question: Is it a coincidence the bandwidth data and this notice are released on the same day?


I didn't even think of that...

User avatar
jingosaur
Posts: 2214
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby jingosaur » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:53 pm

I think it's a good point that many high scores sat out last year to apply this year. There's a chance that a lot more of the highest scorers are applying early and numbers will start falling as the application cycle moves forward. But who knows. Maybe more people are taking the LSAT more seriously because of the current job market or are using the TLS LSAT forum to get better scores. 38 more people for 175+ isn't statistically significant.

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:57 pm

jingosaur wrote:I think it's a good point that many high scores sat out last year to apply this year. There's a chance that a lot more of the highest scorers are applying early and numbers will start falling as the application cycle moves forward. But who knows. Maybe more people are taking the LSAT more seriously because of the current job market or are using the TLS LSAT forum to get better scores. 38 more people for 175+ isn't statistically significant.


Good point @ bolded

User avatar
Percival Jenkins
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:07 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Percival Jenkins » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:01 pm

It also is important to consider GPA. If a majority of the increased applicants don't have the right GPA then it further diminishes the fact that there more high scorers this cycle.

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:02 pm

nick1 wrote:It also is important to consider GPA. If a majority of the increased applicants don't have the right GPA then it further diminishes the fact that there more high scorers this cycle.


Yeah, unfortunately there is no way of knowing this.

User avatar
jingosaur
Posts: 2214
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby jingosaur » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:04 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
jingosaur wrote:I think it's a good point that many high scores sat out last year to apply this year. There's a chance that a lot more of the highest scorers are applying early and numbers will start falling as the application cycle moves forward. But who knows. Maybe more people are taking the LSAT more seriously because of the current job market or are using the TLS LSAT forum to get better scores. 38 more people for 175+ isn't statistically significant.


Good point @ bolded


Extreme confirmation bias helps me make strong arguments for things. :D

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:05 pm

jingosaur wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
jingosaur wrote:I think it's a good point that many high scores sat out last year to apply this year. There's a chance that a lot more of the highest scorers are applying early and numbers will start falling as the application cycle moves forward. But who knows. Maybe more people are taking the LSAT more seriously because of the current job market or are using the TLS LSAT forum to get better scores. 38 more people for 175+ isn't statistically significant.


Good point @ bolded


Extreme confirmation bias helps me make strong arguments for things. :D


I'm totally suffering from this condition

luckystar84
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:00 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby luckystar84 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:07 pm

deleted
Last edited by luckystar84 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

worried0L
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:04 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby worried0L » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:08 pm

clarification: these numbers are people who are applying with these numbers now, or the number of people who got these scores this cycle?

User avatar
bouleversement
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:50 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bouleversement » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:09 pm

bouleversement wrote:Mike & Karen,

Would an applicant on the fringe at [insert top school here] have any advantage this cycle in applying 15 December instead of 15 January? I realize in years past the credited response was to submit as early as possible but might that advice not apply this year since adcoms are so uncertain about the final composition of the applicant pool? They will take a look at the applications they have received by the end of the window without so much regard as to when in the window they arrived? I am asking solely in regard to applicants on the borderline.

Thank you for your time.


Mike and Karen,

Given the amount of activity here lately I hope you do not mind my re-posting of an earlier question.

Thank you!

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:10 pm

luckystar84 wrote:
jingosaur wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
jingosaur wrote:I think it's a good point that many high scores sat out last year to apply this year. There's a chance that a lot more of the highest scorers are applying early and numbers will start falling as the application cycle moves forward. But who knows. Maybe more people are taking the LSAT more seriously because of the current job market or are using the TLS LSAT forum to get better scores. 38 more people for 175+ isn't statistically significant.


Good point @ bolded


Extreme confirmation bias helps me make strong arguments for things. :D


i like how people pulling for a good cycle this year is saying things like "small nominal increase = large percentage increase" and "NSS" while taking stock in statements like "high scorers down by 10% while all scorers only down by 8%"

also, the -92 among 170-174...assuming uniform distribution, that's about 15-20 fewer 173s and 174s. there's no way that's statistically significant esp. since the denominator is so much bigger

#just-coming-from-someone-who-isn't-a-math-genius


Who said "high scorers down by 10% while all scorers only down by 8%" and who was taking stock in that?

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:02 pm

Mike and/or Karen - Has HLS ever changed it's application deadline?

luckystar84
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:00 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby luckystar84 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:36 pm

deleted
Last edited by luckystar84 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MikeSpivey
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 4:28 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:24 pm

Just tweeted some more compelling data. You guys will love these numbers.

User avatar
nothingtosee
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 12:08 am

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby nothingtosee » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:28 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Just tweeted some more compelling data. You guys will love these numbers.


Any hint as to how many are T14?

And it's been buried in the deluge, but Mike and Karen - thoughts on Harvard extending its deadline/accepting feb scores?

User avatar
MikeSpivey
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 4:28 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:29 pm

nothingtosee wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Just tweeted some more compelling data. You guys will love these numbers.


And it's been buried in the deluge, but Mike and Karen - thoughts on Harvard extending its deadline/accepting feb scores?


We aren't really going to speculate on this. I'm sure others will on TLS!

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:58 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Just tweeted some more compelling data. You guys will love these numbers.


And it's been buried in the deluge, but Mike and Karen - thoughts on Harvard extending its deadline/accepting feb scores?


We aren't really going to speculate on this. I'm sure others will on TLS!


Oh have we ever :)

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:00 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Just tweeted some more compelling data. You guys will love these numbers.


That's great news. I wish I knew the breakdown by tier :D

User avatar
mellow
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:07 pm

Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby mellow » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:03 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Just tweeted some more compelling data. You guys will love these numbers.


That's great news. I wish I knew the breakdown by tier :D

This. If all T14 were part of the 25 schools that showed an increase in applications (unlikely, but we don't know), then that would actually be pretty bad.


Return to “Free Help and Advice from Professionals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests