Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:11 pm

I wonder if there is a way to glean anything from who they are giving JS1's to?

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bouleversement
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bouleversement » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:59 pm

Mike & Karen,

How much taint does a previously-successful reapplicant have? I know you have cautioned against submitting the same application the second time but would you go so far as to say an addendum is necessary in order to explain, in so many words, why you hurt their yield last time around and why you won't necessarily do so again?

Thanks.

luckystar84
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby luckystar84 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:00 pm

deleted
Last edited by luckystar84 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bouleversement
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bouleversement » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:05 pm

It would be interesting to see how HLS's GPA floor differs for a 173-4 and a 175+ (or maybe a 176+ would be more telling).

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lastsamurai
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lastsamurai » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:37 am

Can someone explain why all this emphasis on 173?? 172 was also 99th percentile for the past 2 lsats...

Ls22, cotiger, lucky?

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:51 am

lastsamurai wrote:Can someone explain why all this emphasis on 173?? 172 was also 99th percentile for the past 2 lsats...

Ls22, cotiger, lucky?


I don't know about October, but 172 was not 99th percentile for June.

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drawstring
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drawstring » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:53 am

lastsamurai wrote:Can someone explain why all this emphasis on 173?? 172 was also 99th percentile for the past 2 lsats...

Ls22, cotiger, lucky?


The discussion seems HLS focused and 173 is their median.

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Clearly
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Clearly » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:16 am

lastsamurai wrote:Can someone explain why all this emphasis on 173?? 172 was also 99th percentile for the past 2 lsats...

Ls22, cotiger, lucky?

Percentiles aren't calculated by administration, they are a 5 year average and can actually change after the fact.

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lastsamurai
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lastsamurai » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:55 am

TheMostDangerousLG wrote:
lastsamurai wrote:Can someone explain why all this emphasis on 173?? 172 was also 99th percentile for the past 2 lsats...

Ls22, cotiger, lucky?


I don't know about October, but 172 was not 99th percentile for June.


Actually it was

luckystar84
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby luckystar84 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:06 pm

deleted
Last edited by luckystar84 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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lastsamurai
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lastsamurai » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 pm

Interesting...thanks lucky. I just don't understand all the fuss about LSAT medians. Are there any studies relating scores to employment outcomes? Or prospects at becoming a partner at a a BigLaw firm? I wonder how the SCOTUS justices did on their LSATs. It's just crazy that one point is taken so seriously in the admissions process.

Anyway enough of my ranting...back to the speculating

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:40 pm

lastsamurai wrote:Interesting...thanks lucky. I just don't understand all the fuss about LSAT medians. Are there any studies relating scores to employment outcomes? Or prospects at becoming a partner at a a BigLaw firm? I wonder how the SCOTUS justices did on their LSATs. It's just crazy that one point is taken so seriously in the admissions process.

Anyway enough of my ranting...back to the speculating


We can thank US News and the self-fulfilling prophecy / feedback loop it has created.

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IgosduIkana
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby IgosduIkana » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:40 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
lastsamurai wrote:Interesting...thanks lucky. I just don't understand all the fuss about LSAT medians. Are there any studies relating scores to employment outcomes? Or prospects at becoming a partner at a a BigLaw firm? I wonder how the SCOTUS justices did on their LSATs. It's just crazy that one point is taken so seriously in the admissions process.

Anyway enough of my ranting...back to the speculating


We can thank US News and the self-fulfilling prophecy / feedback loop it has created.


echo chamber, I believe

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:45 pm

LSAT score correlates positively with first year class rank and Bar passage.

They correlate negatively with networking skills.

None of this is to say why they are used or can get you hundreds of thousands of dollars of scholarship money, though. You guy pretty much covered that.

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outlawscr10
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby outlawscr10 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:08 pm

Mike--Do you think the pace of admissions decisions is being affected by the lack of bandwidth data?

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The-Specs
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby The-Specs » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:34 pm

outlawscr10 wrote:Mike--Do you think the pace of admissions decisions is being affected by the lack of bandwidth data?


There has been a lot discussion of the bandwidth ITT. What does it have to so with the admissions decisions?

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midwest17
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby midwest17 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:38 pm

The-Specs wrote:
outlawscr10 wrote:Mike--Do you think the pace of admissions decisions is being affected by the lack of bandwidth data?


There has been a lot discussion of the bandwidth ITT. What does it have to so with the admissions decisions?


Presumably it gives adcoms a way to predict how many applicants they'll get with various scores before all the applications are in.

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outlawscr10
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby outlawscr10 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:38 pm

The-Specs wrote:
outlawscr10 wrote:Mike--Do you think the pace of admissions decisions is being affected by the lack of bandwidth data?


There has been a lot discussion of the bandwidth ITT. What does it have to so with the admissions decisions?


The argument would be that adcomms are waiting to get a better picture of the applicant pool. Last year, the 16% drop in test takers wasn't representative of the drop in 170-180 scorers. I defer to Mike about the validity of such an argument.

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IgosduIkana
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby IgosduIkana » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:14 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:LSAT score correlates positively with first year class rank and Bar passage.

They correlate negatively with networking skills.

None of this is to say why they are used or can get you hundreds of thousands of dollars of scholarship money, though. You guy pretty much covered that.


lol. I wish that was true and that schools do actually care about networking ability. Then my app would shine!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:58 pm

outlawscr10 wrote:Mike--Do you think the pace of admissions decisions is being affected by the lack of bandwidth data?


I was pondering this the other day. There are a lot of factors you weigh when considering when to make/release admissions decisions and I could certainly see a situation where I school might say "let's hold a group until we see the most recent LSAC data by bandwidth.

Still, it is not a good idea for a blanket policy. The best thing to do in admissions is to admit slowly and cautiously early, but to admit the people you know you want. If I am Penn, for example, I would admit my 173+'s and 3.85+'s without waiting on the bandwidth data because that data won't matter.

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teampeeta
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby teampeeta » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:39 pm

Okay, I think I may have asked a variant of this question before, but I have more specifics now so I'll try again.

Mike and Karen,

I took the October LSAT and got a 173. My GPA is not where I wanted it to be (in the 3.5 range) and I was scoring higher on my practices than I did in October, so I decided to take the December test in hopes of getting above 175 and having a better chance at admission at top 3 schools. I just took the test today and, unfortunately, I'm not convinced it went that well.

I was wondering about the danger of having a score in the 170s and then cancelling the next time as opposed to the danger of having a score in the 170s and then doing worse on a retake. Like, if I got below 170 this time would that be difficult to explain/ be detrimental to my application at other schools? I've heard that most schools only care about your highest LSAT score so a lower retake won't matter, but I can't imagine that an admissions officer looks favorably on a retaker who does worse the second time.

I guess there is the possibility that I did better on this test than before- that was the whole point of retaking, so part of me wants to stick it out and wait for my score. The other part of me is terrified that I might've done worse and be incurring a lot of risk by not cancelling.

What would you advise someone in my position to do? Will schools look at me unfavorably if I cancel my score (because they'd assume that it must've been worse than before)? How bad is a lower retake? Will it knock me out or seriously lower my chances at HYS? I've heard that those schools, more than others, care about all LSAT scores and not just your highest. I am an URM, fwiw. I don't know whether that impacts anything either. I know there is a lower proportion of us who get 170+ than there are people who get those scores in the general population. Still, I can't imagine a lower retake score would be positive for anyone...
Last edited by teampeeta on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Baby_Got_Feuerbach
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Baby_Got_Feuerbach » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:40 pm

Two questions:

i) How much do admissions officers weigh an applicant's GPA relative to others who came from the same university? Take me as an example: GPA in the bottom quartile of students from my school who have registered with LSAC, showing that my poor grades freshman year really were not the result of deflation. -- Does this play a serious role? FWIW, my GPA registers beneath every law school's 25th.

ii) Will schools require an explanation regarding the 'F' on my transcript? There's an "excuse," albeit it not a good one, but one I've come to terms with. Basically, if asked, I can explain and show that lessons were learned (nothing too bad, just don't work off assumptions).

Thanks!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:35 am

Sourrudedude wrote:Mike, I love the PDF. Is there any chance you can throw the link on the front page for posterity's sake?


I finally did this. Idiot that I am it took me until now to realize you couldn't edit my post.

So the link is at the top of the first post of this thread.

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bouleversement
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby bouleversement » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:02 pm

Mike & Karen,

Would an applicant on the fringe at [insert top school here] have any advantage this cycle in applying 15 December instead of 15 January? I realize in years past the credited response was to submit as early as possible but might that advice not apply this year since adcoms are so uncertain about the final composition of the applicant pool? They will take a look at the applications they have received by the end of the window without so much regard as to when in the window they arrived? I am asking solely in regard to applicants on the borderline.

Thank you for your time.

ZVBXRPL
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby ZVBXRPL » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:24 am

Spivey Consulting,

Apparently an average of 7% of the Rutgers class were admitted with another type of standardized test score (GRE, GMAT, and MCAT [??]). This method of admissions wasn't reported to the ABA. Rutgers was fined $25K.

To what extent is this practice commonplace? Will this incident result in a marked drop in USNWR ranking?

I understand why Rutgers chose to admit students in this fashion but it seems quite embarrassing if you ask me.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... iving_LSAT


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