Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

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Andiam

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Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby Andiam » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:48 pm

I need some advice about whether I should withdraw from the February 2019 NY bar exam. I passed the Louisiana bar exam in 2016 and have been practicing since then. In 2018, I fled an abusive relationship and am now living in New York with my daughter, who is now 6 months old. I kept my job but have been working remotely. I won't have this job anymore once my current case is done so I signed up to take the NY bar. I can probably find another position even if I am not barred in NY but I will have more opportunities if I am.

I have financial issues that have prevented me from taking a bar review course. I only really have the Strategies & Tactics book. Since I am working full time and am a single mom, I have not been able to study very much at all. I have basically only gotten through the S&T book. I don't think I will be able to study more than a few hours each day leading up to the bar exam and I only have a few weeks left. It is stressing me out a lot. I am having a hard time sleeping even when my baby is asleep because of the exam weighing on me.

I finished in the top 25% of my class at a T1 law school and passed the Louisiana bar. I am currently getting 60-70% of the MBE questions from S&T correct. I haven't studied for the MEE or MPT at all. For the sake of my mental health, should I just withdraw from the exam? Is there any hope of me cramming enough to have a shot at passing? I do feel like I might be in a better place to pass it later.

ubebarstudying

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby ubebarstudying » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:57 pm

Andiam wrote:I need some advice about whether I should withdraw from the February 2019 NY bar exam. I passed the Louisiana bar exam in 2016 and have been practicing since then. In 2018, I fled an abusive relationship and am now living in New York with my daughter, who is now 6 months old. I kept my job but have been working remotely. I won't have this job anymore once my current case is done so I signed up to take the NY bar. I can probably find another position even if I am not barred in NY but I will have more opportunities if I am.

I have financial issues that have prevented me from taking a bar review course. I only really have the Strategies & Tactics book. Since I am working full time and am a single mom, I have not been able to study very much at all. I have basically only gotten through the S&T book. I don't think I will be able to study more than a few hours each day leading up to the bar exam and I only have a few weeks left. It is stressing me out a lot. I am having a hard time sleeping even when my baby is asleep because of the exam weighing on me.

I finished in the top 25% of my class at a T1 law school and passed the Louisiana bar. I am currently getting 60-70% of the MBE questions from S&T correct. I haven't studied for the MEE or MPT at all. For the sake of my mental health, should I just withdraw from the exam? Is there any hope of me cramming enough to have a shot at passing? I do feel like I might be in a better place to pass it later.


Hey there! I'm sorry about your difficult circumstances, but hopefully I can provide some points and insight...

1) If you are top 25% from a T1 and have already been practicing for a few years, I am sure that you can take the UBE and pass in New York. I am also confident you could find a position WITHOUT the bar, but that comes down to what you're willing to compromise on salary and benefit wise.
2) While I appreciate the differences in Louisiana law, the fact still remains that you have been barred, taken the MBE before, and have the writing skills necessary for the written portion of the exam. Further, you may actually have an edge up on people who have yet to practice, depending on what your position was.
3) Try not to freak out and get your sleep as best you can. If you can only study a few hours, then so be it. Getting 60-70% on the MBE questions is a decent place to be at, though of course you want to be closer to the 70% mark. As far as MPT's, as you know they are closed universe so while you may not have practiced any, I am assuming you did for your prior bar exam, and what with your experience, writing skills, and the nature of the MPT, I think if you are good with time limitations, you will be ok.
4) This point is a tough pill to swallow but I'd be remiss not to mention it. NY has two rules on withdrawal/no-shows to bar exams. If you withdraw or no-show twice, you need to file an appeal to be able to sit for the examination again. While I am sure you would win your appeal, and know plenty of others who have needed to appeal, it's an extra pain. Even the e-mails they send trying to get people to withdraw by a certain date state that it can trigger an appeal but said appeal would be looked on "favorably."

Thus it would be my suggestion that you sit for it if you plan on getting barred in NY at some point, as long as you won't be unduly burdened by finding childcare and so forth, because you have already spent the money, you have experience, you succeeded on a past bar exam and subsequent employment, and then you can avoid having to appeal in the future and quite possibly avoid this whole bar exam situation and the attendant stress.

Andiam

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby Andiam » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:25 pm

Louisiana isn't a state that administers the UBE so I have never taken the MBE before. I would say that I have the writing skills for the MEE/MPT (since Louisiana was almost all essays) but I don't have the time or energy to memorize the law unfortunately. There are big sections of the MBE that I am not comfortable with and I don't feel like I have the time to improve my score enough to pass and also make up for how poorly I will do on the other sections. If I were to withdraw, I would definitely make sure not to withdraw a second time. Childcare is an issue but I could find something if I absolutely had to. Maybe it just doesn't feel worth it to me right now since it is simply another great burden I have to carry on top of everything else I have going on. I would hope that things would be better for me in July or next year. I appreciate you taking the time to respond! I am still weighing my options.

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cram1

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby cram1 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:45 pm

Andiam wrote: If I were to withdraw, I would definitely make sure not to withdraw a second time.


Be careful with this line of thinking, especially if (heaven forbid) a real emergency comes up during your second attempt.

Passing the bar with a few hours per day of studying is doable. I passed CA while working full time and with a baby who was 4 months old at the time I took the bar exam. I was also getting 60-ish percent of my practice MBEs and I did zero preparation for the performance exam. For the essays, I recommend SmartBarPrep and study the rules in order of frequency tested. Maybe you can at least get through the "high priority" rules before the bar exam rolls around.
Last edited by cram1 on Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Andiam

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby Andiam » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:54 pm

cram1 wrote:
Andiam wrote: If I were to withdraw, I would definitely make sure not to withdraw a second time.


Be careful with this line of thinking, especially if (heaven forbid) a real emergency comes up during your second attempt.

Passing the bar with a few hours per day of studying is doable. I passed CA while working full time and with a baby who was 4 months old at the time I took the bar exam. I was also getting 60-ish percent of my practice MBEs and I did zero preparation for the performance exam. For the essays, I recommend SmartBarPrep and study the rules in order of frequency tested. Maybe you can at least get through the "high priority" rules before the bar exam rolls around.


I mean, I guess if I had an emergency, I could appeal. The issue is also that I am pretty much broke so I have only really been able to afford the S&T book. Even though I am sure Smartbarprep is pretty affordable, I wouldn't be able to afford it. I am not sure what I could do with the materials I have in the next 2 weeks that would give me a chance of passing. I was always good at cramming in law school but I don't think I would have the time to cram. I know there are some predictions regarding the MEE but I still don't know if I can study for that and improve my MBE score in 2 weeks if I am only really able to study a few hours a day. It's both a time issue and a financial issue. Ideally, I would have liked to have done Smartbarprep and Adaptibar from the beginning, but I couldn't even afford that.

Lancair

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby Lancair » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:06 pm

If you withdraw now, you lose your registration fee, and you don't past the bar.

If you sit, and worst comes to worse and you don't pass, you are in the same position. The only additional downside is that you lose two days sitting the bar. As many in the thread have pointed out, having previously passed the LA bar, there is a reasonable chance you will pass the NY bar.

Npret

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby Npret » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:19 pm

You should take it. I’m not sure what job you will get here without a NY license. At least try.

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rcharter1978

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:15 am

I'm saying this before ive read the other responses, but I'd go ahead and take it if you can't get your money back. At worst, it's a paid practice exam. At best, you surprise yourself and pass.

b290

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby b290 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:22 am

ubebarstudying wrote:
Andiam wrote:I need some advice about whether I should withdraw from the February 2019 NY bar exam....


Hey there! I'm sorry about your difficult circumstances, but hopefully I can provide some points and insight...

4) This point is a tough pill to swallow but I'd be remiss not to mention it. NY has two rules on withdrawal/no-shows to bar exams. If you withdraw or no-show twice, you need to file an appeal to be able to sit for the examination again. While I am sure you would win your appeal, and know plenty of others who have needed to appeal, it's an extra pain. Even the e-mails they send trying to get people to withdraw by a certain date state that it can trigger an appeal but said appeal would be looked on "favorably."

Thus it would be my suggestion that you sit for it if you plan on getting barred in NY at some point, as long as you won't be unduly burdened by finding childcare and so forth, because you have already spent the money, you have experience, you succeeded on a past bar exam and subsequent employment, and then you can avoid having to appeal in the future and quite possibly avoid this whole bar exam situation and the attendant stress.

This is really important. The whole process (as you're aware) isn't fun. Don't add problems to it. Just on this alone, it'd be easier if you failed and you had to take it again. Also, while valid in this case, I never liked the sunk costs (e.g. "you've already ______, so keep going") argument, as that could encourage to keep going under what seems to be a hopeless situation. However, if you withdraw now, you might as well kiss goodbye any notion you'll be licensed before the end of the year (i.e. really, the swearing in next January). There's no point dedicating the entire year to getting licensed when you can be done with it in a few months.

Also, withdrawing now (outside of an unavoidable situation) won't really help you for the July exam. You will never feel "100% ready" for the bar exam, so any idea that you'll feel "more prepared due to postponing is an illusion (that's quite dangerous). Worst case scenario, if you don't pass for February, you'll have actual experience you can use to pass in July. NY is also the cheapest bar exam in the country (AFAIK).

Considering what you're getting, you're already at the ballpark for passing (MC-wise). At this point, it's all about practice for the essays and MPT. Feel free to peruse:

http://www.nybarexam.org/examquestions/ ... stions.htm

Don't be discouraged by how voluminous the answers are. NY, unlike other states, types up model answers. A passing answer wouldn't need to have as much information. Other states publish the actual highest scoring answers - spelling mistakes and (in some cases) wrong statements of law left in them. Get the structure down, note what's covered, and practice.

The Louisiana bar exam (I know you're aware of this, but for illustrating to others) is a whole nightmarish week, where as the UBE is just 2 days. You've already passed the worst bar exam in the country (California just has an absurdly high pass mark), you've moved on from your relationship, and you're studying now - with a very young kid AND working. With the amount of fortitude you have, I have no doubt that you can - at minimum - BS your way to passing.

My $.02

Smiddywesson

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby Smiddywesson » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:12 pm

Andiam wrote:I need some advice about whether I should withdraw from the February 2019 NY bar exam. I passed the Louisiana bar exam in 2016 and have been practicing since then. In 2018, I fled an abusive relationship and am now living in New York with my daughter, who is now 6 months old. I kept my job but have been working remotely. I won't have this job anymore once my current case is done so I signed up to take the NY bar. I can probably find another position even if I am not barred in NY but I will have more opportunities if I am.

I have financial issues that have prevented me from taking a bar review course. I only really have the Strategies & Tactics book. Since I am working full time and am a single mom, I have not been able to study very much at all. I have basically only gotten through the S&T book. I don't think I will be able to study more than a few hours each day leading up to the bar exam and I only have a few weeks left. It is stressing me out a lot. I am having a hard time sleeping even when my baby is asleep because of the exam weighing on me.

I finished in the top 25% of my class at a T1 law school and passed the Louisiana bar. I am currently getting 60-70% of the MBE questions from S&T correct. I haven't studied for the MEE or MPT at all. For the sake of my mental health, should I just withdraw from the exam? Is there any hope of me cramming enough to have a shot at passing? I do feel like I might be in a better place to pass it later.


70% is FANTASTIC

The MPT is a dumbed down relic of its former self. I strongly suggest you read a few so you can sleep at night. The formatting is tricky, it can was a lot of time, and time management is an issue, but if you can IRAC you can MPT.

If I were you, I would take the test. You can't get a 70% on the MBE without doing equally well on half of the rest, so why sweat it? Study some lean sheets and read actual released questions and answers. They really take the anxiety out of the test when you see how the essays are broken down. Don't forget, everyone other than the person who wrote the masterpiece (model) you are reading, did so on the fly, and probably submitted junk. READ the grading scale for the MPT. You get a 4 out of 6 for submitting something with major flaws in all areas of the test, structure, instructions, form, discussion, law, facts, all exhibit the examinee didn't quite get it and submitted a steaming pile of dog vomit. You can easily do this, the whole bar is geared for millenials with the attention span of a hampster.

Smiddywesson

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Re: Withdraw from NY Bar Exam?

Postby Smiddywesson » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:26 pm

Andiam wrote:
cram1 wrote:
Andiam wrote: If I were to withdraw, I would definitely make sure not to withdraw a second time.


Be careful with this line of thinking, especially if (heaven forbid) a real emergency comes up during your second attempt.

Passing the bar with a few hours per day of studying is doable. I passed CA while working full time and with a baby who was 4 months old at the time I took the bar exam. I was also getting 60-ish percent of my practice MBEs and I did zero preparation for the performance exam. For the essays, I recommend SmartBarPrep and study the rules in order of frequency tested. Maybe you can at least get through the "high priority" rules before the bar exam rolls around.


I mean, I guess if I had an emergency, I could appeal. The issue is also that I am pretty much broke so I have only really been able to afford the S&T book. Even though I am sure Smartbarprep is pretty affordable, I wouldn't be able to afford it. I am not sure what I could do with the materials I have in the next 2 weeks that would give me a chance of passing. I was always good at cramming in law school but I don't think I would have the time to cram. I know there are some predictions regarding the MEE but I still don't know if I can study for that and improve my MBE score in 2 weeks if I am only really able to study a few hours a day. It's both a time issue and a financial issue. Ideally, I would have liked to have done Smartbarprep and Adaptibar from the beginning, but I couldn't even afford that.


Scribd costs $8 a month, and has more materials than you would ever need. The problem is you have two weeks left. Get on the NCBE site and read the released essays. Get some outlines from Scribd, and highlight what was tested. No, forget that, there's no time. Get Studicata for a measly $80. They will give you all the most tested law for all the UBE and MEE topics, along with percentage chances of appearance. It's all right there, and you have enough time remaining to go through it all a few times, AND do your MBE stuff so you don't back slide. And stop convincing yourself 70% isn't enough on the MBE, it's fine.



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