Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

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What movie should we all watch at the Spivey Consulting Firm Retreat?

The Town
21
13%
Interstellar
63
40%
Cabin in the Woods
39
25%
Logan
35
22%
 
Total votes: 158

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urmlaw17
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby urmlaw17 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:39 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.


Let the freak out commence!

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urmlaw17
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby urmlaw17 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:39 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.


How competitive do you believe this cycle will be?

Which is a comparable year to the one we will face this time?

throwaway1919
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby throwaway1919 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:46 pm

urmlaw17 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.


Collective mass freak-out!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH! #whataremychances

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:59 pm

throwaway1919 wrote:
urmlaw17 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.


Collective mass freak-out!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH! #whataremychances


You know what's weird. In all my years of doing this, no one has ever asked me what their chances are :P

hbdash
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby hbdash » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:59 pm

Hi Mike and friends,

Quick question: I have a 168 LSAT score from the September LSAT, and although I just took the December LSAT I wasn't feeling well and don't believe that I did better.

I got waitlisted at NYU last year with a 167, so I doubt that a 168 will put me over the top. I have been PT'ing in the low-to-mid 170's and would love another shot at the LSAT in February. How firm is NYU in not accepting the February test? If I submit my application once I get my December score will my application/file update with my new score or will they completely disregard it?

Thank you!!

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ribbon
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby ribbon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:43 pm

Spives - do you think schools might increase their class sizes a bit to compensate for the plethora of qualified candidates that are pouring in this application cycle? I know it's probably early but...just wondering your thoughts.

LiveJustly390
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby LiveJustly390 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:50 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
throwaway1919 wrote:
urmlaw17 wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.


Collective mass freak-out!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH! #whataremychances


You know what's weird. In all my years of doing this, no one has ever asked me what their chances are :P


So with a 166/3.96 and 1.5 years of paralegal work experience at a top 10 Big law firm, what are my chances at breaking into the T14?

I just heard this week I got into Vanderbilt and WashU but I’m just curious about my shots for Duke, UVA, Northwestern, Georgetown, etc. I did submit “Why X school” supplemental essays for UVA, Duke, and Michigan to help with the soft elements of my materials but now I’m more nervous.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:30 am

ribbon wrote:Spives - do you think schools might increase their class sizes a bit to compensate for the plethora of qualified candidates that are pouring in this application cycle? I know it's probably early but...just wondering your thoughts.


We've been wondering this, because there are a lot of schools that have not been making money and relying on central university support. The rational market thing to do would be return a bit to larger class sizes. But the USNWR rankings drive seems to, at times, defy rationality. So...I guess schools will first go for jacking up medians and if they see they aren't likely to get to where they want they will course correct to increase class size.

dan9257
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby dan9257 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:37 am

Hi Spivey team!

I submitted by apps in October but decided to retake in February. I applied to some schools (Harvard, Columbia, Chicago, Penn) that are beyond reach with my current score (mid 160) so I was wondering if it is a good idea to hold my apps until the Feb exam score is out? Or should I rather just let them review my file with the current score and ask them to re-evaluate my app if they reject me before the Feb score is out?

Thank you so much! :)

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:57 am

Just to piggyback on the enrollment question more, I've been looking at some data and will try to get a blog up tomorrow at the latest (but likely tomorrow), that should have a calming effect. Yes this cycle will be more competitive than in a few years but it pales in comparison to the go-go years. And there's other reasons for the numbers we saw today to be inflated versus what they will look like as the cycle progresses.

In the meantime I'm getting blowup with all kinds of questions/inquires etc so sorry for slowness on here.

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rowdy
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby rowdy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:01 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Just to piggyback on the enrollment question more, I've been looking at some data and will try to get a blog up tomorrow at the latest (but likely tomorrow), that should have a calming effect. Yes this cycle will be more competitive than in a few years but it pales in comparison to the go-go years. And there's other reasons for the numbers we saw today to be inflated versus what they will look like as the cycle progresses.

In the meantime I'm getting blowup with all kinds of questions/inquires etc so sorry for slowness on here.


You should just put an auto-response on your e-mail this time of year that says "It either doesn't matter or it's out of your control."

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:15 pm

rowdy wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Just to piggyback on the enrollment question more, I've been looking at some data and will try to get a blog up tomorrow at the latest (but likely tomorrow), that should have a calming effect. Yes this cycle will be more competitive than in a few years but it pales in comparison to the go-go years. And there's other reasons for the numbers we saw today to be inflated versus what they will look like as the cycle progresses.

In the meantime I'm getting blowup with all kinds of questions/inquires etc so sorry for slowness on here.


You should just put an auto-response on your e-mail this time of year that says "It either doesn't matter or it's out of your control."


I do. But how to on Om's here Reddit, Twitter, and questions in this thread?

I could hire you to be my auto-office guy.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:16 pm

rowdy wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Just to piggyback on the enrollment question more, I've been looking at some data and will try to get a blog up tomorrow at the latest (but likely tomorrow), that should have a calming effect. Yes this cycle will be more competitive than in a few years but it pales in comparison to the go-go years. And there's other reasons for the numbers we saw today to be inflated versus what they will look like as the cycle progresses.

In the meantime I'm getting blowup with all kinds of questions/inquires etc so sorry for slowness on here.


You should just put an auto-response on your e-mail this time of year that says "It either doesn't matter or it's out of your control."


I do. But how to on Pm's here Reddit, Twitter, and questions in this thread?

I could hire you to be my auto-office guy.

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rowdy
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby rowdy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:35 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
rowdy wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Just to piggyback on the enrollment question more, I've been looking at some data and will try to get a blog up tomorrow at the latest (but likely tomorrow), that should have a calming effect. Yes this cycle will be more competitive than in a few years but it pales in comparison to the go-go years. And there's other reasons for the numbers we saw today to be inflated versus what they will look like as the cycle progresses.

In the meantime I'm getting blowup with all kinds of questions/inquires etc so sorry for slowness on here.


You should just put an auto-response on your e-mail this time of year that says "It either doesn't matter or it's out of your control."


I do. But how to on Pm's here Reddit, Twitter, and questions in this thread?

I could hire you to be my auto-office guy.


I think I'd have too much fun with it and scare all of your clients away. :mrgreen: They would get tired of me answering your phone with a Matt Foley voice pretending to be you.

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Platopus
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Platopus » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:55 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.


Any chance schools will be less worried about yield protecting because of this? MVP are the notorious yield protectors of the T-13 and I'm curious if a more competitive applicant pools makes them a little more willing to accept people that forgo writing Why X's? Assumption being there is a greater chance more applicants will get boxed out of HYS + money at CCN, making them more likely to matriculate at MVP

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heyduchess
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby heyduchess » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:18 pm

Hello, Spivey!

Can you tell us a little more about hold emails? I've seen a few pop up in different threads already and I know that some T14's send them to borderline candidates.

What do hold emails mean? What assumptions can we irrationally make about admissions when we receive a hold email? In what ways can we use these emails to further read into everything?

Forever Neurotic (and perhaps your future employee),
Duch. :shock:

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:32 pm

heyduchess wrote:Hello, Spivey!

Can you tell us a little more about hold emails? I've seen a few pop up in different threads already and I know that some T14's send them to borderline candidates.

What do hold emails mean? What assumptions can we irrationally make about admissions when we receive a hold email? In what ways can we use these emails to further read into everything?

Forever Neurotic (and perhaps your future employee),
Duch. :shock:


It can mean different things, but in general I'd think of it as "ahead of WL but not ready to be admitted yet" meaning most held applicants are admitted. I wouldn't be surprised with the first volume report that more of these held are going out at things slow down a bit as far as decision making.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:00 pm

Platopus wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.


Any chance schools will be less worried about yield protecting because of this? MVP are the notorious yield protectors of the T-13 and I'm curious if a more competitive applicant pools makes them a little more willing to accept people that forgo writing Why X's? Assumption being there is a greater chance more applicants will get boxed out of HYS + money at CCN, making them more likely to matriculate at MVP


You'd guess "yes" but change happens slowly. In the go-go years of admissions no one really cared about YP because we were just aways upping our LSAT and GPA. Ahh, those were the days.

When applications and numbers started dropping, schools started focusing on YP -- which keep in mind is just a component of selectivity, which is just very small part of rankings. So you'd think logically schools may now focus more on LSAT even at the loss of YP at the margins. But because if the slow steady change toward more YP, my best guess is that will still be a factor for many law schools. Great questions though I had to think on this one a bit!

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Platopus
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Platopus » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:32 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
You'd guess "yes" but change happens slowly. In the go-go years of admissions no one really cared about YP because we were just aways upping our LSAT and GPA. Ahh, those were the days.

When applications and numbers started dropping, schools started focusing on YP -- which keep in mind is just a component of selectivity, which is just very small part of rankings. So you'd think logically schools may now focus more on LSAT even at the loss of YP at the margins. But because if the slow steady change toward more YP, my best guess is that will still be a factor for many law schools. Great questions though I had to think on this one a bit!


Much appreciated, thanks for the insight!

etramak
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby etramak » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:25 am

Platopus wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
You'd guess "yes" but change happens slowly. In the go-go years of admissions no one really cared about YP because we were just aways upping our LSAT and GPA. Ahh, those were the days.

When applications and numbers started dropping, schools started focusing on YP -- which keep in mind is just a component of selectivity, which is just very small part of rankings. So you'd think logically schools may now focus more on LSAT even at the loss of YP at the margins. But because if the slow steady change toward more YP, my best guess is that will still be a factor for many law schools. Great questions though I had to think on this one a bit!


Much appreciated, thanks for the insight!

Which dates are the gogo years? I'm trying to figure out the best year on lsn to compare to this cycle, if not last year.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:55 am

etramak wrote:
Platopus wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
You'd guess "yes" but change happens slowly. In the go-go years of admissions no one really cared about YP because we were just aways upping our LSAT and GPA. Ahh, those were the days.

When applications and numbers started dropping, schools started focusing on YP -- which keep in mind is just a component of selectivity, which is just very small part of rankings. So you'd think logically schools may now focus more on LSAT even at the loss of YP at the margins. But because if the slow steady change toward more YP, my best guess is that will still be a factor for many law schools. Great questions though I had to think on this one a bit!


Much appreciated, thanks for the insight!

Which dates are the gogo years? I'm trying to figure out the best year on lsn to compare to this cycle, if not last year.


Essentially 2000 to 2008

https://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data ... ministered

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wmbuff
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby wmbuff » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:50 am

This is probably fairly basic, but I'd like to be sure. When a school invites you onto the waitlist, and their waitlist form includes a large block for listing your reasons for continued interest in the school, is that block supposed to be the LOCI, or should one be submitted separately?

etramak
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby etramak » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:15 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
etramak wrote:
Platopus wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
You'd guess "yes" but change happens slowly. In the go-go years of admissions no one really cared about YP because we were just aways upping our LSAT and GPA. Ahh, those were the days.

When applications and numbers started dropping, schools started focusing on YP -- which keep in mind is just a component of selectivity, which is just very small part of rankings. So you'd think logically schools may now focus more on LSAT even at the loss of YP at the margins. But because if the slow steady change toward more YP, my best guess is that will still be a factor for many law schools. Great questions though I had to think on this one a bit!


Much appreciated, thanks for the insight!

Which dates are the gogo years? I'm trying to figure out the best year on lsn to compare to this cycle, if not last year.


Essentially 2000 to 2008

https://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data ... ministered


Never knew about that link. Thanks a million

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:59 am

wmbuff wrote:This is probably fairly basic, but I'd like to be sure. When a school invites you onto the waitlist, and their waitlist form includes a large block for listing your reasons for continued interest in the school, is that block supposed to be the LOCI, or should one be submitted separately?


Yes, although you could also just write: please see emailed (or attached) Letter of Continued Interest if you want that one to look more professional.


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