Employment in the US from Canada?

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njdevils2626
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Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby njdevils2626 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:32 pm

I am a K-JD Canadian student who has lived his entire life in Montreal, Quebec and is looking to branch out for law school. I have always wanted to work in the US and would like to at least leave that door open, however I have nothing against further Canadian exploration and living here for a while. I have applied almost exclusively to American schools, in large part due to this preference but also simply because they weight the LSAT much higher in comparison to GPA than do Canadian schools and as a super splitter I needed all the help I can get.

I applied to the University of British Columbia as I've always been interested in moving out West, and would strongly consider attending as it is a great Canadian university that can provide a fantastic education and it is quite difficult to turn down the option of going to law school for $10K full tuition. I was wondering, if I do indeed decide to attend UBC, how this would affect my employment options in the US coming from a Canadian institution. I have no problems working in Canada, but would like to leave my doors open to the US. Does anyone know of placement stats in the US coming from a Canadian law school (UBC in particular)? Is it even a possibility? Any information could be extremely helpful as there simply isn't a large community for Canadian law schools the way it has developed here for the US.

Thank you

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njdevils2626
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby njdevils2626 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:15 pm

Nobody has any info at all? :(

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banjo
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby banjo » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:50 am

You might have better luck on lawstudents.ca.

My impression, though, is that your chances out of UBC (or even UT) are not that great. Over the past few years, about 5% of UT grads have worked in NYC: http://www.law.utoronto.ca/student-life ... statistics. That figure is a little lower at UBC (--LinkRemoved--). I'm not sure how much self-selection affects that figure.

If I had to go to law school in Canada, I'd probably pick UT and then Alberta/Calgary. UBC and UVic are both good, but BC salaries are a little low relative to COL. The Alberta legal market is also quite strong, like Texas.

Do you really want to go to law school in the US? It's pretty much a mess here.

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Balthy
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby Balthy » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:32 am

Your city has some or the hottest chicks i've ever seen. Probably highest average on a 10 scale too. Just take that into considerationg.

Eta: also not sure how much of those NYC rates is self-selection but i'd guess a whole lot.

igo2northwestern
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby igo2northwestern » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:55 am

Friend of mine goes to either UT or Osgoode, and she tells me that there were ~6 students who got US Biglaw. That's <<5%. She told me that barely any US firms recruited there -- pretty much only NYC Biglaw.

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Lincoln
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby Lincoln » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:36 am

I know a few Canadians at my firm (big NYC shop) and a few peer firms. Most of the ones I've met were from UT, and I got the impression they were top of the class or close to it. I know one guy from McGill at my firm, and he was also top of the class and had a Canadian Supreme Court clerkship under his belt. It's doable, but not easy.

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njdevils2626
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby njdevils2626 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:12 pm

Lincoln wrote:I know a few Canadians at my firm (big NYC shop) and a few peer firms. Most of the ones I've met were from UT, and I got the impression they were top of the class or close to it. I know one guy from McGill at my firm, and he was also top of the class and had a Canadian Supreme Court clerkship under his belt. It's doable, but not easy.


I'm aware that for Canadian law schools, especially in New York, it's pretty much UofT or bust (I'm a McGill undergrad now so I know how hard it is for some of my friends in law school looking to NY). I was wondering if UBC might have any reach into, say, the California market. I'm sure that it is going to be incredibly difficult no matter where I do go to school in the end, but I'm trying to balance my options. I have a $120,000 scholarship offer from WUSTL which is incredibly tempting and so I'm really looking to see if it's worth it to pass that up for UBC should I get in

Thanks for all your help so far everyone, I know that it will be incredibly difficult no matter where I go to law school and I don't want anyone sugar-coating anything so feel free to tell me your thoughts without hesitation

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Lincoln
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby Lincoln » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:13 pm

I would not go to WUSTL over UBC.

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njdevils2626
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby njdevils2626 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:27 pm

Lincoln wrote:I would not go to WUSTL over UBC.


Thank you for your opinion. I think this is the direction I would lean as well. I just wish that there were as much info available for Canadian law schools as there is in the US. The community over at lawstudents.ca is completely dead and, while I know Canada was certainly hit by the recession as was the US, I really don't know just how tough it is for Canadian students to get jobs.

Like I said above, I'm not dead-set on the US, just wishing to keep the door open. If anyone knows of anywhere I can search for employment stats or anything else that I may use as a resource for Canadian law schools, I would greatly appreciate it.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:57 pm

Just for reference, there was someone at my law school who did law school in Canada; when he came to the US, he had to take 1L courses at an American school to be eligible to take the bar (that's why he was at my school as well). He then did pass the US bar, clerked, and ended up in biglaw (small market, not NYC or California). But more to the point, look into what you'd have to do to be able to take the bar in the US and practice here after doing law school in Canada.

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pertristis
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby pertristis » Fri May 02, 2014 6:36 pm

At my V5, I know my summer class had at least one from McGill in our office.

serdog
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby serdog » Mon May 05, 2014 8:25 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Just for reference, there was someone at my law school who did law school in Canada; when he came to the US, he had to take 1L courses at an American school to be eligible to take the bar (that's why he was at my school as well). He then did pass the US bar, clerked, and ended up in biglaw (small market, not NYC or California). But more to the point, look into what you'd have to do to be able to take the bar in the US and practice here after doing law school in Canada.


It depends on state, my understanding is that Mass(for sure and very clear that Canadain law School count) and NY both will allow the bar and California will allow a member of another bar to write its bar exam. I will say that some Bar require up a full US JD

That being said there are some option to transfer that may be easier or harder depending going Canada to US, on the other US to Canada will require the NCA exams and maybe a few terms at a Canadian law school you will rarely see US grads working in Canada and with the mistake of more Canadain law school*TWU* being made it will get harder and harder to compete without connections. My gut is saying that UBC or UVIC at sticker would likely be better if you want Big Law somewhere on the west coast of North America then the scholarship option. Remember Canadian school are somewhat regional(other UofT and maybe Uvic) so if you want Vancouver attend UBC or UVIC

Note: I am a UVIC law JD candidate(wait on formal confirmation of my degree)

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njdevils2626
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby njdevils2626 » Tue May 06, 2014 12:37 am

serdog wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Just for reference, there was someone at my law school who did law school in Canada; when he came to the US, he had to take 1L courses at an American school to be eligible to take the bar (that's why he was at my school as well). He then did pass the US bar, clerked, and ended up in biglaw (small market, not NYC or California). But more to the point, look into what you'd have to do to be able to take the bar in the US and practice here after doing law school in Canada.


It depends on state, my understanding is that Mass(for sure and very clear that Canadain law School count) and NY both will allow the bar and California will allow a member of another bar to write its bar exam. I will say that some Bar require up a full US JD

That being said there are some option to transfer that may be easier or harder depending going Canada to US, on the other US to Canada will require the NCA exams and maybe a few terms at a Canadian law school you will rarely see US grads working in Canada and with the mistake of more Canadain law school*TWU* being made it will get harder and harder to compete without connections. My gut is saying that UBC or UVIC at sticker would likely be better if you want Big Law somewhere on the west coast of North America then the scholarship option. Remember Canadian school are somewhat regional(other UofT and maybe Uvic) so if you want Vancouver attend UBC or UVIC

Note: I am a UVIC law JD candidate(wait on formal confirmation of my degree)


Thanks a lot for the input, I really appreciate it! I should be hearing back in the next 2 weeks or so from UBC and at that point the decision will either be much clearer or need to be made. I will definitely take another look at your advice come that time. I have no problem with living in Vancouver or St. Louis, my main priority is the available and likely employment outcomes.

moshiksss
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby moshiksss » Mon May 12, 2014 10:06 pm

SPAM

Phil Brooks
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby Phil Brooks » Thu May 22, 2014 11:55 pm

Fellow Canadian here at a T7. A couple things to consider:

1. Assuming that the difficulty of finding a job is equal, from a purely bureaucratic perspective it is much easier to come from a Canadian law school to the US than it is from an American law school to Canada, because Canada imposes legal hurdles on foreign-trained lawyers (NCA exams + bar + articling) that USA doesn't (just bar for NY and MA). Canada is very protectionist.

2. Tweaking the above assumption, if you go to a top American school with name recognition--meaning HYSC--it can be easier to get an interview with employers in Canada if you are strategic. You can develop your Canadian contacts when you go home over winter break or at the beginning of summers.

3. A few American firms (Shearman, Paul Weiss, Skadden) have offices in Toronto staffed with American grads, whose work consists exclusively of helping Canadian businesses issue debt and equity offerings in the US. You are a "foreign legal consultant" and not a lawyer practicing Canadian law. You make American salaries.

4. I don't mean to discourage, but I have never heard of anyone from UBC being employed in an American law firm, while Paul Weiss NY is brimming with grads from U of T.

hcrimson2014
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby hcrimson2014 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:34 am

Phil Brooks wrote:
4. I don't mean to discourage, but I have never heard of anyone from UBC being employed in an American law firm, while Paul Weiss NY is brimming with grads from U of T.


Are you from SFU? A search from Paul Weiss comes up with 2 lawyers who graduated from UBC law.

http://www.paulweiss.com/professionalse ... 20of%20Law

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njdevils2626
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby njdevils2626 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:40 pm

hcrimson2014 wrote:
Phil Brooks wrote:
4. I don't mean to discourage, but I have never heard of anyone from UBC being employed in an American law firm, while Paul Weiss NY is brimming with grads from U of T.


Are you from SFU? A search from Paul Weiss comes up with 2 lawyers who graduated from UBC law.

http://www.paulweiss.com/professionalse ... 20of%20Law


To be fair, I was asking about employment in the US so two lawyers working in Hong Kong doesn't really help

mcmand
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Re: Employment in the US from Canada?

Postby mcmand » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:24 pm

njdevils2626 wrote:
serdog wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Just for reference, there was someone at my law school who did law school in Canada; when he came to the US, he had to take 1L courses at an American school to be eligible to take the bar (that's why he was at my school as well). He then did pass the US bar, clerked, and ended up in biglaw (small market, not NYC or California). But more to the point, look into what you'd have to do to be able to take the bar in the US and practice here after doing law school in Canada.


It depends on state, my understanding is that Mass(for sure and very clear that Canadain law School count) and NY both will allow the bar and California will allow a member of another bar to write its bar exam. I will say that some Bar require up a full US JD

That being said there are some option to transfer that may be easier or harder depending going Canada to US, on the other US to Canada will require the NCA exams and maybe a few terms at a Canadian law school you will rarely see US grads working in Canada and with the mistake of more Canadain law school*TWU* being made it will get harder and harder to compete without connections. My gut is saying that UBC or UVIC at sticker would likely be better if you want Big Law somewhere on the west coast of North America then the scholarship option. Remember Canadian school are somewhat regional(other UofT and maybe Uvic) so if you want Vancouver attend UBC or UVIC

Note: I am a UVIC law JD candidate(wait on formal confirmation of my degree)


Thanks a lot for the input, I really appreciate it! I should be hearing back in the next 2 weeks or so from UBC and at that point the decision will either be much clearer or need to be made. I will definitely take another look at your advice come that time. I have no problem with living in Vancouver or St. Louis, my main priority is the available and likely employment outcomes.


Hi there,

If you go to UBC and you want to practice in the U.S., one of your better bets would be Washington State, mainly because it's immediately to the south of Vancouver and its rules have become more flexible for admitting foreign lawyers. Check out this webpage:
http://www.wsba.org/Licensing-and-Lawye ... e-Bar-Exam

Basically, you will need to get an LLM from an ABA school (UW in Seattle will offer one that qualifies) after your studies at UBC, unless you practice in Canada for 3 years after you graduate. Bear in mind that is 3 years from the date you're licensed. I think Canada might have a similar system to England & Wales where there is a circuitous internship process before being "called to the bar."




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