at what point would you give up?

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anandamide

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at what point would you give up?

Postby anandamide » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:07 pm

I think I give up.

I took
-VA in February 2017 and failed - had 6 weeks to prepare and didn't really know what I was doing
-VA in July 2017 and failed - had an active miscarriage during the exam
-took the UBE in Feb 2018 while 4.5 months pregnant and failed by a few points. Skipped the upcoming July because I had a baby.
-took the UBE in Feb 2019 and passed essay portion only.
-took the UBE in July 2019 MBE only and missed it again. I only need a 133.

I am devastated. It shouldnt be *this* hard to be an attorney. At this point I am unhirable anywhere, and to be frank, too old for this shit. I am just speechless at this point.

I've done Adaptibar, Ameribar, Kaplan, Barbri, and worked with 4-5 different tutors. My Adaptibar #'s were around 72%.

I am lucky that I already have a decent paying job and my husband is an attorney, so I'm not going to starve but I am so upset I don't feel like I can carry on. :(

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LSATWiz.com

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby LSATWiz.com » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:10 pm

anandamide wrote:I think I give up.

I took
-VA in February 2017 and failed - had 6 weeks to prepare and didn't really know what I was doing
-VA in July 2017 and failed - had an active miscarriage during the exam
-took the UBE in Feb 2018 while 4.5 months pregnant and failed by a few points. Skipped the upcoming July because I had a baby.
-took the UBE in Feb 2019 and passed essay portion only.
-took the UBE in July 2019 MBE only and missed it again. I only need a 133.

I am devastated. It shouldnt be *this* hard to be an attorney. At this point I am unhirable anywhere, and to be frank, too old for this shit. I am just speechless at this point.

I've done Adaptibar, Ameribar, Kaplan, Barbri, and worked with 4-5 different tutors. My Adaptibar #'s were around 72%.

I am lucky that I already have a decent paying job and my husband is an attorney, so I'm not going to starve but I am so upset I don't feel like I can carry on. :(

You keep going to you pass. You do seem to be psychologically inconsistent. On the one hand, you're using your pregnancies as a reason for why you didn't pass. On the other, you're using the fact you didn't pass as an excuse to stop trying.

This is interpreting life events in a way that makes it least likely to achieve your goals. An alternative interpretation is that you didn't do a good enough job on the prior tests to pass, and will work harder to achieve your goals. There is a confident/taking responsibility approach and a deflection approach to each of the 2 factors (failing and discipline going forward), and you seem to have taken the latter for both while you need to take the former if you intend to succeed in life.

This isn't to take away from the difficulties of getting pregnant twice and likely trauma of miscarrying, but that's the reality you're in and many women succeed in law in that reality.

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anandamide

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby anandamide » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:22 pm

that's fucked up...even for strangers on the internet.

LSATWiz.com wrote:
anandamide wrote:I think I give up.

I took
-VA in February 2017 and failed - had 6 weeks to prepare and didn't really know what I was doing
-VA in July 2017 and failed - had an active miscarriage during the exam
-took the UBE in Feb 2018 while 4.5 months pregnant and failed by a few points. Skipped the upcoming July because I had a baby.
-took the UBE in Feb 2019 and passed essay portion only.
-took the UBE in July 2019 MBE only and missed it again. I only need a 133.

I am devastated. It shouldnt be *this* hard to be an attorney. At this point I am unhirable anywhere, and to be frank, too old for this shit. I am just speechless at this point.

I've done Adaptibar, Ameribar, Kaplan, Barbri, and worked with 4-5 different tutors. My Adaptibar #'s were around 72%.

I am lucky that I already have a decent paying job and my husband is an attorney, so I'm not going to starve but I am so upset I don't feel like I can carry on. :(

You keep going to you pass. You do seem to be psychologically inconsistent. On the one hand, you're using your pregnancies as a reason for why you didn't pass. On the other, you're using the fact you didn't pass as an excuse to stop trying.

This is interpreting life events in a way that makes it least likely to achieve your goals. An alternative interpretation is that you didn't do a good enough job on the prior tests to pass, and will work harder to achieve your goals. There is a confident/taking responsibility approach and a deflection approach to each of the 2 factors (failing and discipline going forward), and you seem to have taken the latter for both while you need to take the former if you intend to succeed in life.

This isn't to take away from the difficulties of getting pregnant twice and likely trauma of miscarrying, but that's the reality you're in and many women succeed in law in that reality.

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PrayFor170

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby PrayFor170 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:33 pm

Don't give up something solely because "it's too hard" or "it's too frustrating", otherwise you'll stumble upon the same problem later when you do something else. Everything in the world is hard. Every career path is hard. There is, however, something slightly comforting about the bar exam - it's really "you reap what you sow", your efforts will pay off as long as you are willing to put in the time and effort.

Don't give up something before you put 100% effort in it. I can see from your post that there is always something significant going on in your life. I personally know two people who suffered miscarriage a couple of days before the bar exam, and they literally headed to the test center right after being discharged from the hospital. Both of them passed. It sucks that life won't stop for you to recover from the mess, but you'll have to learn to manage. Try to see a therapist and figure out ways to cope with it.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh or condescending. I just don't want you to lie on your deathbed, decades later, regretting this decision you've made here, out of sheer frustration.

dabigchina

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby dabigchina » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:55 pm

People are being a bit harsh here. That being said, the bar is designed to be something that you commit a significant amount of time studying for. I would think about putting your other commitments on hold briefly so you have more time to study. Can you take a month or two off work before the bar? Do you have a support network that you can leverage for child care? Totally understand not being able to take time off either, but it's something you need to consider if you really want to nail the next one.

goodkarma56

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby goodkarma56 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:01 pm

Definitely do not give up. You made it through law school and you can make it past the bar exam too! FWIW, I recommend that you reapply for the exam, pick a review course that you like (I'm partial to BarBri, but any reputable course will suffice) and, most importantly, commit to studying like you never have before for two solid months prior to the bar exam with as few distractions as humanly possible. If you can do that, I reckon that you'll pass and you'll put all of this angst behind you. Good luck.

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby passthebarnow » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:56 pm

I hate to hear that you are struggling with failure, again. I have been there, it sucks. It makes you wonder what is wrong with you compared to everyone else. Life can add just the right amount of challenges that make it feel near impossible. But, I would like to offer my help to you! I help bar re-takers finally pass the bar. We roll with life and just keep it going til we reach success. It is not easy, but I think I could offer you the exact help you are needing to pass. Please, do not give up. :D

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Elston Gunn

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby Elston Gunn » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:22 pm

It’s not clear to me what the actual value of passing the bar is to you. Unless you see a clear path to a better career than your current one as a barred attorney, I’m not clear why you need the angst of this.

theswisswereright

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby theswisswereright » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:11 am

I'd argue those first two failures were not entirely on you (particularly not the second one). Lack of preparation is bad, but you know now that you walked in underprepared and you don't plan on repeating that. There are studies I've read that shows pregnancy is also not great for information retention, but I don't know how credible those were.

I'd never advise a general "give up," but it would be helpful to know how close you were to passing each time you failed. Have you been improving every time you take the MBE? Do you have to take the whole thing again, or can you keep that passing essay score and only take the MBE again? If your MBE score has consistently been way off from passing, maybe looking into JD-preferred careers is the right move (although you say you have a decent job now, which is good). If it's been close every time, or improving steadily, you just need a little luck and a new strategy.

I don't know how helpful my main strategy will be to you, but I bought the Critical Pass flash cards and just spent hours every day explaining every single topic to my mom, my dogs, my cat, anyone who would listen. I figured that if I could teach it to someone else in plain language, I could answer the MBEs about it. [I distinctly remember telling my beagle that he was better than a quitclaim deed, and should he ever purchase property, he should not accept one because that's asking for trouble.]

You've already done a ton of courses, so I don't know if more video lectures will help you. For me, it was about internalizing the information in a mental Rolodex, so I could pull it out when needed. The cards were great for that-- it gave me a framework to go on.

As a secondary matter, I'd spend some time reading practice MBE answer explanations, even if you know the answer without doing so. I caught a lot of stupid mistakes doing that, trying to figure out WHY the right answer was right.

If you've already done these things, I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help. Best of luck to you, wherever your future takes you.

barkschool

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby barkschool » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:12 am

Short answer but I don’t think you were fully prepared and using adaptibar as the metric. The passing rate for the mbe is usually around the 70% mark and the stress of being at the bar making those multiple choice questions that much harder. Coming into the last two weeks of bar prep you really need to be in the 80’s consistently. Make a flash card for every missed question. Do them in chunks of 20 or 30 every day and then review those answers. Only do they in the morning this way you are on a schedule.

By the time you get to the bar it’ll just be like practice.

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby QContinuum » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:18 am

anandamide wrote:I think I give up.

I took
-VA in February 2017 and failed - had 6 weeks to prepare and didn't really know what I was doing
-VA in July 2017 and failed - had an active miscarriage during the exam
-took the UBE in Feb 2018 while 4.5 months pregnant and failed by a few points. Skipped the upcoming July because I had a baby.
-took the UBE in Feb 2019 and passed essay portion only.
-took the UBE in July 2019 MBE only and missed it again. I only need a 133.

It does look like you are making progress. You went from "failed" in 2017 to "failed by a few points" in 2018 to "passed essay portion" in 2019. If you were consistently very far from passing, then that might be one thing, but it looks like you are now on the cusp of passing. How far away from a 133 are you on the MBE? Another thing to consider, if you're consistently much stronger on the MEE/MPT than the MBE, it may also make sense for you to retake the whole thing so your essay score can help pull up a close-but-not-quite-133 MBE score next time 'round.

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LSATWiz.com

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby LSATWiz.com » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:30 pm

theswisswereright wrote:I'd argue those first two failures were not entirely on you (particularly not the second one). Lack of preparation is bad, but you know now that you walked in underprepared and you don't plan on repeating that. There are studies I've read that shows pregnancy is also not great for information retention, but I don't know how credible those were.

I'd never advise a general "give up," but it would be helpful to know how close you were to passing each time you failed. Have you been improving every time you take the MBE? Do you have to take the whole thing again, or can you keep that passing essay score and only take the MBE again? If your MBE score has consistently been way off from passing, maybe looking into JD-preferred careers is the right move (although you say you have a decent job now, which is good). If it's been close every time, or improving steadily, you just need a little luck and a new strategy.

I don't know how helpful my main strategy will be to you, but I bought the Critical Pass flash cards and just spent hours every day explaining every single topic to my mom, my dogs, my cat, anyone who would listen. I figured that if I could teach it to someone else in plain language, I could answer the MBEs about it. [I distinctly remember telling my beagle that he was better than a quitclaim deed, and should he ever purchase property, he should not accept one because that's asking for trouble.]

You've already done a ton of courses, so I don't know if more video lectures will help you. For me, it was about internalizing the information in a mental Rolodex, so I could pull it out when needed. The cards were great for that-- it gave me a framework to go on.

As a secondary matter, I'd spend some time reading practice MBE answer explanations, even if you know the answer without doing so. I caught a lot of stupid mistakes doing that, trying to figure out WHY the right answer was right.

If you've already done these things, I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help. Best of luck to you, wherever your future takes you.

I wasn't saying the failures were on OP. I'm saying OP wants to treat it as they (and not circumstances outside their control) are why they failed to reinforce the idea that they are the ones who control whether they pass. Winning athletes don't blame a soar shoulder or the refs or the skill of the other team for losing. They own it.

I think my post was honest and motivational, not harmful towards OP. I'd have said the same thing to a friend or paying client.

theswisswereright

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby theswisswereright » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:11 pm

LSATWiz.com wrote:
theswisswereright wrote:I'd argue those first two failures were not entirely on you (particularly not the second one). Lack of preparation is bad, but you know now that you walked in underprepared and you don't plan on repeating that. There are studies I've read that shows pregnancy is also not great for information retention, but I don't know how credible those were.

I'd never advise a general "give up," but it would be helpful to know how close you were to passing each time you failed. Have you been improving every time you take the MBE? Do you have to take the whole thing again, or can you keep that passing essay score and only take the MBE again? If your MBE score has consistently been way off from passing, maybe looking into JD-preferred careers is the right move (although you say you have a decent job now, which is good). If it's been close every time, or improving steadily, you just need a little luck and a new strategy.

I don't know how helpful my main strategy will be to you, but I bought the Critical Pass flash cards and just spent hours every day explaining every single topic to my mom, my dogs, my cat, anyone who would listen. I figured that if I could teach it to someone else in plain language, I could answer the MBEs about it. [I distinctly remember telling my beagle that he was better than a quitclaim deed, and should he ever purchase property, he should not accept one because that's asking for trouble.]

You've already done a ton of courses, so I don't know if more video lectures will help you. For me, it was about internalizing the information in a mental Rolodex, so I could pull it out when needed. The cards were great for that-- it gave me a framework to go on.

As a secondary matter, I'd spend some time reading practice MBE answer explanations, even if you know the answer without doing so. I caught a lot of stupid mistakes doing that, trying to figure out WHY the right answer was right.

If you've already done these things, I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help. Best of luck to you, wherever your future takes you.

I wasn't saying the failures were on OP. I'm saying OP wants to treat it as they (and not circumstances outside their control) are why they failed to reinforce the idea that they are the ones who control whether they pass. Winning athletes don't blame a soar shoulder or the refs or the skill of the other team for losing. They own it.

I think my post was honest and motivational, not harmful towards OP. I'd have said the same thing to a friend or paying client.


I'm really boggled as to why this response quoted me, as I didn't say anything about what you said. I hadn't read your response to the OP before writing my own, and my advice was in no way intended to relate to or rebut yours. I gave my two cents in a way I thought would be helpful, and you say you gave yours in a way you thought would be helpful, and I think that's fine. (I accidentally used the anonymous quote button, sorry about that.)

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby LSATWiz.com » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:40 pm

theswisswereright wrote:
LSATWiz.com wrote:
theswisswereright wrote:I'd argue those first two failures were not entirely on you (particularly not the second one). Lack of preparation is bad, but you know now that you walked in underprepared and you don't plan on repeating that. There are studies I've read that shows pregnancy is also not great for information retention, but I don't know how credible those were.

I'd never advise a general "give up," but it would be helpful to know how close you were to passing each time you failed. Have you been improving every time you take the MBE? Do you have to take the whole thing again, or can you keep that passing essay score and only take the MBE again? If your MBE score has consistently been way off from passing, maybe looking into JD-preferred careers is the right move (although you say you have a decent job now, which is good). If it's been close every time, or improving steadily, you just need a little luck and a new strategy.

I don't know how helpful my main strategy will be to you, but I bought the Critical Pass flash cards and just spent hours every day explaining every single topic to my mom, my dogs, my cat, anyone who would listen. I figured that if I could teach it to someone else in plain language, I could answer the MBEs about it. [I distinctly remember telling my beagle that he was better than a quitclaim deed, and should he ever purchase property, he should not accept one because that's asking for trouble.]

You've already done a ton of courses, so I don't know if more video lectures will help you. For me, it was about internalizing the information in a mental Rolodex, so I could pull it out when needed. The cards were great for that-- it gave me a framework to go on.

As a secondary matter, I'd spend some time reading practice MBE answer explanations, even if you know the answer without doing so. I caught a lot of stupid mistakes doing that, trying to figure out WHY the right answer was right.

If you've already done these things, I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help. Best of luck to you, wherever your future takes you.

I wasn't saying the failures were on OP. I'm saying OP wants to treat it as they (and not circumstances outside their control) are why they failed to reinforce the idea that they are the ones who control whether they pass. Winning athletes don't blame a soar shoulder or the refs or the skill of the other team for losing. They own it.

I think my post was honest and motivational, not harmful towards OP. I'd have said the same thing to a friend or paying client.


I'm really boggled as to why this response quoted me, as I didn't say anything about what you said. I hadn't read your response to the OP before writing my own, and my advice was in no way intended to relate to or rebut yours. I gave my two cents in a way I thought would be helpful, and you say you gave yours in a way you thought would be helpful, and I think that's fine. (I accidentally used the anonymous quote button, sorry about that.)

Sorry, my knowledge of forum acumen, much like my knowledge of technology is quite limited.

WhatsUP?

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby WhatsUP? » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:32 pm

anandamide wrote:I think I give up.

I took
-VA in February 2017 and failed - had 6 weeks to prepare and didn't really know what I was doing
-VA in July 2017 and failed - had an active miscarriage during the exam
-took the UBE in Feb 2018 while 4.5 months pregnant and failed by a few points. Skipped the upcoming July because I had a baby.
-took the UBE in Feb 2019 and passed essay portion only.
-took the UBE in July 2019 MBE only and missed it again. I only need a 133.

I am devastated. It shouldnt be *this* hard to be an attorney. At this point I am unhirable anywhere, and to be frank, too old for this shit. I am just speechless at this point.

I've done Adaptibar, Ameribar, Kaplan, Barbri, and worked with 4-5 different tutors. My Adaptibar #'s were around 72%.

I am lucky that I already have a decent paying job and my husband is an attorney, so I'm not going to starve but I am so upset I don't feel like I can carry on. :(


Personally, I don't feel like you should ever give on taking the exam. I get it. At the time I started law school, I had no idea that I would soon assume an increasing role in becoming a caregiver. Life got complicated (and distracting) REAL fast. After graduating from law school and having failed the Bar, it got to a point where I felt like I had missed the optimal window of opportunity to in earnest study for, take, and pass the exam. But, life went on -- and certainly not without its sorrows and its joys. But, nineteen years after I graduated from law school, I had the opportunity this past February to take the exam -- again. Were the odds against me? Absolutely. Statistically was the probability of me passing high? Not at all. BUT, I did take a formal bar review class and gave it what I had to give. And, believe me, I still felt like my bandwidth was limited between work and family as my life had been in full swing. But, wisdom does come with experience. So, I say focus on your areas of weakness and keep going!!!!!!! You are way to close too give up. Maybe take a break, regroup, and tackle it when you feel refreshed. BUT DO NOT GIVE UP.
NEVER GIVE UP.

And, I don't say that lightly. I know how mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausting it is to put ourselves through retaking the Bar exam. But, this is something you can do.

JDlaw17

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby JDlaw17 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:19 pm

I would contact Joe Seperac. He was my saving grace!! I needed a 132 for Mississippi and made a 146.1 with him. Trust me, I went through a lot to pass this exam. It can be done!

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rcharter1978

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:27 am

OP - i think you just need a win at this point. I passed the CBX the second time. And that one failure really shook my confidence. I cannot imagine how not passing multiple times affects the psyche. It has to mess with your head.

So, have you thought about sitting in a state that has an easier exam? I've heard good things about like NM and DC, but I really don't know. I think my plan was to sit in another state if I couldn't pass after three tries.

Functionally, passing the bar may not mean anything for your career, that seems like a very finite statement....but I just think it would be good for you to see it through.

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Re: at what point would you give up?

Postby Knycaolaw » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:57 pm

Please don’t give up. I know how you feel, I failed the bar exam 3 times before I finally passed and there were many times I wanted to quit too but I didn’t. The truth is you need 2 things. One is that you really do need to find a way to give yourself the time you need to study as stress-free as possible. 2 months or even a little longer if possible. The second is that you need to look at studying in a different manner. You’ve already used tutors but did they all have the same basic approach? Many tutors who are just here to “quiz” you are a huge waste of money. I would look for a tutor who can work within your specific learning style. It may take interviewing a few before you find one that can really make a difference given how you learn and memorize. But please; you only need to work on your MBE now, you can do this!



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