Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

What movie should we all watch at the Spivey Consulting Firm Retreat?

The Town
21
13%
Interstellar
63
40%
Cabin in the Woods
39
25%
Logan
35
22%
 
Total votes: 158

limeseltzer
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby limeseltzer » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:25 pm

Hello! I have a timing question - when do merit scholarships start to come out from schools? I've gotten two T14 acceptances this week, and I'm not quite sure when schools start to give out merit aid information. For some schools does it come in their admissions packets (or phone calls), or do most wait until the Spring? I'm sure the answer is "it depends," but I'm curious if there's any standard for schools like Georgetown, Berkeley, Penn Law, NYU, Columbia, etc.

Jm0987
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Jm0987 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:45 am

Hi Spivey!

Thanks for taking the time to read and answer our questions! I have spoken to a few individuals in admissions at the schools that I am interested in-- and they've stated that they very much prefer that applicants use an addendum to explain away any grades/gaps related to their GPA. My question is -- how personal is too personal in terms of an explanation of what may have been going on at the time? I don't want it to read as being deeply emotional/personal.I would however like to have a convincing addendum that is effective in its purpose. Without going into too much detail, a parent of mine was facing an investigation/legal trouble towards the start of my undergraduate studies. I certainly grew up during this time and found myself having mature overnight and figure out how to balance family/educational responsibilities around the age of 19/20. There is a definite upward trend in my grades and it's clear that after the first rocky year my grades were usually stable at As/Bs. But of course my LSAC GPA is impacted and is around a 3.0 due to the terrible GPA I had in my first year. I apologize about this post being longer than it maybe needs to be but I wanted to provide you with any information that might be relevant to the feedback you can provide.

Thanks again.

AJordan
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby AJordan » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:05 pm

Spivey, you do such a great job here that I'm almost going to feel bad about this fantasy football beating I'm about to put on you. Almost.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:28 pm

AJordan wrote:Spivey, you do such a great job here that I'm almost going to feel bad about this fantasy football beating I'm about to put on you. Almost.


You shouldn't. I've won that league like probably every year at least. I'll probably win it next year when you are reading 300 pages of torts a night :)

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rowdy
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby rowdy » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:51 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
AJordan wrote:Spivey, you do such a great job here that I'm almost going to feel bad about this fantasy football beating I'm about to put on you. Almost.


You shouldn't. I've won that league like probably every year at least. I'll probably win it next year when you are reading 300 pages of torts a night :)


Smh I should have made it a 6 team playoff not a 4 and you might be in

nixbaby
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby nixbaby » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:28 pm

spivey!

what are odds for admission once someone gets a JS1? ive seen so many conflicting things.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:09 pm

nixbaby wrote:spivey!

what are odds for admission once someone gets a JS1? ive seen so many conflicting things.


I think one of my business partners told me around 75%. And i think I have like 3 from there, so I've had that in my head. But this is going to be a tougher cycle , so I would note that could go down.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:11 pm

Jm0987 wrote:Hi Spivey!

Thanks for taking the time to read and answer our questions! I have spoken to a few individuals in admissions at the schools that I am interested in-- and they've stated that they very much prefer that applicants use an addendum to explain away any grades/gaps related to their GPA. My question is -- how personal is too personal in terms of an explanation of what may have been going on at the time? I don't want it to read as being deeply emotional/personal.I would however like to have a convincing addendum that is effective in its purpose. Without going into too much detail, a parent of mine was facing an investigation/legal trouble towards the start of my undergraduate studies. I certainly grew up during this time and found myself having mature overnight and figure out how to balance family/educational responsibilities around the age of 19/20. There is a definite upward trend in my grades and it's clear that after the first rocky year my grades were usually stable at As/Bs. But of course my LSAC GPA is impacted and is around a 3.0 due to the terrible GPA I had in my first year. I apologize about this post being longer than it maybe needs to be but I wanted to provide you with any information that might be relevant to the feedback you can provide.

Thanks again.


Yes, if you have real reasons for a lower GPA than you believe you could have attained without those personal circumstances I would 100% explain them. The only common mistake I see here is people will start with one personal reasons and then tack on like 4 other, different reasons, and it gets very red flag very quickly. But sounds like you have one genuine extenuating factor, I'd explain.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:15 pm

nixbaby wrote:spivey!

what are odds for admission once someone gets a JS1? ive seen so many conflicting things.


Since you need an interview in order to be admitted to HLS, an interview is certainly a good indication of the strength of your application. However, they don't admit everyone who is interviewed. The odds of being admitted post interview are highly likely to be over 60% but that varies from year to year, as Mike indicated.
It is also important to know that the interview is just part of the evaluation, so if someone is not admitted after the interview, it doesn't necessarily mean that the interview was bad. (tho possible, it is more likely that the decision was based on the application as a whole).

KB

nixbaby
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby nixbaby » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:40 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
nixbaby wrote:spivey!

what are odds for admission once someone gets a JS1? ive seen so many conflicting things.


Since you need an interview in order to be admitted to HLS, an interview is certainly a good indication of the strength of your application. However, they don't admit everyone who is interviewed. The odds of being admitted post interview are highly likely to be over 60% but that varies from year to year, as Mike indicated.
It is also important to know that the interview is just part of the evaluation, so if someone is not admitted after the interview, it doesn't necessarily mean that the interview was bad. (tho possible, it is more likely that the decision was based on the application as a whole).

KB


Is it a better sign if you got one in the first wave of JS1s or is it just chronological? Thanks for prompt reply u guys are great.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:54 pm

nixbaby wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
nixbaby wrote:spivey!

what are odds for admission once someone gets a JS1? ive seen so many conflicting things.


Since you need an interview in order to be admitted to HLS, an interview is certainly a good indication of the strength of your application. However, they don't admit everyone who is interviewed. The odds of being admitted post interview are highly likely to be over 60% but that varies from year to year, as Mike indicated.
It is also important to know that the interview is just part of the evaluation, so if someone is not admitted after the interview, it doesn't necessarily mean that the interview was bad. (tho possible, it is more likely that the decision was based on the application as a whole).

KB


Is it a better sign if you got one in the first wave of JS1s or is it just chronological? Thanks for prompt reply u guys are great.


That first wave is mostly chronological and whose applications have been reviewed by the time invitations go out. But stronger applicants tend to apply early, so the first group of interview invites is naturally strong and may lead to a higher admit rate.
I 100% understand the desire to read the tea leaves here, but I can't stress enough how much the substance of your application and the interview itself matter in this equation. The uncertainty should be over in the coming weeks!

KB

nixbaby
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby nixbaby » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:32 pm

KarenButtenbaum wrote:
nixbaby wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:
nixbaby wrote:spivey!

what are odds for admission once someone gets a JS1? ive seen so many conflicting things.


Since you need an interview in order to be admitted to HLS, an interview is certainly a good indication of the strength of your application. However, they don't admit everyone who is interviewed. The odds of being admitted post interview are highly likely to be over 60% but that varies from year to year, as Mike indicated.
It is also important to know that the interview is just part of the evaluation, so if someone is not admitted after the interview, it doesn't necessarily mean that the interview was bad. (tho possible, it is more likely that the decision was based on the application as a whole).

KB


Is it a better sign if you got one in the first wave of JS1s or is it just chronological? Thanks for prompt reply u guys are great.


That first wave is mostly chronological and whose applications have been reviewed by the time invitations go out. But stronger applicants tend to apply early, so the first group of interview invites is naturally strong and may lead to a higher admit rate.
I 100% understand the desire to read the tea leaves here, but I can't stress enough how much the substance of your application and the interview itself matter in this equation. The uncertainty should be over in the coming weeks!

KB


that makes perfect sense. i just LOVE TEA LEAVES.

ShepherdJoo
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby ShepherdJoo » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:20 am

Hello KarenButtenbaum and MikeSpivey,

Thank you both for your replies to my previous question.

But now I have a follow-up burning urgent question... any advice would be so greatly appreciated.

I just recently took the December LSAT hoping that I'd score even a couple points higher than my September LSAT (163), but right now I'm feeling very uncertain as the test didn't go so well. I'm facing a major dilemma right now. In the event my December LSAT score came out to be lower than my previous September, would it be better to cancel than keep it? The problem is, if I cancel it, it will be my THIRD cancellation on my record and I'm not sure how that would look to Adcoms. Now if I keep it, I'm not sure how that would look to Adcoms either especially given that now my previous September LSAT might look like a fluke(?) to the target schools where my September LSAT score would have fallen on their 50th percentile. What do you advise I should do??

Thank you so much...

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:06 am

ShepherdJoo wrote:Hello KarenButtenbaum and MikeSpivey,

Thank you both for your replies to my previous question.

But now I have a follow-up burning urgent question... any advice would be so greatly appreciated.

I just recently took the December LSAT hoping that I'd score even a couple points higher than my September LSAT (163), but right now I'm feeling very uncertain as the test didn't go so well. I'm facing a major dilemma right now. In the event my December LSAT score came out to be lower than my previous September, would it be better to cancel than keep it? The problem is, if I cancel it, it will be my THIRD cancellation on my record and I'm not sure how that would look to Adcoms. Now if I keep it, I'm not sure how that would look to Adcoms either especially given that now my previous September LSAT might look like a fluke(?) to the target schools where my September LSAT score would have fallen on their 50th percentile. What do you advise I should do??

Thank you so much...


We can't give you specific advice like this. We don't now of you had mana from above and got a 180, or bombed it. What I can say is that in general cancellations don't do you much good. SINCE SCHOOLS ONLY CARE ABOUT THE HIGHEST SCORE, there isn't much reason to cancel. It would be like me giving someone $100 to bet on blackjack to see if they could get 21 and saying "if you don't I'll just give you another $100" and them saying -- naw, I'm only going to try once." See what Rigo says in the last post in this thread. It tends to be how I think of this question:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=283902

Also maybe this blog:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/help-i ... 7-edition/

Also, I personally would start getting worried about 3 cancellations, unless you had an understandable addendum toward that end. As I've had to say on here (apologies for having to say this), my generation worries more about how neurotic your generation is, than just about anything else. And my generation makes almost all the admissions decisions these days -- so there's that. GL!
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ShepherdJoo
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby ShepherdJoo » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:44 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
ShepherdJoo wrote:Hello KarenButtenbaum and MikeSpivey,

Thank you both for your replies to my previous question.

But now I have a follow-up burning urgent question... any advice would be so greatly appreciated.

I just recently took the December LSAT hoping that I'd score even a couple points higher than my September LSAT (163), but right now I'm feeling very uncertain as the test didn't go so well. I'm facing a major dilemma right now. In the event my December LSAT score came out to be lower than my previous September, would it be better to cancel than keep it? The problem is, if I cancel it, it will be my THIRD cancellation on my record and I'm not sure how that would look to Adcoms. Now if I keep it, I'm not sure how that would look to Adcoms either especially given that now my previous September LSAT might look like a fluke(?) to the target schools where my September LSAT score would have fallen on their 50th percentile. What do you advise I should do??

Thank you so much...


We can't give you specific advice like this. We don't now of you had mana from above and got a 180, or bombed it. What I can say is that in general cancellations don't do you much good. SINCE SCHOOLS ONLY CARE ABOUT THE HIGHEST SCORE, there isn't much reason to cancel. It would be like me giving someone $100 to black blackjack to see if they could get 21 and saying "if you don't I'll just give you another $100" and therm saying -- naw, I'm only going to try once." See what Rigo says in the last post in this thread. It tends to be how I think of this question:

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 6&t=283902

Also maybe this blog:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/help-i ... 7-edition/

Also, I personally would start getting worried about 3 cancellations, unless you had an understandable addendum toward that end. As I've had to say on here (apologies for having to say this), my generation worries more about how neurotic your generation is, than just about anything else. And my generation makes almost all the admissions decisions these days -- so there's that. GL!


Thank you so much for your reply. Apologies if I came across as neurotic in my post, but I just want to make sure I understand clearly: is it true that a decrease on the subsequent LSAT score doesn't cancel out the previously high score? I'm not trying to cancel just for the sake of cancelling, but in the event my score discrepancy is so huge downwards, wouldn't that also warrant an addendum regardless of whether I cancel or not? I'm not basing this upon a feeling, but on the objective fact of having guessed much of an entirety of a section.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:56 pm

Hey all - I just got off the phone with Mike and he mentioned that he was getting a lot of private messages today. He is currently traveling and unable to respond to all of them. He will do his best, but it might take a while. Thanks for understanding!
KB

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:28 pm

ShepherdJoo wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
ShepherdJoo wrote:Hello KarenButtenbaum and MikeSpivey,

Thank you both for your replies to my previous question.

But now I have a follow-up burning urgent question... any advice would be so greatly appreciated.

I just recently took the December LSAT hoping that I'd score even a couple points higher than my September LSAT (163), but right now I'm feeling very uncertain as the test didn't go so well. I'm facing a major dilemma right now. In the event my December LSAT score came out to be lower than my previous September, would it be better to cancel than keep it? The problem is, if I cancel it, it will be my THIRD cancellation on my record and I'm not sure how that would look to Adcoms. Now if I keep it, I'm not sure how that would look to Adcoms either especially given that now my previous September LSAT might look like a fluke(?) to the target schools where my September LSAT score would have fallen on their 50th percentile. What do you advise I should do??

Thank you so much...


We can't give you specific advice like this. We don't now of you had mana from above and got a 180, or bombed it. What I can say is that in general cancellations don't do you much good. SINCE SCHOOLS ONLY CARE ABOUT THE HIGHEST SCORE, there isn't much reason to cancel. It would be like me giving someone $100 to black blackjack to see if they could get 21 and saying "if you don't I'll just give you another $100" and therm saying -- naw, I'm only going to try once." See what Rigo says in the last post in this thread. It tends to be how I think of this question:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=283902

Also maybe this blog:

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/help-i ... 7-edition/

Also, I personally would start getting worried about 3 cancellations, unless you had an understandable addendum toward that end. As I've had to say on here (apologies for having to say this), my generation worries more about how neurotic your generation is, than just about anything else. And my generation makes almost all the admissions decisions these days -- so there's that. GL!


Thank you so much for your reply. Apologies if I came across as neurotic in my post, but I just want to make sure I understand clearly: is it true that a decrease on the subsequent LSAT score doesn't cancel out the previously high score? I'm not trying to cancel just for the sake of cancelling, but in the event my score discrepancy is so huge downwards, wouldn't that also warrant an addendum regardless of whether I cancel or not? I'm not basing this upon a feeling, but on the objective fact of having guessed much of an entirety of a section.


Dude.

RSolano
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby RSolano » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:42 pm

Hi spivey team!

I applied to Columbia last week and their app asks that if you've been out of school for a few years that you submit an addendum if you cannot provide one professional LOR (because it would jeopardize your employment).

I submitted two academic letters but forgot to write the addendum, is it worth contacting them to submit it now or best to just let it be?

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions, it's appreciated! Best :)
Last edited by RSolano on Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:43 pm

RSolano wrote:Hi spivey team!

I applied to Columbia last week and their app asks that if you've been out of school for a few years that you submit an addendum if you cannot provide one professional LOR (because it would jeopardise your employment).

I submitted two academic letters but forgot to write the addendum, is it worth contacting them to submit it now or best to just let it be?

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions, it's appreciated! Best :)


I'd probably just submit the addendum to the general admissions email and ask that they update your file. No biggie!

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slurp
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby slurp » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:43 pm

:lol:

RSolano
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby RSolano » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:47 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
RSolano wrote:Hi spivey team!

I applied to Columbia last week and their app asks that if you've been out of school for a few years that you submit an addendum if you cannot provide one professional LOR (because it would jeopardise your employment).

I submitted two academic letters but forgot to write the addendum, is it worth contacting them to submit it now or best to just let it be?

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions, it's appreciated! Best :)


I'd probably just submit the addendum to the general admissions email and ask that they update your file. No biggie!



Will do, take care!

saraduboi1995
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby saraduboi1995 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:04 pm

Hi Spivey Team,
I'm applying next year and by the time I send my apps. I would have been two years out of university.
I spent all of this year traveling and will likely continue for most of next year. In the case of Columbia where they ask for an addendum if one does not have a professional LOR and has spent a few years out of school..how is traveling considered? (is it frowned upon or not seen as valuable as working etc.)

Thank you :)

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:06 pm

Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.

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Pozzo
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Pozzo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:20 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.

I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.

Wowzas.

rideagain
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby rideagain » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:24 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Okay PSA.
I am about to blog some data, and you people are going to hate it (don't shoot the messenger, I guess technically if you are going to be mad at anyone be made at yourselves). LSAT scores are way up at just about every bandwidth. Law schools are going to try to raise their medians and this will also now likely cause a good number to slow down in the decision process. I don't have the blog up yet because we have to code it into our platform and it takes awhile -- I will tweet the second I do.

My point though is this -- we get so many emails and messages about "am I late in applying? Can I take the feb LSAT? I have 1 typo in my resume am I doomed?" None of that stuff really matters, but this data does. Because it means the applicant pool is much more competitive than any of us expected. Sorry to be the one to share that, but it is valuable to know for sure.
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