Themis July 2019

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Miss-Bubbled

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Miss-Bubbled » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:07 am

I got a 65 on the graded essay too. I felt like my essay was pretty decent, and while a 65 is passing, passing is supposed to indicate "minimum competence." I'm a little concerned, but hopefully it will all be fine.

I should add for anyone who is contemplating adaptibar that I HIGHLY recommend it. I took the UBE in 2017 with Themis and Adaptibar and ended up with a 172 on the MBE portion (passed the whole thing by a significant margin), but I give most of the credit to Adaptibar. I did really like Themis though and felt a lot less stressed than my classmates who took Barbri.

cavalier1138

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:03 am

Miss-Bubbled wrote:I got a 65 on the graded essay too. I felt like my essay was pretty decent, and while a 65 is passing, passing is supposed to indicate "minimum competence." I'm a little concerned, but hopefully it will all be fine.


Why are you concerned? Passing is passing, and you're already there. You don't get a special license for having a higher passing grade.

AussieAustin

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby AussieAustin » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:48 am

I got my first graded essay back last night - consumer rights. Pleasantly surprised with a 92%. I basically copied their sample answers when it came to describing the elements of the law. Seems to work, now I just need to memorize it since I completed it open book. It’s been a tough few days with property law and now I have a very sick cat on my hands, so I need all the boosts I can get right now.

jc9812

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby jc9812 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:26 pm

AussieAustin wrote:
TLSDookie wrote:Admittedly, I didn't read and note take the in depth outline as closely as I could've. But the Themis MBE questions tested an enormous range of mortgage issue that the video/outline flat out didn't cover. Completely disregarding time, and using all the printed materials delivered at the outset of the course open book, I got 6 of the first 7 real property PQs wrong today, all 7 of which pertained to mortgages, while the video lecture covered mortgages in only a single chapter. I wish the video outline contained all the information required to answer the MBE questions which it flat out does not (e.g. if a person takes a mortgage, enters a tenancy by entirety (marriage) and gets divorced, what share does each person owe was flat out not remotely mentioned in the video lectures). I would rather a 12 hour curriculum that covered every possible rule than an 8 hour curriculum that omits specific tested-on examples. I think our low MBE PQ scores are understandable given we don't have the base of exceptions to rules required to answer the questions, I just wish more of the learning was through lectures than wrong answer choices and reading explanations.


I’ve noticed this too. There seemed to be a lot of questions on mortgages and I really struggled with them. Sometimes I couldnt even pinpoint what the rule was. I had quite a few instances where I said to myself that I never remember hearing about that. The lectures should match the practice questions somewhat. I had The same thing with Texas Real Property. My first practice essay I had no Idea how to answer the question and then realized there was a bunch of stuff from the outline I needed to use - but it wasn’t covered in the lecture.

My strategy now is to analyze each practice question and figure out what rule is applied. It’s really slow going, but I dont know how else to do it.


The amount of mortgage related questions was insane, and the section on mortgages in the big outline is not that helpful. Confusingly written and the rules were not clear.

I'm assuming the proportion of mortgage questions is meant to mirror the proportion on the exam but if not, even more frustrating.

Aasmitty

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Aasmitty » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:53 am

For those struggling with property and seemingly not getting the bigger picture, I HIGHLY recommend watching the property videos on YouTube from USlawreview. They won’t review all the nuances in property law or supplement the outlines, but coupled with Kramer’s lectures they’ve been a god send for me. Especially servitudes and mortgages.

Dunnkirk85

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Dunnkirk85 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:28 pm

How much are you guys memorizing for stuff like family, secured transactions, corporations, etc.? I feel like I know enough to put together a minimally competent essay in those subjects, but Themis wants me to move onto other subjects before I really feel like I know the material well enough to write a good essay. Anyone else feel the same?

AussieAustin

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby AussieAustin » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:50 pm

Dunnkirk85 wrote:How much are you guys memorizing for stuff like family, secured transactions, corporations, etc.? I feel like I know enough to put together a minimally competent essay in those subjects, but Themis wants me to move onto other subjects before I really feel like I know the material well enough to write a good essay. Anyone else feel the same?


I haven’t been writing any essays closed book yet. I just feel it’s too early. I’ve used the sample answers to get a better understanding of how the law is applied.

ReasonablePersonSSC

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby ReasonablePersonSSC » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:52 pm

Aasmitty wrote:For those struggling with property and seemingly not getting the bigger picture, I HIGHLY recommend watching the property videos on YouTube from USlawreview. They won’t review all the nuances in property law or supplement the outlines, but coupled with Kramer’s lectures they’ve been a god send for me. Especially servitudes and mortgages.


Ditto. These video clarified many areas of property for me.

RioGrandeLaw

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby RioGrandeLaw » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:41 pm

Dunnkirk85 wrote:How much are you guys memorizing for stuff like family, secured transactions, corporations, etc.? I feel like I know enough to put together a minimally competent essay in those subjects, but Themis wants me to move onto other subjects before I really feel like I know the material well enough to write a good essay. Anyone else feel the same?


Take a look at JD Advising's predictions: https://www.jdadvising.com/j-d-advising ... edictions/
(CA available also).

Family Law- Minimal. I'll probably hit it close to the exam, but won't spend much time on it.
Secured Transactions-Maybe? I didn't take it in school, so I'm figuring that's going to be an essay to bullshit through. Why waste time learning an entire body of law when you can spend the time firming up and improving scores in areas you do know? So I'll probably just do the work and not devote much time to memorization. Triage is a thing on the MEE.

Corporations/Civ Pro/Crim Pro(ESPECIALLY Crim Pro)/Wills: pretty hard. See the above link.

unreasonabledoubt

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby unreasonabledoubt » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:16 pm

Lemos is incredibly hot

Noobmaster69

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Noobmaster69 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:08 am

justanormalperson wrote:
Lancair wrote:
Dunnkirk85 wrote:
nrthwst4now wrote:Are the Essay Model answers all perfect scores? I am just wondering if those examples are getting 6/6 and are the preferred length?

Also, I scored about 60%-65% in the Contracts MBE PQs.


My understanding is that they are "model" answers. So, probably would be very high scoring. So far I seem to keep mentioning things that I don't need to talk about, and on a few I have definitely written too much. I wish I knew more about how this would affect my score on the exam


Feb '19 passer who studied with Themis. From my discussions with Themis, the model answers are 6/6 in their scoring scales, and an average to 3-4/6 will put you in a good position to pass. I got probably an average of close to 5/6 (mostly 4s and 5s and a couple of 6s), and I got in the 99th percentile for the essay section.

Don't stress about the essays. Near enough is good enough.


Congratulations for passing! Are the MBE questions on Themis pretty similar with the real Bar Exam? Do you have any advise on how to do well on the MBE? :)


Passed F19 with Themis. I would say Themis' MBE questions are pretty similar with the real ones. I scored around 70 to 80% with Themis during practice, and felt good answering all the F19 MBE questions. I was actually surprised to find that some test takers found the F19 MBE portion difficult afterwards.

If you can keep up with Themis' schedule, you should be fine. At the risk of being conflated with another user who is apparently getting a kickback from distributing discount codes, I used CP flashcards to cut a lot of corners. I am not saying you have to or should get the cards, but it did work for me. At this point in time, you likely/should have graduated from law school and you should know how you study best. For me, I learned that it takes me a long time to make card/outlines on my own and I often did so at the expense of actually learning the material. So when I approached the bar exam, I didn't spend any time making my own outline/cards and focused instead on learning the law. CP Flashcards, in that sense, were perfect for me.

cavalier1138

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:57 am

AussieAustin wrote:
Dunnkirk85 wrote:How much are you guys memorizing for stuff like family, secured transactions, corporations, etc.? I feel like I know enough to put together a minimally competent essay in those subjects, but Themis wants me to move onto other subjects before I really feel like I know the material well enough to write a good essay. Anyone else feel the same?


I haven’t been writing any essays closed book yet. I just feel it’s too early. I’ve used the sample answers to get a better understanding of how the law is applied.


I think this is probably fine for early practice essays, but I'm definitely erring on the side of doing graded essays as if it were the real thing. Otherwise, I'm not getting a real sense of how I'm performing under test conditions.

jc9812

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby jc9812 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:50 am

unreasonabledoubt wrote:Lemos is incredibly hot


cool, thank you for registering to tell us this

strawberrieee

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby strawberrieee » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:03 pm

What deviations do you guys make from Themis schedule/task order?

jc9812

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby jc9812 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:23 pm

strawberrieee wrote:What deviations do you guys make from Themis schedule/task order?


i don't do PTs on consecutive days, i take weekends to review/outline, rather than do all the stuff they have planned on weekends (though i might do one or two). and generally if i'm not in the mood to do a task one day, i'll switch it out with something from the next day, provided it makes sense to do so.

RioGrandeLaw

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby RioGrandeLaw » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:55 pm

ReasonablePersonSSC wrote:
Aasmitty wrote:For those struggling with property and seemingly not getting the bigger picture, I HIGHLY recommend watching the property videos on YouTube from USlawreview. They won’t review all the nuances in property law or supplement the outlines, but coupled with Kramer’s lectures they’ve been a god send for me. Especially servitudes and mortgages.


Ditto. These video clarified many areas of property for me.


This Mortgages video is fucking GOLD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShBjbw4to4Y

2k16L1

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby 2k16L1 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:03 pm

Joining.

Anon2468

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Anon2468 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:29 pm

strawberrieee wrote:What deviations do you guys make from Themis schedule/task order?


totally skipping the video lectures. I don't find them useful at all.

RioGrandeLaw

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby RioGrandeLaw » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:40 am

Am I the only one who thinks that law school exams-which I stressed over bigtime- are a joke compared to the bar? I had one professor in school who really worked to give us quizzes based on either MBE questions or MEE essays. She was probably the toughest prof I had, and I'm grateful for what she did, because I knew as a 1L that the bar exam was going to be a bear thanks to her. I never took a multiple-guess test in lawschool that came close to being as hard as the MBE questions. Also, I feel like if I had done something like Adaptibar for each subject, I'd have ACED my finals. I feel like I've learned more law from doing the PQs and reading the explanations than I ever did in law school.

cavalier1138

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:46 am

RioGrandeLaw wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that law school exams-which I stressed over bigtime- are a joke compared to the bar? I had one professor in school who really worked to give us quizzes based on either MBE questions or MEE essays. She was probably the toughest prof I had, and I'm grateful for what she did, because I knew as a 1L that the bar exam was going to be a bear thanks to her. I never took a multiple-guess test in lawschool that came close to being as hard as the MBE questions. Also, I feel like if I had done something like Adaptibar for each subject, I'd have ACED my finals. I feel like I've learned more law from doing the PQs and reading the explanations than I ever did in law school.


Not even a little. Law school exams don't test your ability to "learn the law," (to the extent that memorizing stuff is learning the law) and the bar isn't curved.

I'd be surprised if something like Adaptibar would prepare you to ace law school finals. Doing well on law school exams requires way more than just knowing the black letter law on a surface level and being able to make a snap judgment on a really easy set of facts. The bar seems hard because they add extraneous facts or bury the relevant nugget in the middle of a bunch of convoluted bullshit. But at the end, there's a very clear right answer and easy application of the rule. A law school exam usually finds a set of facts that gets you to the edge of the established law (or a circuit split, etc.), and your grade is based on how well you're able to explore that gray area relative to everyone else in the class.

Also, I'll push back pretty hard on the idea that anything on the bar (minus the MPT) is remotely useful for "learning the law." Memorizing broad swaths of rules in various areas doesn't have much to do with legal practice.

TLSDookie

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby TLSDookie » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:11 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
RioGrandeLaw wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that law school exams-which I stressed over bigtime- are a joke compared to the bar? I had one professor in school who really worked to give us quizzes based on either MBE questions or MEE essays. She was probably the toughest prof I had, and I'm grateful for what she did, because I knew as a 1L that the bar exam was going to be a bear thanks to her. I never took a multiple-guess test in lawschool that came close to being as hard as the MBE questions. Also, I feel like if I had done something like Adaptibar for each subject, I'd have ACED my finals. I feel like I've learned more law from doing the PQs and reading the explanations than I ever did in law school.


Not even a little. Law school exams don't test your ability to "learn the law," (to the extent that memorizing stuff is learning the law) and the bar isn't curved.

I'd be surprised if something like Adaptibar would prepare you to ace law school finals. Doing well on law school exams requires way more than just knowing the black letter law on a surface level and being able to make a snap judgment on a really easy set of facts. The bar seems hard because they add extraneous facts or bury the relevant nugget in the middle of a bunch of convoluted bullshit. But at the end, there's a very clear right answer and easy application of the rule. A law school exam usually finds a set of facts that gets you to the edge of the established law (or a circuit split, etc.), and your grade is based on how well you're able to explore that gray area relative to everyone else in the class.

Also, I'll push back pretty hard on the idea that anything on the bar (minus the MPT) is remotely useful for "learning the law." Memorizing broad swaths of rules in various areas doesn't have much to do with legal practice.


This is undoubtedly correct, if you're just regurgitating rules in quasi-bullet point form on law school finals like the bar asks of you, you're not even approaching median. It's interesting no state has figured out a better way to assess legal competency than memorize a bunch of bullshit, of which no single legal practice will use more than 5% ever again after taking the bar. Not only do law classes (and practice) not ask you to do any memorization, but the LSAT was also a test of systematic approach to problem diagnosing with no memorization involved. The common refrain is that by finishing law school, you should know how you learn best, but the type of learning required for pulling apart an issue spotter and probing the legal gray area is very different from the type of learning required for memorizing the elements/factors of numerous unrelated areas of law. The last time I had to memorize to this extent was when I burned out of undergrad premed in orgo chem with valence electrons and organic molecule structures, circa 2010. It makes me wonder if I'm missing something fundamental about the proper way to study for the bar, but the fact so many people on here recommend flashcards and pure memorization makes me think I'm not.

Anyway, that's enough salty whining for this morning about the bar, time to grind through some more half-correct rules and infinite exceptions, until I hit my next breaking point in a few hours.

jc9812

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby jc9812 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:59 pm

this week wrapped up not so great for me. scoring lower on the PQs than i'd like despite putting in a lot of work. pretty tired and discouraged at the moment.

this sucks!

Dunnkirk85

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Dunnkirk85 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:18 pm

jc9812 wrote:this week wrapped up not so great for me. scoring lower on the PQs than i'd like despite putting in a lot of work. pretty tired and discouraged at the moment.

this sucks!


Where are you scoring at? I think doing the MBE quiz builder is really useful to practice & get confidence back up

2k16L1

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby 2k16L1 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:51 pm

Anyone else using the Quiz Builder noticing that some questions are repeat questions?

ipsares

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby ipsares » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:58 pm

Anyone know what the "benchmark" score for MBE questions means? Does that mean the average of the people taking it or where to be to pass? In CA more than half don't pass so if its just an average I feel like I need to be way above it.



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