Themis July 2019

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Anon2468

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Anon2468 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:40 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
letsplayball wrote:So are the themis questions designed to be ridiculously hard to teach minor point that might come up in the bar?


Partially. But remember that the ridiculously hard questions that turn on minor points are usually teaching an exception to the broader rule. So even if you get the question wrong, you're reinforcing the underlying rule. The particular exception might not show up on the exam, but the rule probably will.


My friend who took the bar last summer said that the bar questions were significantly easier than the Themis questions and that there were way more freebies.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Anon2468 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:52 pm

So if you go through all of the MEE essay questions Themis offers, is there likely to be significant overlap on the real thing?

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby chickennuggets » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:20 pm

What outlines are people using to memorize the rule statements for the MEE? For example, are you using the MEE Final Review Outlines or the MEE Workshop handouts, etc? I want to focus on just 1 outline per subject since they're all so different.

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Dcc617

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Dcc617 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:18 pm

I've been doing the MEE workshop handouts just because there's no way I'm going to remember all of the lecture outlines for what is likely a tiny return.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby fan1430 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:17 am

How far is everyone in the Themis program? What all have you skipped so far? If anything.

I'm currently at 67.9 percent. I have skipped writing out 3 of the MPTS they have assigned. On the official course schedule I'm about a half day behind. Although, I have been studying in Asia, so technically i'll get that half day back when I get back to the USA.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Dunnkirk85 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:45 am

fan1430 wrote:How far is everyone in the Themis program? What all have you skipped so far? If anything.

I'm currently at 67.9 percent. I have skipped writing out 3 of the MPTS they have assigned. On the official course schedule I'm about a half day behind. Although, I have been studying in Asia, so technically i'll get that half day back when I get back to the USA.



At about 71% and haven't skipped anything except Lisa Tucker explanations for questions I get right. Also probably should have been spending more time reviewing the essays in the beginning of the course. A little ahead of the PDF schedule.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby AussieAustin » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:19 am

Dunnkirk85 wrote:
fan1430 wrote:How far is everyone in the Themis program? What all have you skipped so far? If anything.

I'm currently at 67.9 percent. I have skipped writing out 3 of the MPTS they have assigned. On the official course schedule I'm about a half day behind. Although, I have been studying in Asia, so technically i'll get that half day back when I get back to the USA.



At about 71% and haven't skipped anything except Lisa Tucker explanations for questions I get right. Also probably should have been spending more time reviewing the essays in the beginning of the course. A little ahead of the PDF schedule.


I’m at 68% and haven’t skipped anything. I have been putting off doing an MPT since i know I’ll be doing one tomorrow in my practice exam. I’m starting to get behind the schedule because I need more time to work on essays. Trying to keep on pace with the lecture schedule didn’t leave much time for memorizing all the Texas essay subjects. I feel Like I need to do some serious memorizing. Really struggling with commercial paper and secured transactions. Sigh.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby letsplayball » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:51 pm

Just did the mbe primer #2.... welp

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Dcc617

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Dcc617 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:57 pm

letsplayball wrote:Just did the mbe primer #2.... welp


For what it's worth, I scored like a 50 on the primer, a 76 on the actual test and have gotten above 70 on stuff since.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby HairySmokeball » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 pm

letsplayball wrote:Just did the mbe primer #2.... welp


Personally, I straight up ignored the Primer #2 after the rudeness that was Primer #1. I think it's designed to make you think you are stupid and to "prime" any candidates that have been meeting goals and thus wanting to slack off.

Quick question on the mixed sets. I completed most of the assigned PQs for the individual subjects except for civ pro and evidence. For planning purposes, I am thinking of skipping those and moving into the mixed sets only...but how are those question banks "built"? Are they the same for everyone or are they tailored for the areas that are shown as weak? I would like to complete as many as the mixed sets as I can but don't want to miss any important/easy points that might be gleaned from the subject specific questions.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby AussieAustin » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:31 pm

HairySmokeball wrote:
letsplayball wrote:Just did the mbe primer #2.... welp


Personally, I straight up ignored the Primer #2 after the rudeness that was Primer #1. I think it's designed to make you think you are stupid and to "prime" any candidates that have been meeting goals and thus wanting to slack off.

Quick question on the mixed sets. I completed most of the assigned PQs for the individual subjects except for civ pro and evidence. For planning purposes, I am thinking of skipping those and moving into the mixed sets only...but how are those question banks "built"? Are they the same for everyone or are they tailored for the areas that are shown as weak? I would like to complete as many as the mixed sets as I can but don't want to miss any important/easy points that might be gleaned from the subject specific questions.


I’m not actually sure if the mixed sets are the same for everyone. I do know though that questions are repeated. I’ve had quite a few repeat questions. I don’t think they’re even necessarily ones I’ve gotten wrong in the past. I found the individual question sets got harder so it could be worth doing them. But if you don’t, the questions will probably find their way into the mixed sets.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby JoeSeperac » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:33 pm

letsplayball wrote:Ok I had no idea about the scaling (i.e. they just add points to your score lol). Giving me hope!

This calculator will give you the most realistic idea of how your % correct on the MBE will translate into a particular scaled MBE score:

https://seperac.com/zcalc-mbe-febjuly.php

For example, an MBE % corrrect of 60% would have resulted in a scaled MBE score of 139.5 in J18 versus a 129.5 in J02. To smooth the results, I report an average of all the scales based on Feb/July administrations. For example, with an MBE % correct of 60%, the average scaled MBE score (based on the 8 different July scales) is 133. So if you are at 60% overall with representative practice questions, expect somewhere around 133 but hope for 140.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Necho2 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:39 pm

Dcc617 wrote:
letsplayball wrote:Just did the mbe primer #2.... welp


For what it's worth, I scored like a 50 on the primer, a 76 on the actual test and have gotten above 70 on stuff since.

This is reassuring. I was at 69% overall (nice, I know) and just did primer #2 and got knocked down to the average of 58%. Just seemed like a ton of tough, convoluted questions, a couple of which seem as I review to have been either really vague or arguably just plain wrong.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby other guy » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:08 pm

Just finished Mixed PQS
Set 1--> 69 percent (34 questions)
Set 2 --> 79 percent (34 questions)
Set 3 --> 76 percent (50 questions)
Mixed Set of 100 69 percent (100 questions)
Set 4 --> 76 percent (50 questions)

I said that to say, are these sets getting harder in difficulty? This is definitely a grind.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby HairySmokeball » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:29 pm

other guy wrote:Just finished Mixed PQS
Set 1--> 69 percent (34 questions)
Set 2 --> 79 percent (34 questions)
Set 3 --> 76 percent (50 questions)
Mixed Set of 100 69 percent (100 questions)
Set 4 --> 76 percent (50 questions)

I said that to say, are these sets getting harder in difficulty? This is definitely a grind.


Holy crap..did you do all of those in a day? If so, then that is awesome. Looks like your scores are pretty darn good, though.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby other guy » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:24 pm

HairySmokeball wrote:
other guy wrote:Just finished Mixed PQS
Set 1--> 69 percent (34 questions)
Set 2 --> 79 percent (34 questions)
Set 3 --> 76 percent (50 questions)
Mixed Set of 100 69 percent (100 questions)
Set 4 --> 76 percent (50 questions)

I said that to say, are these sets getting harder in difficulty? This is definitely a grind.


Holy crap..did you do all of those in a day? If so, then that is awesome. Looks like your scores are pretty darn good, though.



I did those in the last week.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby HairySmokeball » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:46 pm

other guy wrote:
HairySmokeball wrote:
other guy wrote:Just finished Mixed PQS
Set 1--> 69 percent (34 questions)
Set 2 --> 79 percent (34 questions)
Set 3 --> 76 percent (50 questions)
Mixed Set of 100 69 percent (100 questions)
Set 4 --> 76 percent (50 questions)

I said that to say, are these sets getting harder in difficulty? This is definitely a grind.


Holy crap..did you do all of those in a day? If so, then that is awesome. Looks like your scores are pretty darn good, though.



I did those in the last week.


Oh, thank goodness. I was really, REALLY feeling like a loser!!!

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby RioGrandeLaw » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:00 am

Necho2 wrote:This is reassuring. I was at 69% overall (nice, I know) and just did primer #2 and got knocked down to the average of 58%. Just seemed like a ton of tough, convoluted questions, a couple of which seem as I review to have been either really vague or arguably just plain wrong.



I'm convinced the primers are meant to mind-fuck us into grinding like slave labor. I also believe (ok, hope and pray) that the actual test can't be as hard as the bar prep programs. You can see that a lot of the practice test/primer questions when you click on the individual answers are listed as "hard" with fewer than 25% of takers getting them right, and some of them the percent who guessed correct is in the single digits. There's just no way 75% of people can pass the bar exam with questions like those. Also, while I've completely blown some essays, my gut feeling is that if you hit the main issues, you're going to get at least a 3 (or 50%) grade. Graders have said that the model answers are actually off the scale, and not a 6/100% score.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby arbarprep » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:19 am

I've been noticing that a lot of the PQs don't share the same distribution as the actual MBE. For example PQ 6 has 13 crim/crim pro questions (approx. 26%), while the actual % of crim/crim pro on the bar should be closer to 14% (1/7). So for people who are strong in crim/crim pro, I think the scores are skewed quite a bit higher than they should be. I wish Themis would actually give proper distribution like the 100 question PQ instead of whatever they are doing.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby RioGrandeLaw » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:27 am

AussieAustin wrote:
I’m at 68% and haven’t skipped anything. I have been putting off doing an MPT since i know I’ll be doing one tomorrow in my practice exam. I’m starting to get behind the schedule because I need more time to work on essays. Trying to keep on pace with the lecture schedule didn’t leave much time for memorizing all the Texas essay subjects. I feel Like I need to do some serious memorizing. Really struggling with commercial paper and secured transactions. Sigh.


I wouldn't blow off the MPT. It's an area where you can pick up a butt load of points without having to jam endless facts and rules into your brain, but only if you understand what they want and how to analyze it. That said, if you've worked as a law clerk, the MPT is actually not too bad since the main tasks they test on are an objective memo and persuasive brief. I've worked for several years as a law clerk drafting motions and memos, so that stuff is second nature. One piece of advice I got though was to stick to IRAC like glue. Also, you'll probably find that the hardest part of the MPT is figuring out a system to link up all the facts with all the rules in the library. The MPT video guy on Themis actually has a lot of good tips, in my opinion. One thing I've done is put a F+ or F- next to facts that help or hurt (esp. important in persuasive docs) and L+ or L- next to rules that are helpful or harmful to your argument. I also circle the court and the dates for all the cases so I can keep them straight, since you may need to identify what's been overruled or superseded. Plus, pay close attention to the footnotes- I think they include them because they figure test takers will say "eh, it's a footnote, so it can't be that important" just to trip you up.

If you haven't worked as a law clerk, I would do ALL the exercises. Be aware that there are some weird MPTs they can throw at you, like a demand letter, which I have never done, and also a bench memo, a closing argument, a complaint, etc. These I think are especially important to go over at least to be familiar with what they look like and the grading sheets. https://www.jdadvising.com/mpt-formats- ... -type-mpt/

I'm blowing off Conflict of Laws because it's rarely tested, and even then only in combo with something else, and also Trusts, because they tested Trusts the last 2 exams, and they tend to alternate between wills and trusts. So, I think there is zero chance of Trusts showing up (but I took wills and trusts last year so it's not totally unfamiliar). I will listen to the CoL lecture a day or two before the test, but I'm not going to try and memorize any of it. I'm a low bandwidth guy, and this whole bar prep thing has already fried my circuits.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby AussieAustin » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:17 am

arbarprep wrote:I've been noticing that a lot of the PQs don't share the same distribution as the actual MBE. For example PQ 6 has 13 crim/crim pro questions (approx. 26%), while the actual % of crim/crim pro on the bar should be closer to 14% (1/7). So for people who are strong in crim/crim pro, I think the scores are skewed quite a bit higher than they should be. I wish Themis would actually give proper distribution like the 100 question PQ instead of whatever they are doing.


I've noticed this too, but it seems that they mix it up with each set. Sometimes there will be more crim subjects and other times it will be something else. The questions are also repeating which I find a little annoying because I recognize the question and then just try and remember the answer without properly analyzing the question.

For some reason, I was so good at Crim law and Pro during the individual practice sets, but now I'm barely getting a question right. Not sure what's going on! Is anyone else finding that their results are so inconsistent? One minute I'm doing great with one subject, then the next I seem to be struggling. I think my brain is perhaps overloaded!

AussieAustin

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby AussieAustin » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:19 am

RioGrandeLaw wrote:
AussieAustin wrote:
I’m at 68% and haven’t skipped anything. I have been putting off doing an MPT since i know I’ll be doing one tomorrow in my practice exam. I’m starting to get behind the schedule because I need more time to work on essays. Trying to keep on pace with the lecture schedule didn’t leave much time for memorizing all the Texas essay subjects. I feel Like I need to do some serious memorizing. Really struggling with commercial paper and secured transactions. Sigh.


I wouldn't blow off the MPT. It's an area where you can pick up a butt load of points without having to jam endless facts and rules into your brain, but only if you understand what they want and how to analyze it. That said, if you've worked as a law clerk, the MPT is actually not too bad since the main tasks they test on are an objective memo and persuasive brief. I've worked for several years as a law clerk drafting motions and memos, so that stuff is second nature. One piece of advice I got though was to stick to IRAC like glue. Also, you'll probably find that the hardest part of the MPT is figuring out a system to link up all the facts with all the rules in the library. The MPT video guy on Themis actually has a lot of good tips, in my opinion. One thing I've done is put a F+ or F- next to facts that help or hurt (esp. important in persuasive docs) and L+ or L- next to rules that are helpful or harmful to your argument. I also circle the court and the dates for all the cases so I can keep them straight, since you may need to identify what's been overruled or superseded. Plus, pay close attention to the footnotes- I think they include them because they figure test takers will say "eh, it's a footnote, so it can't be that important" just to trip you up.

If you haven't worked as a law clerk, I would do ALL the exercises. Be aware that there are some weird MPTs they can throw at you, like a demand letter, which I have never done, and also a bench memo, a closing argument, a complaint, etc. These I think are especially important to go over at least to be familiar with what they look like and the grading sheets. https://www.jdadvising.com/mpt-formats- ... -type-mpt/

I'm blowing off Conflict of Laws because it's rarely tested, and even then only in combo with something else, and also Trusts, because they tested Trusts the last 2 exams, and they tend to alternate between wills and trusts. So, I think there is zero chance of Trusts showing up (but I took wills and trusts last year so it's not totally unfamiliar). I will listen to the CoL lecture a day or two before the test, but I'm not going to try and memorize any of it. I'm a low bandwidth guy, and this whole bar prep thing has already fried my circuits.


Yeah, I'm not blowing it off completely. I've already done multiple different practice ones, so wanted to concentrate on learning some essay materials. Since I'm doing Texas, I can't afford to skip learning for one because most are tested. It's a bit different to other states.

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby HairySmokeball » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:54 am

RioGrandeLaw wrote:
Necho2 wrote: I also believe (ok, hope and pray) that the actual test can't be as hard as the bar prep programs. You can see that a lot of the practice test/primer questions when you click on the individual answers are listed as "hard" with fewer than 25% of takers getting them right, and some of them the percent who guessed correct is in the single digits. There's just no way 75% of people can pass the bar exam with questions like those.


As much as it sucks, this is a tried and true method. Prior to LS, I spent 20+ years in the adult learning field as an instructor, a courseware writer/evaluator and eventually running a consulting business that did nothing but develop learning systems for various organizations. The basic premise is that if you want someone to perform at say a level 5 (on a scale of 10), you teach as close as you can to a 9 or 10 and with an effective program, 85% of course graduates will perform at a 7 or higher; giving a little cushion. If you delivered a product that taught at the level of 5, then it would not be effective. Themis employs several tactics that work (given good pass rates) so although as a student, it sucks...but trust the system...it works.

cavalier1138

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:42 pm

How. 'Bout. Them. LLCs?

(Keeping this vague for everyone who hasn't done the simulated MEE yet.)

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Re: Themis July 2019

Postby Dunnkirk85 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:16 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:How. 'Bout. Them. LLCs?

(Keeping this vague for everyone who hasn't done the simulated MEE yet.)


That was brutal.



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