Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Special forum where professionals are encouraged to help law school applicants, students, and graduates.

What movie should we all watch at the Spivey Consulting Firm Retreat?

The Town
21
14%
Interstellar
60
40%
Cabin in the Woods
37
25%
Logan
31
21%
 
Total votes: 149

etramak
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby etramak » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:01 am

MikeSpivey wrote:
KarenButtenbaum wrote:As a general rule of thumb, the high score is the one that really matters, because although there aren't many guarantees in admissions, it is a certainty that the school will report the high score to the ABA. Schools will vary on their language on how they describe looking at multiple tests, but it is important to know that they will all be able to see how many times you took it and the scores (or absences or cancelled scores) associated with each test. (NO, they don't see registrations for tests, so don't fret if you registered for a test and changed it).
So, they are going to look at everything they see on the LSAC report. When an admissions officer starts to see 4 or more tests, they start to wonder what might be happening. Taking the test 5 times will likely require an explanation at most schools, and it may start to raise some questions about the applicant. Again, they will see everything, so there are many variables that will come into play (were there any cancels? how long ago were the other tests? are they all around the same score?)

Don't panic. It is not impossible to be admitted somewhere with 5 LSAT takes, but it is not ideal and not recommended to start off with that plan. My advice would be to only take it when you feel the most prepared for it to get your best possible score.

KB


I'd add that even a point or two higher likely would be worth a 4th take -- it could conceptually open more doors at some higher ranked schools and/or get you more $$$ at other schools. You'd have to explain why 4 takes, but "I wanted to have to best chance to get into your beloved school" is a good starting point. But don't use "beloved"
Last edited by etramak on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:34 pm

For variety of reasons, we don't and can't give much specific school advice on here. Maybe one is the same reason you don't want to be quoted. Lot's on eyes on TLS!

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Platopus
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Platopus » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Hi Spivey & Co,

Very generic question here regarding the employment section on various schools applications. The application requests ALL employment, and includes a space to list start/end dates. I have a rough idea of every job I've held, but I can't remember or locate records on start/end dates for some of them. Is this imperative to have 100% absolutely correct? Potential C&F issues if I am off on the dates by a bit?

Appreciate it in advance if you are able to answer. If not, thanks anyway - you gals/guys are a gem of wisdom.

Thanks,
Platopus

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:17 pm

Platopus wrote:Hi Spivey & Co,

Very generic question here regarding the employment section on various schools applications. The application requests ALL employment, and includes a space to list start/end dates. I have a rough idea of every job I've held, but I can't remember or locate records on start/end dates for some of them. Is this imperative to have 100% absolutely correct? Potential C&F issues if I am off on the dates by a bit?

Appreciate it in advance if you are able to answer. If not, thanks anyway - you gals/guys are a gem of wisdom.

Thanks,
Platopus


I've never seen it become a C&F issue in the past. and I doubt many schools are scrutinizing your dates. More likely, based on my experience at least, they are looking for big gaps in employment or really short but also unexplainable (e.g career type or military job that ends after 2 months) periods. If you guesstimate to the best of your ability or say something like "Summer 2015" it would strike me as most unusual if they wanted the precise time.
Last edited by MikeSpivey on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Platopus
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Platopus » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:28 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
I've never seen it become a C&F issue in the past. and I doubt many schools are scrutinizing your dates. More likely, based on my experience at least, they are looking for big gaps in enjoyment or really short but also unexplainable (e.g career type or military job that ends after 2 months) periods. If you guesstimate to the best of your ability or say something like "Summer 2015" it would strike me as most unusual if they wanted the precise time.


Thanks! Exactly the answer I was hoping for. You're the best, seriously. Thanks a bunch.

hj999
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby hj999 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:57 pm

Hi Spivey Group!

I'm applying this upcoming cycle with a 3.95+. However, I've taken the LSAT 4 times.

The first time was when I was a sophomore in college and I wanted to test the waters after studying for less than a month. (stupid idea, I know) I cancelled that score, and then studied for about 3 months during the summer before junior year and got a 168. I decided to try one last time, and retook in senior year (June 2016). I couldn't concentrate (personal issues) and ended up cancelling again. I was going to apply with the 168 but something in me told me I could do better, so I geared up for June 2017 and got a 173.

I'm hoping for HYS and/or hefty scholarships from the T13. Will the amount of takes be a major impediment?

Tldr; Took LSAT 4 times, C, 168, C, 173. 3.95+ undergrad GPA, hoping for HYS. What should I expect during my cycle? (Please let me know if this question is too specific and I should call you to discuss your services.)

TYIA

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:09 pm

hj999 wrote:Hi Spivey Group!

I'm applying this upcoming cycle with a 3.95+. However, I've taken the LSAT 4 times.

The first time was when I was a sophomore in college and I wanted to test the waters after studying for less than a month. (stupid idea, I know) I cancelled that score, and then studied for about 3 months during the summer before junior year and got a 168. I decided to try one last time, and retook in senior year (June 2016). I couldn't concentrate (personal issues) and ended up cancelling again. I was going to apply with the 168 but something in me told me I could do better, so I geared up for June 2017 and got a 173.

I'm hoping for HYS and/or hefty scholarships from the T13. Will the amount of takes be a major impediment?

Tldr; Took LSAT 4 times, C, 168, C, 173. 3.95+ undergrad GPA, hoping for HYS. What should I expect during my cycle? (Please let me know if this question is too specific and I should call you to discuss your services.)

TYIA


I'll try to do a blog on this if I can carve out some time. Basically, it doesn't look bad if you are a hard worker who can signal is a relaxed manner that you are really interested in a specific school and hence the multiple takes.

If you come across as an obsessive, neurotic person (which is how my generation, i.e. Adcoms, views your generation) then it can look bad for sure.

But maybe I can blog more. I hope the helps,

Mike

P.S. When I was in my 20's the generations above us viewed us as lackluster, so we all get a label

dan9257
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby dan9257 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:48 am

Hi Spivey Team,

If I am writing a diversity statement as an optional essay, should I write "why x" essay in addition to the diversity statement, when a school offers both diversity and why x school topics as optional essay topics? For example, the optional essay topics of Duke have both diversity and why Duke topics.

Thank you so much!

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heyduchess
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby heyduchess » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:24 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
If you come across as an obsessive, neurotic person (which is how my generation, i.e. Adcoms, views your generation) then it can look bad for sure.

But maybe I can blog more. I hope the helps,

Mike

P.S. When I was in my 20's the generations above us viewed us as lackluster, so we all get a label



FWIW: I'll take obsessive and neurotic over lazy and entitled any day.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:30 pm

heyduchess wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:
If you come across as an obsessive, neurotic person (which is how my generation, i.e. Adcoms, views your generation) then it can look bad for sure.

But maybe I can blog more. I hope the helps,

Mike

P.S. When I was in my 20's the generations above us viewed us as lackluster, so we all get a label



FWIW: I'll take obsessive and neurotic over lazy and entitled any day.


me too :)

makingthemove
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby makingthemove » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:10 pm

sdavis wrote: Another good suggestion! It does seem that most info out there is geared toward the K-JD crowd or 1-2 years out. Will add your idea to our possibilities, thanks vtdelt!

Following-up on this: was a post with materials targeted to teh old written?

rideagain
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby rideagain » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:05 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
hj999 wrote:Hi Spivey Group!

I'm applying this upcoming cycle with a 3.95+. However, I've taken the LSAT 4 times.

The first time was when I was a sophomore in college and I wanted to test the waters after studying for less than a month. (stupid idea, I know) I cancelled that score, and then studied for about 3 months during the summer before junior year and got a 168. I decided to try one last time, and retook in senior year (June 2016). I couldn't concentrate (personal issues) and ended up cancelling again. I was going to apply with the 168 but something in me told me I could do better, so I geared up for June 2017 and got a 173.

I'm hoping for HYS and/or hefty scholarships from the T13. Will the amount of takes be a major impediment?

Tldr; Took LSAT 4 times, C, 168, C, 173. 3.95+ undergrad GPA, hoping for HYS. What should I expect during my cycle? (Please let me know if this question is too specific and I should call you to discuss your services.)

TYIA


I'll try to do a blog on this if I can carve out some time. Basically, it doesn't look bad if you are a hard worker who can signal is a relaxed manner that you are really interested in a specific school and hence the multiple takes.

If you come across as an obsessive, neurotic person (which is how my generation, i.e. Adcoms, views your generation) then it can look bad for sure.

But maybe I can blog more. I hope the helps,

Mike

P.S. When I was in my 20's the generations above us viewed us as lackluster, so we all get a label

aka include pictures of me playing with puppies and stuff in all apps so I come off as a reasonable human being and not the kind of neurotic loon who would browse a website called Top Law Schools and take the LSAT 4 times just because not cracking 170 keeps me up at night

hbdash
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby hbdash » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:18 pm

Hi Spivey and friends,

I applied last cycle and am now reapplying to the same schools (with a new, higher LSAT score). Do I need to alter my personal statement/write a new one entirely? And if it's the former, how drastically should I edit it? (For reference, I am applying to schools in the T10, if that affects anything)

Thank you so much!!

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Hi everyone. This is our peak time of year, says Mr. Obvious, so sorry for slowness. I am in the process of getting two new people onboard, after which I should have more time to help. I'm also sitting on two wonderful blogs, but we have been so over capacity I was afraid to publish and have more people we couldn't handle. We will soon be under capacity and I will publish away! One is from a reverse splitter who got admitted to multiple top 14 schools-- his step by step process of how we did it.

sdavis
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby sdavis » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:08 pm

makingthemove wrote:
sdavis wrote: Another good suggestion! It does seem that most info out there is geared toward the K-JD crowd or 1-2 years out. Will add your idea to our possibilities, thanks vtdelt!

Following-up on this: was a post with materials targeted to teh old written?

Not yet, but it's still on our list of possible topics. Thanks for checking!

makingthemove
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby makingthemove » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:15 pm

sdavis wrote:Not yet, but it's still on our list of possible topics. Thanks for checking!


Thanks! There isn't a lot of info for teh old, but I guess that's expected since there's likely no solid data on the performance...

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twiix
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby twiix » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:16 am

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Last edited by twiix on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SilverSurfer2020
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby SilverSurfer2020 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:21 pm

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Last edited by SilverSurfer2020 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KarenButtenbaum
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby KarenButtenbaum » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:20 pm

SilverSurfer2020 wrote:Spivey team,

lost a family member and am having a really difficult time at school. Do people ever drop out before 1l grades, retake and apply to other schools? If so, is there a significant adverse effect on your chances?


I'm so sorry to hear this. First, talk to your dean of students if you haven't already. You may need a break from school regardless of the possible options when you are ready to return.
But, yes, people have done this and depending on a variety of factors, have had varying degrees of success.
Take care of yourself first. Law school will still be there when you are ready to go back.

KB

EnglishApplicant2017
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby EnglishApplicant2017 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:34 pm

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Last edited by EnglishApplicant2017 on Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:27 am

Coming today I am going to post a blog of the step by step process of how someone with a low LSAT/high GPA was admitted to multiple t14 schools. I'll tweet it the second it's up, I think (hope) this should be good stuff!

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chargers21
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby chargers21 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:22 pm

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Last edited by chargers21 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Walliums
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Walliums » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:36 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:Coming today I am going to post a blog of the step by step process of how someone with a low LSAT/high GPA was admitted to multiple t14 schools. I'll tweet it the second it's up, I think (hope) this should be good stuff!


Your latest tweets on the worst personal statement intro you could draft has given me flashbacks to Judges from the September LSAT :?

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby MikeSpivey » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:25 pm

Walliums wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Coming today I am going to post a blog of the step by step process of how someone with a low LSAT/high GPA was admitted to multiple t14 schools. I'll tweet it the second it's up, I think (hope) this should be good stuff!


Your latest tweets on the worst personal statement intro you could draft has given me flashbacks to Judges from the September LSAT :?


I do those once a year, they are super fun because basically I'm saying what people really say -- just changing a few words up and adding the word "unique" in -- the most loathed word in law admissions. "Your unique international law program makes me a unique fit for Westeros Law" :P I have seen so many times.

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Walliums
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Re: Spivey Consulting Q&A with Adcoms from Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago etc.

Postby Walliums » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:56 pm

MikeSpivey wrote:
Walliums wrote:
MikeSpivey wrote:Coming today I am going to post a blog of the step by step process of how someone with a low LSAT/high GPA was admitted to multiple t14 schools. I'll tweet it the second it's up, I think (hope) this should be good stuff!


Your latest tweets on the worst personal statement intro you could draft has given me flashbacks to Judges from the September LSAT :?


I do those once a year, they are super fun because basically I'm saying what people really say -- just changing a few words up and adding the word "unique" in -- the most loathed word in law admissions. "Your unique international law program makes me a unique fit for Westeros Law" :P I have seen so many times.


You guys should have a contest where you have people submit the worst PS they can write. Just for fun :P


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