Themis July 2019

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mornincounselor

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby mornincounselor » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:36 pm

RioGrandeLaw wrote:Well, I feel like I've been spanked like a red-headed step child.

[Obligatory reminder not to mention specifics of questions]


Yup so much for me banking on the mbe to make up for the horrible mpt. Had plenty of extra time but especially during the first half so many questions I just had no idea.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby HairySmokeball » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:40 pm

RioGrandeLaw wrote:Well, I feel like I've been spanked like a red-headed step child.

[Obligatory reminder not to mention specifics of questions]


Yeah, that really sucked. Last time I tested, I had plenty of time at the end of both AM and PM set...close to 30 minutes. Today, I had 3 minutes to spare in the AM and about 5 minutes in the PM. And, man...so many questions really had me scratching my head. I do think the AM was more challenging to me than the PM one, though.

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westinghouse60

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby westinghouse60 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:35 pm

A lot of the questions/answer choices were just worded very differently than I'd seen on Themis.

There were some questions where I 100% knew the rule/what they were testing but the answers or the call were all just weird/irrelevant seeming, and I'd have to pick the "least bad" one.

Hopefully those were the experimental ones lol.

Overall though I thought there were more freebies than some of Themis practice sets though.

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lolabear727

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby lolabear727 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:50 pm

RioGrandeLaw wrote:Well, I feel like I've been spanked like a red-headed step child.

[Obligatory reminder not to mention specifics of questions]



Same.. the morning MBE was rough for me. I had book 3 for the morning and I'm just hoping a lot of the throw-away questions were on that set..

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby RioGrandeLaw » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:18 pm

Did anyone else think the exam was very similar in difficulty to PE 2 and 3? Which I sucked on. I honestly thought they would have a spectrum of question-difficulty, basically a curve with a few easy questions, mostly medium questions, and a few insanely hard questions. Instead, it felt like they selected only the most difficult questions. I mean, if all our MBE PQs were actual prior MBE questions...we got FUKKKKED. Because this exam was legit harder than maybe 70% of the PQs.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby lemondhead » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:20 am

westinghouse60 wrote:A lot of the questions/answer choices were just worded very differently than I'd seen on Themis.

There were some questions where I 100% knew the rule/what they were testing but the answers or the call were all just weird/irrelevant seeming, and I'd have to pick the "least bad" one.

Hopefully those were the experimental ones lol.

Overall though I thought there were more freebies than some of Themis practice sets though.


Same. A lot of them I honestly couldn't figure out what the hell they were testing. I'd form the answer in my head like the lectures said, then look down at the choices and...nothing. Repeat ad nauseam. Not at all similar to the 1800 Themis questions I did. Like the poster above you, I struggled with time both morning and afternoon. My average time on the Themis questions was 1:18.

I thought that if I survived the MEE, which I felt like I did, then today would be the day to bring it home. Not so. I enjoyed Themis, but today I felt like I may as well have gone in blind.

I'm fortunate that I've been out of school a few years and my job isn't JD required, so this was mostly for me. Still, it feels bad to be out a few grand, 4.5 months, and some dignity. Good luck to everyone, especially those who have offers pending passage. All my friends who passed said they also felt like they missed 100 MBE, and they didn't. Maybe we will be okay.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Ninamir » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:03 am

Don’t worry too much. I graduated 4 years prior to finally sitting for the bar. I sat for the bar last July 2018. I was working full time as well and had to basically study and relearn everything after having been out of law school for 4 years. I took no time off of work except the Friday and Monday before the exam. I was scoring similar to you on the practice exams as well. Most of my scores were in the low 60s and occasionally I’ll get some in the 70s, but it wasn’t consistent. On the first day of the exam I freaked out and missed an ENTIRE mpt question completely. That caused me to mentally freak out the rest of the exam and the second day I missed 20 multiple choice questions, and timing had never been an issue for me before. I knew it was going to be impossible for me to pass having missed so much and it was true I had failed it by 5 points. I took it again in February, but this time I didn’t get to open a book due to work an family issues that took place around the same time. The only studying I got in for February was the week before the exam, and the only day I took off of work was the Monday before the exam. Basically I was relying on the knowledge I had learned 6 months prior to pass the February exam and again I had zero expectation of passing. I even called to see if I can cancel the exam, but they said I’d lose my money. So basically I showed up for the heck of it and PASSED with a 277... had I not psyched myself out the first time an missed so many questions I probably would’ve passed then too... so don’t worry too much you probably did much better than you think you did, and most likely will be fine :)

lemondhead wrote:
lolabear727 wrote:
westinghouse60 wrote:Strategically procrastinating so that everything is just now being put in my brain


Same. Took this week off from work to study and I've done about 5 solid hours... I feel like I do better as a crunch test taker anyhow. Barred in another state. So it's not my first go. I'm glad I'm not the only one.


Seconding. I graduated a few years ago, never sat. I work full-time so I started back in March. May have been a little early, as I got burned out hard in June and early July.

I'm sitting at about 75% course completion. 1500 MBE with a 60% average (so all of you scoring higher, take heart). Also did the first three practice exams, so another 300 MBE. Did a bunch of essays and 10 or so MPT. I'm just kinda done at this point; after 4.5 months, I'm just ready for whatever happens.

So, 60% average on all MBE, and 131/200 on my simulated. Graded essays were harsh. Threes and fours, one five, and really solid MPT. I didn't do the last two. Latest MBE sets have been between 60-80%, so kinda all over. I keep talking myself out of answers because I'm exception-hunting, so I may quit MBEs at this point.

My jurisdiction has a pass score in the high 260s. Seperac estimates a pass, but I graduated so long ago now that I'm unsure. I wish I had done more than 1500 MBE and that my average was over 60%.

I wish I hadn't hit a wall, but I couldn't pull 60+ hour weeks anymore. I took the last week off work and have only managed 3-5 hours a day, all MBE-heavy. I think tomorrow I'm gonna work on MEE and call it.

If anyone has any encouragement, I'd appreciate it. I'll be counting on that 15-20 point scaled bump. Good luck, all. If anyone has any last minute tips, let me know. We're almost done.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:17 am

westinghouse60 wrote:A lot of the questions/answer choices were just worded very differently than I'd seen on Themis.


I definitely remember a few questions where I knew what rule they were talking about, but it definitely wasn't a name I'd seen Themis use for it.

I thought the Themis practice exams were much harder, though. The real thing had a lot of super-easy questions along the lines of "Federal question jurisdiction requires that the complaint present what kind of question?" that just didn't appear in the Themis exams.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby HairySmokeball » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:02 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
westinghouse60 wrote:A lot of the questions/answer choices were just worded very differently than I'd seen on Themis.


I definitely remember a few questions where I knew what rule they were talking about, but it definitely wasn't a name I'd seen Themis use for it.

I thought the Themis practice exams were much harder, though. The real thing had a lot of super-easy questions along the lines of "Federal question jurisdiction requires that the complaint present what kind of question?" that just didn't appear in the Themis exams.


Super easy? Blah...I think there were about 10 questions that I would have said were "super easy"...the rest looked like something along these lines (borrowed from Reddit)

Plaintiff, a resident of state X who attended college in state Y and is registered to vote in state X, received his law degree from a private university in state X. Plaintiff’s well plead complaint alleges that he paid several thousand dollars for a bar review course from Defendant, a crumbum incorporated in state Y who engages in business in several other states. Plaintiff is the representative of a class of 30,000 similarly situated jabronies domiciled in all states in which Defendant does business. On May 1, Defendant stepped on Plaintiff’s sneakers. Assume that the forum state’s law bars recovery. What is the best argument Plaintiff can not not make to not win or lose his case?

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby CEReds » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:20 am

I was fairly confident practicing MBEs with Themis, above the goal, 65% overall but in the last month my accuracy has been 72+ on each practice but the morning session literally felt like nothing we’ve ever practiced. It was ridiculously difficult

HairySmokeball wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
westinghouse60 wrote:A lot of the questions/answer choices were just worded very differently than I'd seen on Themis.


I definitely remember a few questions where I knew what rule they were talking about, but it definitely wasn't a name I'd seen Themis use for it.

I thought the Themis practice exams were much harder, though. The real thing had a lot of super-easy questions along the lines of "Federal question jurisdiction requires that the complaint present what kind of question?" that just didn't appear in the Themis exams.


Super easy? Blah...I think there were about 10 questions that I would have said were "super easy"...the rest looked like something along these lines (borrowed from Reddit)

Plaintiff, a resident of state X who attended college in state Y and is registered to vote in state X, received his law degree from a private university in state X. Plaintiff’s well plead complaint alleges that he paid several thousand dollars for a bar review course from Defendant, a crumbum incorporated in state Y who engages in business in several other states. Plaintiff is the representative of a class of 30,000 similarly situated jabronies domiciled in all states in which Defendant does business. On May 1, Defendant stepped on Plaintiff’s sneakers. Assume that the forum state’s law bars recovery. What is the best argument Plaintiff can not not make to not win or lose his case?

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby lemondhead » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:48 am

Ninamir wrote:Don’t worry too much. I graduated 4 years prior to finally sitting for the bar. I sat for the bar last July 2018. I was working full time as well and had to basically study and relearn everything after having been out of law school for 4 years. I took no time off of work except the Friday and Monday before the exam. I was scoring similar to you on the practice exams as well. Most of my scores were in the low 60s and occasionally I’ll get some in the 70s, but it wasn’t consistent. On the first day of the exam I freaked out and missed an ENTIRE mpt question completely. That caused me to mentally freak out the rest of the exam and the second day I missed 20 multiple choice questions, and timing had never been an issue for me before. I knew it was going to be impossible for me to pass having missed so much and it was true I had failed it by 5 points. I took it again in February, but this time I didn’t get to open a book due to work an family issues that took place around the same time. The only studying I got in for February was the week before the exam, and the only day I took off of work was the Monday before the exam. Basically I was relying on the knowledge I had learned 6 months prior to pass the February exam and again I had zero expectation of passing. I even called to see if I can cancel the exam, but they said I’d lose my money. So basically I showed up for the heck of it and PASSED with a 277... had I not psyched myself out the first time an missed so many questions I probably would’ve passed then too... so don’t worry too much you probably did much better than you think you did, and most likely will be fine :)

lemondhead wrote:
lolabear727 wrote:
westinghouse60 wrote:Strategically procrastinating so that everything is just now being put in my brain


Same. Took this week off from work to study and I've done about 5 solid hours... I feel like I do better as a crunch test taker anyhow. Barred in another state. So it's not my first go. I'm glad I'm not the only one.


Seconding. I graduated a few years ago, never sat. I work full-time so I started back in March. May have been a little early, as I got burned out hard in June and early July.

I'm sitting at about 75% course completion. 1500 MBE with a 60% average (so all of you scoring higher, take heart). Also did the first three practice exams, so another 300 MBE. Did a bunch of essays and 10 or so MPT. I'm just kinda done at this point; after 4.5 months, I'm just ready for whatever happens.

So, 60% average on all MBE, and 131/200 on my simulated. Graded essays were harsh. Threes and fours, one five, and really solid MPT. I didn't do the last two. Latest MBE sets have been between 60-80%, so kinda all over. I keep talking myself out of answers because I'm exception-hunting, so I may quit MBEs at this point.

My jurisdiction has a pass score in the high 260s. Seperac estimates a pass, but I graduated so long ago now that I'm unsure. I wish I had done more than 1500 MBE and that my average was over 60%.

I wish I hadn't hit a wall, but I couldn't pull 60+ hour weeks anymore. I took the last week off work and have only managed 3-5 hours a day, all MBE-heavy. I think tomorrow I'm gonna work on MEE and call it.

If anyone has any encouragement, I'd appreciate it. I'll be counting on that 15-20 point scaled bump. Good luck, all. If anyone has any last minute tips, let me know. We're almost done.


Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you passed! That's awesome you were able to do it mostly from memory.

I need a 276 where I'm at, so I'll hope for the best.

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westinghouse60

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby westinghouse60 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:16 pm

I actually thought the afternoon session was harder FWIW. I know there are different test booklets, but does everyone get the same set of questions in the morning/afternoon? Or is it reversed for anyone? I would assume it's the same...

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby barryzee » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:48 pm

I found the exam substantially easier than the Themis practice exams (I scored a little above average on them but didn't blow the doors off), for almost the sole reason that there were more questions that I thought would fall in the easy to very easy portion of the Themis grading scale. Several of these also required much less work to get to that answer than the ones routinely given by Themis. And it doesn't take many sure things before getting in safe range becomes pretty plausible, especially if you're good at knocking out bad answer choices. Hit 1.000 on 30% of the questions and you can basically go 0.500 for the remainder and have a very good shot of passing. You might feel like shit batting .500 on those questions but that's right in the passing range if you banked that 30%. That to me was the difference between the practice exams and the real thing.

There were also far fewer tortured questions in terms of shifting parts and the like. Some felt very hard on fine points of law that I just didn't know, but without the linguistic tricks etc. to confuse. And some felt like equators for the sole reason that they appeared to be re-testing a somewhat minor rule within the same exam(probably a nice control to test the same basic issue on the exam).

For future test takers, I would emphasize that the prep companies really do a number on you even if you are in a very safe position of passing. I won't know until I see my score, and I had quite a few questions where I was flummoxed, but I'll be pretty surprised if I failed. By contrast, the simulated MBE and Practice Exam #4 sure made things feel closer than they were in terms of whether I had gotten to the point of "minimum competency." Themis also seemed to get me to the point of feeling as though I wasn't progressing. But come exam day I basically felt like I could see and experience the "bump" in real time. The other thing I realize in retrospect is why some people might do worse by emphasizing the trees at the expense of the forest. To my eye the game isn't won or lost on the small rules that you're seeing in mixed question set #17, the big concepts will carry most of your exam.

Anyways, my confidence seems to be anomaly in relation to smart and well prepared people I speak to, but I think I lot of people don't appreciate how much of the game is just knocking down the safe questions so that treading water on the remainder is sufficient.
Last edited by barryzee on Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby barryzee » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:54 pm

westinghouse60 wrote:I actually thought the afternoon session was harder FWIW. I know there are different test booklets, but does everyone get the same set of questions in the morning/afternoon? Or is it reversed for anyone? I would assume it's the same...


I assume it's the same so people don't discover answers over lunch. I found the pm a hair easier, but it seemed to test my strengths more than the am. It might just be a matter of distribution of subjects or subtopics.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby other guy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:45 pm

Who all is getting nervous?
This guy is!

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby wyoming92 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:06 pm

Passed! Don’t know how with how little prepared I felt for Florida’s Multiple Choice, but I passed.

Timing-wise I used all my time for Florida essays (with 10 minutes of formatting and making it “pretty” and easy to read), left 40 minutes early on Florida multiple choice, MBE morning I left with an hour to spare, and MBE afternoon I left with 1.5 hours to spare. I either knew it or I didn’t and chose between two answers.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby other guy » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:02 pm

Passes Alabama
MBE 140
MEE/MPT 134

Finished 92 percent of Themis- but basically hit submit on all the essays
Did do all the MBEs finished at 66 percent(by the end you’ve seen some
Of the questions)

All grades essays and MPT- 2/6
MBE 1- 28/45 —62 percent
MBE 2 32/55 — 58 percent
MBE PRACTICE morning — 64/100
MBE practice PM— 66/100

MBE Final— 63/100

—————

I got burned out by the end. Totally was playing 4-6 hours of video games every day by the end. But I passed!

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby CR2019 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:22 pm

Passed in a UBE JX thank the lord. Finished 100% of the course but definitely phoned in some essays/MPTs. Ended up doing around 2,300 MBE questions with a 70%. Cut it a little bit closer than I would have preferred but who cares I don't have to take that damn thing ever again.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby HairySmokeball » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:08 pm

Thought I would drop in and post my stats on Themis. As a review, I failed in February after not really studying AT ALL. Weakness was most certainly the MBE as I did really well on essays. Well, this time around, I studied quite a bit more, but didn't kill myself. Most days were 5-6 hours of studying and I slacked off more than I probably should have. Nonetheless, passed with a 141 MBE; I don't know the essay score (they only release that and total score if you fail). Also, even though Themis doesn't cover my state, so many people I know used it that I thought it was the way to go for the MBE and I much preferred it to Kaplan. Anyway, here are my stats:

PQ: 1350
Test Q's: 445
TOTAL: 1795 Overall: 57% Correct

Exam Scores:
PE 1 49
PE 3 SKIP
PE 3 AM 59
PE 3 PM 55
PE 4 55
NCBE 1 66 (much higher and last exam I took. Quite representative of my actual score)

By Subject:

Civ Pro 50% 62/125
Con 50% 95/190
K's 56% 129/230
Crim Law 63% 69/109
Crim Pro 61% 65/106
Evidence 52% 65/124
Prop 58% 136/235
Torts 61% 142/231

I didn't track completion % because I didn't do any MPTs or state specific essays/review stuff with Themis.

Oh yes, the Seperac calculator guessed my score would have been 119. Thankfully, that was off.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby RioGrandeLaw » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:43 pm

Passed Illinois.

Total Score (UBE) 296
MBE Scaled 148.5
Written Scaled 147.2

God...that was really one of the worst experiences of my life.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby lemondhead » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:52 pm

Passed Colorado. Needed a 276.

MBE Scaled = 153.7
Written Scaled = 142.3
Total UBE = 296

Admission on hold til after I get an MPRE score (the state I went to school in didn't require it, so I never took it) and then a C&F inquiry panel. Regardless, I'm on the moon.

I want to quickly tell people to keep their heads up. I was near the bottom of my class at a regional T1, and I've been out of school for four years. I had some personal issues in law school and my 20s that I let hold me back. Now that I'm older and wiser, I decided to give this thing a shot. I work full time and studied around 300 hours. I firmly believe that, if you put in the work, you'll succeed on this test. I was not the smartest in my class, I didn't go to a T14. Hell, I had people on TLS tell me to drop out as a 1L. But, four years after graduating, I'm one major step closer to a license.

Put in the hours and trust that you were smart enough to get into that exam room, let your skills carry you through. Congrats to all those who passed, and those who didn't, get ready to go again. You can do it.

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Dcc617

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Dcc617 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:11 pm

Passed Illinois with a 337 UBE (168.5 on MBE, 168.2 on MEE).

I completed like 83% of themis and was crushing mixed sets by the end. Definitely overstudied and wish I had taken more time to chill. But I passed, which is what really matters.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby ukj2019 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:23 pm

Passed Kentucky. Posting for all those Kentucky takers who wonder how the Kentucky essay graders stack up to bar prep graders. I never found another Kentucky breakdown online, so hopefully this will help ease the minds of posterity.

Kentucky grades essays differently than the MEE. I worried my ass off about getting a 75% on the bar essays when I never hit 75% on any essay with Themis. Kentucky does not release exact scores.

Themis results were:

Final Completion Percentage: 60.9%
I took four practice MPTs legitimately and skimmed through the other samples.
I took 45 essays legitimately and read the prompts and sample answers for many other essays.
I answered 1180 MBE questions and got 848 correct. (72%)
I legitimately read all the outlines five times and took my own notes.
I legitimately completed all the video lectures except MBE reviews and workshops.
I made my own flashcards for a lot of the elements and factor tests that I couldn't naturally regurgitate, especially First Amendment stuff (too bad no First Amendment questions showed up on the exam). From these flashcards, I lectured out loud to a pretend audience about each topic, reciting the rule on the flashcard and anything else I had to say about the topic.
I also purchased the JD Advising MEE one-sheets, though I don't really feel like they helped too much in Kentucky since only three of the essays were MEE essays now that the MPT has been incorporated.

Graded essays (My Score vs. Avg. Score):
1- 48 vs 46
2- 69 vs 48
3- 59 vs 45
4- 72 vs 57
5- 66 vs 54 (MPT)
6- 62 vs 57
7- 61 vs 49
8- not taken vs 44

Moral of my story is that you shouldn't worry in Kentucky if you're not hitting 75% with the essay graders. Of course, on the other hand, I have no way of knowing how close to 75% I was. What I kept reassuring myself of was that 90+% of people pass with Themis. Since I was beating the average score, even though it was less than 75%, I thought that I must be doing better than the average Themis student who is going to pass the bar.

Stop reading now if you're sensitive to humble-bragging.

[+] Spoiler
Some people find it helpful to know how their lifestyle and class standing compares so that they get a fuller picture of how bar prep actually went for the above results.
I worked 35+ hours each week during bar prep and have a small child. All my studying was done on nights and weekends. I took one week off of work immediately before the bar to really, fully prep.
I finished in the top 10% at UK.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby akjim101 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:24 am

Passed Minnesota with a 300. Don't know breakdown because it was not provided. Themis stats are as follows:

Percent Completed - 100%
Number of MBE Qs Done - 2200
Percent Correct on MBE - 63%
Graded Essays - 4/6 on 5 essays, 5/6 on 2 essays, 3/6 on MPT

Stats about Me:

Law School - T1
Class Ranking - Median
Undergrad Major - STEM

Details about my study plan:

- studied 5 days a week, 8 hours each day (had to adjust schedule due to having a child)
- outlined most essays (towards the end started just reading the fact pattern and sample answers), only wrote out graded ones
- did not do any of the MPTs other than the graded one
- did not use any additional study materials

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Jcanqueen12 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:06 pm

I passed NY guys! Jamaican attorney, without LLM or JD, just themis LLM advantage program and adaptibar! Listen it can be done! 153 MBE!



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