Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:27 pm

I shall now release the full extent of my social awkwardness on this thread:

How does one open an email to an admissions department? Hello? Dear Sir/Madam? Dear admissions officer? 'Sup sexyface? I have literally no idea.

californiauser
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby californiauser » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:28 pm

Can not writing a diversity statement/writing about race in a PS as a URM hurt an applicant?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:44 pm

pancho wrote:
IgosduIkana wrote:What is your opinion on people continuing to ask you questions that our search function does a absolutely fantastic job of answering?

:roll:


Probably that said person puts more stock in what Mike says than what the average TLS poster says (yourself included)? :wink:


Or that I even remember answering. Repeat questions don't seem to register on my radar, so I am happy to answer them.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:46 pm

californiauser wrote:Can not writing a diversity statement/writing about race in a PS as a URM hurt an applicant?


It might hurt you if the school is hyper-yield protecty. They could take it as "not really interested in us" ...

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:48 pm

TheMostDangerousLG wrote:I shall now release the full extent of my social awkwardness on this thread:

How does one open an email to an admissions department? Hello? Dear Sir/Madam? Dear admissions officer? 'Sup sexyface? I have literally no idea.


"Dear Office of Admissions"

...but as a professional matter, if ever possible always try to get the name of the person you are emailing. (I realize that can be almost impossible at time)

"Honey-toes" also works.

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:44 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:I shall now release the full extent of my social awkwardness on this thread:

How does one open an email to an admissions department? Hello? Dear Sir/Madam? Dear admissions officer? 'Sup sexyface? I have literally no idea.


"Dear Office of Admissions"

...but as a professional matter, if ever possible always try to get the name of the person you are emailing. (I realize that can be almost impossible at time)

"Honey-toes" also works.


Phew, I've been defaulting to honey-toes as a matter of form (obviously my school's career and development office was top-notch). Thanks for your help!

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Trig
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Trig » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:04 am

.
Last edited by Trig on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oceanmd
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby oceanmd » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:30 am

I am the one who asked a question about The Honor Society of Phi Kappa Phi. I actually did a search before posting a question, which resulted in many pages of different views on the subject ranging widely from "it is good to have it when looking for a job when you no longer include UG GPA on your resume", "it does not hurt or help in law school admission process" to " it is a complete waste of time and money." I was really interested in Mike's opinion on the subject and when I searched for it by a specific author, no entries were found. If somebody can provide a link to Mike's answer, I would greatly appreciate it.

ZVBXRPL
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby ZVBXRPL » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:10 pm

Mike and Karen,

I am curious to hear what both of you think.

Apparently an average of 7% of the Rutgers class were admitted with another type of standardized test score (GRE, GMAT, and MCAT [??]). This method of admissions wasn't reported to the ABA. Rutgers was fined $25K.

To what extent is this practice commonplace? Will this incident result in a marked drop in USNWR ranking?

I understand why Rutgers chose to admit students in this fashion but it seems quite embarrassing if you ask me.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... iving_LSAT

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:41 pm

melodygreenleaf wrote:First, thank you so much for your help on these forums! This is the one thread I read from beginning to end.

I have a question about updating schools on new LSAT scores. If I sent an application and told them not to hold for my Dec retake LSAT score, but still didn't get a decision before the score release, should I send them an update? Or should I wait until I'm waitlisted to send the update?

I don't want to seem like I'm going back on my word or however they might interpret this.

(btw, this is just for my safety schools. I followed the advice you gave me for most of my applications. :D)


They will automatically get the updated score when it becomes available, so you don't need to update them, but you might want to send them an update after the score comes in just to update your file and maintain communication.

Cheers,
KB

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:44 pm

drevo wrote:Bump for this:

My apps are done except for my second letter of rec which should be uploaded this weekend at the latest. For the schools requiring 2 letter of rec should I submit my apps now in order to get "in line" as soon as possible since most likely the schools won't even review it before the second letter is in? Or is there a disadvantage to submitting before LSAC has received and processed my second letter for whatever reason?

I'm 3.6x/175 so I want to capitalize on this potential mad dash for LSATs. I'm applying to all T14 plus USC/UCLA.


I see no disadvantage to submitting before the second letter gets there. Submit! And follow up to make sure the second letter gets in next week.

Cheers,
KB

drevo
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby drevo » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:48 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
drevo wrote:Bump for this:

My apps are done except for my second letter of rec which should be uploaded this weekend at the latest. For the schools requiring 2 letter of rec should I submit my apps now in order to get "in line" as soon as possible since most likely the schools won't even review it before the second letter is in? Or is there a disadvantage to submitting before LSAC has received and processed my second letter for whatever reason?

I'm 3.6x/175 so I want to capitalize on this potential mad dash for LSATs. I'm applying to all T14 plus USC/UCLA.


I see no disadvantage to submitting before the second letter gets there. Submit! And follow up to make sure the second letter gets in next week.

Cheers,
KB


Awesome! Thank you.

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lawschool22
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:53 pm

Karen,

What are your thoughts on Mike's assessment/reporting of the potential lowering of GPA floors in an effort to secure 173+ LSAT scores? Do you have any info that would support that this is taking place? Do you think this will extend even to top schools such as HLS? I am curious on your thoughts.

Thanks!

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:04 pm

oceanmd wrote:I am the one who asked a question about The Honor Society of Phi Kappa Phi. I actually did a search before posting a question, which resulted in many pages of different views on the subject ranging widely from "it is good to have it when looking for a job when you no longer include UG GPA on your resume", "it does not hurt or help in law school admission process" to " it is a complete waste of time and money." I was really interested in Mike's opinion on the subject and when I searched for it by a specific author, no entries were found. If somebody can provide a link to Mike's answer, I would greatly appreciate it.


I don't know what Mike may have posted on this subject, but we all know that for some honor societies, you just have to maintain a somewhat decent GPA and pay dues. I can see it as beneficial when you don't put a GPA on the resume to show that you didn't graduate with a 2.0, but in the law school admissions process, I'd say that it is neutral to a tiny feather on the scale. I think it's better than having nothing, but if you have a list of other awards, it might not be worth it.

Hope that is helpful!
Cheers,
KB

oceanmd
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby oceanmd » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:28 pm

Thank you, Karen. It is very helpful.

pancho
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby pancho » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:44 pm

Hi Karen,

Would it be possible to transfer into Harvard's JDMBA program after 1L at another school? Have you ever seen this done? Is it theoretically possible? Would 2L need to be deferred or would the first year at HBS need to be deferred? I haven't found an answer to this question anywhere let alone seen it posed, even in the context of another school. Would love your definitive response.

Also, I don't believe this question has ever been answered from someone who has actually worked inside the admissions office of either HLS or HBS: Are you able to see if an applicant at your program is also an applicant to the other program without the applicant's voluntary disclosure (i.e. when the applicant would potentially take one offer alone and thus seeks to avoid YP)?

Thank you very much for your time!

-Pancho

Instinctive
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby Instinctive » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:59 pm

pancho wrote:Hi Karen,

Would it be possible to transfer into Harvard's JDMBA program after 1L at another school? Have you ever seen this done? Is it theoretically possible? Would 2L need to be deferred or would the first year at HBS need to be deferred? I haven't found an answer to this question anywhere let alone seen it posed, even in the context of another school. Would love your definitive response.

Also, I don't believe this question has ever been answered from someone who has actually worked inside the admissions office of either HLS or HBS: Are you able to see if an applicant at your program is also an applicant to the other program without the applicant's voluntary disclosure (i.e. when the applicant would potentially take one offer alone and thus seeks to avoid YP)?

Thank you very much for your time!

-Pancho


I'm sure Karen will have a better answer, but I'll take a crack at this based on my cycle (JD/MBA applicant at basically the top 5 schools):

Julie Barton handles the law school's side of the JD/MBA program at Harvard, and in my meetings with her it seems that:
1. Yes, you can apply to HBS as a 1L and enter the program. Of the 10 or so JD/MBA students in each class, almost all of them start in the law school year 1 anyway. ETA: At Harvard specifically, it is a 4 year program. 1 year at HLS, then 1 year at HBS, then 2 years of classes at both is the standard.

2. They do not see if you have applied, but part of the application asks if you're applying for a joint degree, which one, and even for an essay about why the joint degree is what you are pursuing.

3. I was told in my HLS interview that they do not immediately communicate acceptances to each other, but that if I got in to one or the other program first, I should email or call to notify the other that I had been accepted (e.g. if I got into HLS tomorrow, I would tell HBS).

Hope that helps :D

pancho
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby pancho » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:35 pm

Instinctive wrote:
pancho wrote:Hi Karen,

Would it be possible to transfer into Harvard's JDMBA program after 1L at another school? Have you ever seen this done? Is it theoretically possible? Would 2L need to be deferred or would the first year at HBS need to be deferred? I haven't found an answer to this question anywhere let alone seen it posed, even in the context of another school. Would love your definitive response.

Also, I don't believe this question has ever been answered from someone who has actually worked inside the admissions office of either HLS or HBS: Are you able to see if an applicant at your program is also an applicant to the other program without the applicant's voluntary disclosure (i.e. when the applicant would potentially take one offer alone and thus seeks to avoid YP)?

Thank you very much for your time!

-Pancho


I'm sure Karen will have a better answer, but I'll take a crack at this based on my cycle (JD/MBA applicant at basically the top 5 schools):

Julie Barton handles the law school's side of the JD/MBA program at Harvard, and in my meetings with her it seems that:
1. Yes, you can apply to HBS as a 1L and enter the program. Of the 10 or so JD/MBA students in each class, almost all of them start in the law school year 1 anyway. ETA: At Harvard specifically, it is a 4 year program. 1 year at HLS, then 1 year at HBS, then 2 years of classes at both is the standard.

2. They do not see if you have applied, but part of the application asks if you're applying for a joint degree, which one, and even for an essay about why the joint degree is what you are pursuing.

3. I was told in my HLS interview that they do not immediately communicate acceptances to each other, but that if I got in to one or the other program first, I should email or call to notify the other that I had been accepted (e.g. if I got into HLS tomorrow, I would tell HBS).

Hope that helps :D


Thanks for the information!

The first part of my post actually pertained to transferring into HLS and simultaneously starting the joint degree with HBS. Another way of looking at it: If one does 1L at a different law school, is one forever precluded from the joint degree at Harvard?

The second part was more in regard to yield protection. If I would take HBS alone but HLS dings, I don't want the former to ding me as well (or vice versa). Perhaps not checking the box you mention is enough to avoid the YP (i.e. they realize I may take one program without the other)? Wouldn't it appear disingenuous to not check it and then reveal after obtaining separate acceptances that you really were interested in the joint degree all along.

Thanks again. Looking forward to Karen's take as well! (And you too Mike if you'd like. Not trying to exclude anyone here :wink: )

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:42 pm

I'm too worn out from emails and PMs about "what are my individual chances at this law school?"and panic emails about Penn to have an opinion on much anything else. Apologies in advance.

pancho
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby pancho » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:54 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:I'm too worn out from emails and PMs about "what are my individual chances at this law school?"and panic emails about Penn to have an opinion on much anything else. Apologies in advance.


Understood. Your advice is always welcome so please consider any question I may ask of Karen implicitly open to you as well. I just figured this particular topic was more in her bailiwick. Thanks. :D

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:08 pm

pancho wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:I'm too worn out from emails and PMs about "what are my individual chances at this law school?"and panic emails about Penn to have an opinion on much anything else. Apologies in advance.


Understood. Your advice is always welcome so please consider any question I may ask of Karen implicitly open to you as well. I just figured this particular topic was more in her bailiwick. Thanks. :D


Totally is. You folks can address either one of us in particular if you want -- it actually makes knowing which one should answer a bit more easy. I promise we won't take offense!

smallbrownbear
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby smallbrownbear » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:18 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:I'm too worn out from emails and PMs about "what are my individual chances at this law school?"and panic emails about Penn to have an opinion on much anything else. Apologies in advance.



what's going on with penn?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:26 pm

smallbrownbear wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:I'm too worn out from emails and PMs about "what are my individual chances at this law school?"and panic emails about Penn to have an opinion on much anything else. Apologies in advance.



what's going on with penn?


Its over at the Penn Applicant thread but someone on LSN claimed to have been denied already -- seems highly unlikely schools don't deny then admit in that order.
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:22 am

pancho wrote:
Instinctive wrote:
pancho wrote:Hi Karen,

Would it be possible to transfer into Harvard's JDMBA program after 1L at another school? Have you ever seen this done? Is it theoretically possible? Would 2L need to be deferred or would the first year at HBS need to be deferred? I haven't found an answer to this question anywhere let alone seen it posed, even in the context of another school. Would love your definitive response.

Also, I don't believe this question has ever been answered from someone who has actually worked inside the admissions office of either HLS or HBS: Are you able to see if an applicant at your program is also an applicant to the other program without the applicant's voluntary disclosure (i.e. when the applicant would potentially take one offer alone and thus seeks to avoid YP)?

Thank you very much for your time!

-Pancho


I'm sure Karen will have a better answer, but I'll take a crack at this based on my cycle (JD/MBA applicant at basically the top 5 schools):

Julie Barton handles the law school's side of the JD/MBA program at Harvard, and in my meetings with her it seems that:
1. Yes, you can apply to HBS as a 1L and enter the program. Of the 10 or so JD/MBA students in each class, almost all of them start in the law school year 1 anyway. ETA: At Harvard specifically, it is a 4 year program. 1 year at HLS, then 1 year at HBS, then 2 years of classes at both is the standard.

2. They do not see if you have applied, but part of the application asks if you're applying for a joint degree, which one, and even for an essay about why the joint degree is what you are pursuing.

3. I was told in my HLS interview that they do not immediately communicate acceptances to each other, but that if I got in to one or the other program first, I should email or call to notify the other that I had been accepted (e.g. if I got into HLS tomorrow, I would tell HBS).

Hope that helps :D


Thanks for the information!

The first part of my post actually pertained to transferring into HLS and simultaneously starting the joint degree with HBS. Another way of looking at it: If one does 1L at a different law school, is one forever precluded from the joint degree at Harvard?

The second part was more in regard to yield protection. If I would take HBS alone but HLS dings, I don't want the former to ding me as well (or vice versa). Perhaps not checking the box you mention is enough to avoid the YP (i.e. they realize I may take one program without the other)? Wouldn't it appear disingenuous to not check it and then reveal after obtaining separate acceptances that you really were interested in the joint degree all along.

Thanks again. Looking forward to Karen's take as well! (And you too Mike if you'd like. Not trying to exclude anyone here :wink: )


pancho -
Transferring into a joint program is tricky. Because most joint degrees allow you to use some credits at your non-JD degree toward your JD, plus the ABA requirement that you need to take a certain number of credits at the JD -degree-granting school, being a transfer and a joint degree student is difficult. It is not a good idea to plan this option from the beginning.
Julie Barton is the right person at HLS who coordinates the joint degree students, so she may be a good resource.

You should check the joint degree box and tell them that you are applying to both schools. There is no downside to it. HLS and HBS do not have access to each other's applicant databases, but Instinctive is right, they will eventually share that info but usually the applicant tells them first!

Cheers,
KB

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Q&A with former Admissions Officers

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:27 am

lawschool22 wrote:Karen,

What are your thoughts on Mike's assessment/reporting of the potential lowering of GPA floors in an effort to secure 173+ LSAT scores? Do you have any info that would support that this is taking place? Do you think this will extend even to top schools such as HLS? I am curious on your thoughts.

Thanks!


Given that HLS's apps were up last year when nearly everyone else is down, I would say that they are a bit more insulated from the reality of the sate of declining applications. It's a little early now to predict what's going to happen at the top. I think there might be a very, very minor downward shift, but it's not going to be a free-for-all at HLS :)

Cheers,
KB


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