2019 July California Bar

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Ciedam08

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby Ciedam08 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:25 pm

Animal_Activist wrote:
bigpete777 wrote:Are we allowed to inadvertently discuss specific MBE questions?


I don't know. Was the State Bar of California allowed to "inadvertently" send some law schools access to the essay topics and then attempt to remedy its action by distributing them to us 2 days prior to the exam? :lol:


:D I don’t see why not?! Everyone took it the same day so what’s the harm?!

onemoretimenow

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby onemoretimenow » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:42 pm

pjmika wrote:I think I may have really fucked up on the MPT :(
I got confused about which evidence testimonies we were supposed to be discussing... Was it the 3 testimonies (in that first fact memo) or was it the 3 specific incidents (discussed in the pretrial hearin)g. I started off talking about the first 3, then realized it was probably about the second 3 and barely had time to rewrite.
Can someone please verify this for my sanity? :(


I wrote about the three specific incidents from the hearing. I felt that the provided case law and fact patterns in the cases directly applied for IRAC to those three incidents. Maybe it's just me, but I did not see how the other memo was relevant to the requested briefing, other than as a red herring to distract.

yespasscbx

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby yespasscbx » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:35 pm

Ciedam08 wrote:
Animal_Activist wrote:
bigpete777 wrote:Are we allowed to inadvertently discuss specific MBE questions?


I don't know. Was the State Bar of California allowed to "inadvertently" send some law schools access to the essay topics and then attempt to remedy its action by distributing them to us 2 days prior to the exam? :lol:


:D I don’t see why not?! Everyone took it the same day so what’s the harm?!


Because an unknown number of questions are recycled, discussing them benefits all future exam takers. :D

Ciedam08

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby Ciedam08 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:33 pm

yespasscbx wrote:
Ciedam08 wrote:
Animal_Activist wrote:
bigpete777 wrote:Are we allowed to inadvertently discuss specific MBE questions?


I don't know. Was the State Bar of California allowed to "inadvertently" send some law schools access to the essay topics and then attempt to remedy its action by distributing them to us 2 days prior to the exam? :lol:


:D I don’t see why not?! Everyone took it the same day so what’s the harm?!


Because an unknown number of questions are recycled, discussing them benefits all future exam takers. :D


Ohhh I see. I thought none of them were recycled. Makes sense.

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a male human

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:33 pm

2807 wrote:Old timer here.

Back in it for a friend taking this test.

Can anyone give some direction on Remedy/Con Law ?

I saw a few posts/concerns already, but wondering if anyone new has some advice on these two together?

You think this is a remedy that is unconcstutnoial ?

Or a constitutional remedy for an alleged government (or private) wrong? (ie: all this current immigration stuff, or funding for the wall ..?)
Or maybe like the bakery that refuses to make a cake for a protected class...?

Hmmm... yep.

Any thoughts?

thanks folks

Good luck to you all.

A MALE HUMAN ?? WHERE ARE YOU ol Buddy !?


Yo I totally zoned out! My notifications weren't working :oops:

Good to see you again, old timer.

jc9812

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby jc9812 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:04 pm

I did the same thing this person did:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=302300

And accidentally wrote my name on the CPT.

I did not even think about and I do not recall them saying not to during the instructions, but it seems like an obviously bad idea given that it's blind graded. Can anyone point me to somewhere in the rules that addresses this, or does anyone know if my score will be thrown out? I will be in touch with the bar but I cannot seem to find anything in the rules online.

jc9812

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby jc9812 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:13 pm

.

belmont123

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby belmont123 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:57 pm

a male human wrote:
2807 wrote:Old timer here.

Back in it for a friend taking this test.

Can anyone give some direction on Remedy/Con Law ?

I saw a few posts/concerns already, but wondering if anyone new has some advice on these two together?

You think this is a remedy that is unconcstutnoial ?

Or a constitutional remedy for an alleged government (or private) wrong? (ie: all this current immigration stuff, or funding for the wall ..?)
Or maybe like the bakery that refuses to make a cake for a protected class...?

Hmmm... yep.

Any thoughts?

thanks folks

Good luck to you all.

A MALE HUMAN ?? WHERE ARE YOU ol Buddy !?


Yo I totally zoned out! My notifications weren't working :oops:

Good to see you again, old timer.



This makes me genuinely happy.

ReasonablePersonSSC

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby ReasonablePersonSSC » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:11 pm

jc9812 wrote:I did the same thing this person did:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=302300

And accidentally wrote my name on the CPT.

I did not even think about and I do not recall them saying not to during the instructions, but it seems like an obviously bad idea given that it's blind graded. Can anyone point me to somewhere in the rules that addresses this, or does anyone know if my score will be thrown out? I will be in touch with the bar but I cannot seem to find anything in the rules online.


Through Google I found one state (Georgia) that specifically instructs examinees to not write their name on essays or performance test, but they did not indicate the penalty for doing so. I can not find an equivalent instruction for the national MPT or the Cali PT.

Bingo_Bongo

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby Bingo_Bongo » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:20 pm

jc9812 wrote:I did the same thing this person did:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=302300

And accidentally wrote my name on the CPT.

I did not even think about and I do not recall them saying not to during the instructions, but it seems like an obviously bad idea given that it's blind graded. Can anyone point me to somewhere in the rules that addresses this, or does anyone know if my score will be thrown out? I will be in touch with the bar but I cannot seem to find anything in the rules online.


I'm guessing you put your actual name in the memo lines instead of just writing "applicant" or something generic?

Completely throwing out the essay seems harsh (even for CA bar standards), but I don't know. Following directions is a big part of the PT, so I would absolutely expect some sort of grade deduction. How much, I have no clue.

If I were in charge of bar grading, I'd probably instruct the graders to redact identifying information if they notice it, and then send it to somebody else to grade after making the redactions. But, that's just what I would do.

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perfunctory

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby perfunctory » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:04 pm

Would they take points off? It would be not following the exam's instructions, not the instructions of the PT.

jc9812

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby jc9812 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:26 pm

Bingo_Bongo wrote:
jc9812 wrote:I did the same thing this person did:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=302300

And accidentally wrote my name on the CPT.

I did not even think about and I do not recall them saying not to during the instructions, but it seems like an obviously bad idea given that it's blind graded. Can anyone point me to somewhere in the rules that addresses this, or does anyone know if my score will be thrown out? I will be in touch with the bar but I cannot seem to find anything in the rules online.


I'm guessing you put your actual name in the memo lines instead of just writing "applicant" or something generic?

Completely throwing out the essay seems harsh (even for CA bar standards), but I don't know. Following directions is a big part of the PT, so I would absolutely expect some sort of grade deduction. How much, I have no clue.

If I were in charge of bar grading, I'd probably instruct the graders to redact identifying information if they notice it, and then send it to somebody else to grade after making the redactions. But, that's just what I would do.


Right. Yeah I would be expect to be docked some points, I'm just hoping for a score that isn't zero.

jc9812

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby jc9812 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:27 pm

ReasonablePersonSSC wrote:
jc9812 wrote:I did the same thing this person did:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=302300

And accidentally wrote my name on the CPT.

I did not even think about and I do not recall them saying not to during the instructions, but it seems like an obviously bad idea given that it's blind graded. Can anyone point me to somewhere in the rules that addresses this, or does anyone know if my score will be thrown out? I will be in touch with the bar but I cannot seem to find anything in the rules online.


Through Google I found one state (Georgia) that specifically instructs examinees to not write their name on essays or performance test, but they did not indicate the penalty for doing so. I can not find an equivalent instruction for the national MPT or the Cali PT.


Thanks, I can't either, but I'll contact the bar.

Bingo_Bongo

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby Bingo_Bongo » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:29 pm

perfunctory wrote:Would they take points off? It would be not following the exam's instructions, not the instructions of the PT.


Technically, the memo giving instructions is always addressed to "applicant", so you could infer that's supposed to be your name, per the PT instructions. Just like you're supposed to be practicing in the State of Pacifica, or whatever fake state they're using now.

When I took the bar, they also docked 10 points total from your essays if they weren't uploaded by the deadline. To me, this seems similar enough to that I could see them taking 5 points off the final score (bringing you down to a 60 if you got a 65, or something) if they had to redact your essay and resubmit it for grading.

But, I think a zero would be a little too harsh a punishment, personally. A zero on the PT would pretty much cause most applicants who made that mistake to fail the entire bar. I don't think messing one little thing up should result in you having to retake the bar. But, again, that's just me.

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perfunctory

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby perfunctory » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:50 pm

so if i put "to: partner" instead of "cecila lenox, esq." they would take points off? but if you say they took points off for uploading late...can't argue with that. damn, surprising and upsetting for an exam where you need every point. going to lose my shit if this is what fails me.

belmont123

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby belmont123 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:36 am

perfunctory wrote:so if i put "to: partner" instead of "cecila lenox, esq." they would take points off? but if you say they took points off for uploading late...can't argue with that. damn, surprising and upsetting for an exam where you need every point. going to lose my shit if this is what fails me.



Well, I'm not sure who Cecilia Lenox is, I thought the PT was for Andrew Something.....?

Happy88

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby Happy88 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:31 am

Did anyone else feel that the MBE questions were much more different than Adaptibar?

Animal_Activist

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby Animal_Activist » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:32 pm

Happy88 wrote:Did anyone else feel that the MBE questions were much more different than Adaptibar?


I felt that a lot of them were similar but some had a little twist to a fact or had a tricky answer choice. Also, another set of the questions were annoyingly one whole page or completely different. The questions calculating values sucked and some of the civil procedure type questions were unique. But overall, it wasn't too bad. I guess my opinion may change if they fail me in November lol.

jrpreston

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby jrpreston » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:44 am

belmont123 wrote:
perfunctory wrote:so if i put "to: partner" instead of "cecila lenox, esq." they would take points off? but if you say they took points off for uploading late...can't argue with that. damn, surprising and upsetting for an exam where you need every point. going to lose my shit if this is what fails me.



Well, I'm not sure who Cecilia Lenox is, I thought the PT was for Andrew Something.....?


Yes. If I recall the associates name was Andrew Solomark.

Can anyone please confirm this? The name of the associate we were writing to? Was it a male or female...as others have indicated here...

Thank you

jrpreston

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby jrpreston » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:48 am

perfunctory wrote:Would they take points off? It would be not following the exam's instructions, not the instructions of the PT.


I can all but guarantee they will take off points. And judging by the way they grade, it won't be a little amount. I know that for the UBE's MPT they will start you off at 50% from the start. I know it's harsh, and I'm really sorry, but it's the fact of the matter.... Do you by any chance remember the name of the associate you were writing to?

Happy88

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby Happy88 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:36 am

Animal_Activist wrote:
Happy88 wrote:Did anyone else feel that the MBE questions were much more different than Adaptibar?


I felt that a lot of them were similar but some had a little twist to a fact or had a tricky answer choice. Also, another set of the questions were annoyingly one whole page or completely different. The questions calculating values sucked and some of the civil procedure type questions were unique. But overall, it wasn't too bad. I guess my opinion may change if they fail me in November lol.

True. I had a calculation question at like Q number 98, which I thought was just pure evil.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:19 am

jrpreston wrote:
perfunctory wrote:Would they take points off? It would be not following the exam's instructions, not the instructions of the PT.


I can all but guarantee they will take off points. And judging by the way they grade, it won't be a little amount. I know that for the UBE's MPT they will start you off at 50% from the start. I know it's harsh, and I'm really sorry, but it's the fact of the matter.... Do you by any chance remember the name of the associate you were writing to?


Thank goodness the CBX isn't the UBE because failing someone for a simple error that really doesn't have anything to do with their ability to practice law or write a memo is fantastically ridiculous. As the California Bar has recently shown .......everyone is subject to making bonehead "inadvertent mistakes."

I'd take it with a grain of salt that it's an auto fail for inadvertently writing your name on the memo. I'll Google it later but I'm positive that there are people who have made this mistake and ended up passing.

And it's kinda crazy to say something is the "fact of the matter" if someone has no idea if something applies to the OPs situation at all.

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perfunctory

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby perfunctory » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:45 am

jrpreston wrote:
perfunctory wrote:Would they take points off? It would be not following the exam's instructions, not the instructions of the PT.


I can all but guarantee they will take off points. And judging by the way they grade, it won't be a little amount. I know that for the UBE's MPT they will start you off at 50% from the start. I know it's harsh, and I'm really sorry, but it's the fact of the matter.... Do you by any chance remember the name of the associate you were writing to?


How do you know this? I am going to assume you have this on some sort of authority, or not because you just took the bar with me :?:

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby 9xSound » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:07 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
jrpreston wrote:
perfunctory wrote:Would they take points off? It would be not following the exam's instructions, not the instructions of the PT.


I can all but guarantee they will take off points. And judging by the way they grade, it won't be a little amount. I know that for the UBE's MPT they will start you off at 50% from the start. I know it's harsh, and I'm really sorry, but it's the fact of the matter.... Do you by any chance remember the name of the associate you were writing to?


Thank goodness the CBX isn't the UBE because failing someone for a simple error that really doesn't have anything to do with their ability to practice law or write a memo is fantastically ridiculous. As the California Bar has recently shown .......everyone is subject to making bonehead "inadvertent mistakes."

I'd take it with a grain of salt that it's an auto fail for inadvertently writing your name on the memo. I'll Google it later but I'm positive that there are people who have made this mistake and ended up passing.

And it's kinda crazy to say something is the "fact of the matter" if someone has no idea if something applies to the OPs situation at all.


A large component of the bar exam is whether the candidate demonstrates sufficient attention to detail that he or she can be safely turned loose with a license to practice law on an unsuspecting public. A candidate who so carelessly — or just plain stupidly — writes his or her real name on any portion of the test doesn't deserve a law license.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2019 July California Bar

Postby rcharter1978 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:48 pm

9xSound wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
jrpreston wrote:
perfunctory wrote:Would they take points off? It would be not following the exam's instructions, not the instructions of the PT.


I can all but guarantee they will take off points. And judging by the way they grade, it won't be a little amount. I know that for the UBE's MPT they will start you off at 50% from the start. I know it's harsh, and I'm really sorry, but it's the fact of the matter.... Do you by any chance remember the name of the associate you were writing to?


Thank goodness the CBX isn't the UBE because failing someone for a simple error that really doesn't have anything to do with their ability to practice law or write a memo is fantastically ridiculous. As the California Bar has recently shown .......everyone is subject to making bonehead "inadvertent mistakes."

I'd take it with a grain of salt that it's an auto fail for inadvertently writing your name on the memo. I'll Google it later but I'm positive that there are people who have made this mistake and ended up passing.

And it's kinda crazy to say something is the "fact of the matter" if someone has no idea if something applies to the OPs situation at all.


A large component of the bar exam is whether the candidate demonstrates sufficient attention to detail that he or she can be safely turned loose with a license to practice law on an unsuspecting public. A candidate who so carelessly — or just plain stupidly — writes his or her real name on any portion of the test doesn't deserve a law license.


That's an absolutely ridiculous and stupid thing to say. Seriously, how long have you been practicing law and you've never ever made a stupid or careless error? Never? Really? You are perfect all the time and ever even slightly careless in a stressful situation? Because what you say sounds like some nonsensical stupid bullshit some know it all first year law school student would say.

Good attorneys, even excellent attorneys make mistakes all the time, careless or otherwise. Many of them could and would tell you about them.

An unsuspecting public would be terrorized by someone who mistakenly put their name on a PT during the bar exam? GTFOH with that noise. I didn't put my name on my PTs but I would happily say that whoever thinks that THAT is a sign of a bad future attorney can go right ahead and fuck themselves in their own asshole.



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