California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

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lexingtonhr

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California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby lexingtonhr » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:27 pm

Or 3rd, 4th time? I'm at a loss of what my game plan is this time around and I want to see what your study habits looked like..
I've been thinking of hiring a tutor. Was that helpful for anyone else?

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby a male human » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:57 pm

Some ideas:

https://barexamtoolbox.com/5-things-dif ... -bar-exam/

I personally did not hire a tutor. Some others have hired a tutor and passed. Some have but didn't pass. In the end, it's you taking the exam.

LockBox

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby LockBox » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:56 pm

lexingtonhr wrote:Or 3rd, 4th time? I'm at a loss of what my game plan is this time around and I want to see what your study habits looked like..
I've been thinking of hiring a tutor. Was that helpful for anyone else?


To me, this is a huge issue. I was in your shoes taking it the second time (passed on the 3rd try), and paid boat loads to a tutor to help my writing (only failed the essays) and my writing score went DOWN.

The third time, I really looked at myself. I came up with my own study plan to attack my weaknesses and maintain my strengths. In a nutshell, with 10 weeks left, I adopted a 3 session program consisting of the first 4 weeks, the next 3 weeks and the final 2 weeks. Each had their purpose (grinding, refining and reviewing, respectively) but for each workday of prep I adopted a 2 x 50: no less than 2 full essays per day, and no less than 50 MBE's per day. I hired a tutor ONLY to grade essays, and all MBE was done through adaptibar. This formula worked for me, but might not for all of you.

If you're going to be a repeater and you're reading this, you need to take a long hard look at yourself, and decide that you are going to invest 100% in this exam...only then are you putting yourself in a position to pass (no guarantees). Good luck.

lexingtonhr

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby lexingtonhr » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:09 pm

LockBox wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:Or 3rd, 4th time? I'm at a loss of what my game plan is this time around and I want to see what your study habits looked like..
I've been thinking of hiring a tutor. Was that helpful for anyone else?


To me, this is a huge issue. I was in your shoes taking it the second time (passed on the 3rd try), and paid boat loads to a tutor to help my writing (only failed the essays) and my writing score went DOWN.

The third time, I really looked at myself. I came up with my own study plan to attack my weaknesses and maintain my strengths. In a nutshell, with 10 weeks left, I adopted a 3 session program consisting of the first 4 weeks, the next 3 weeks and the final 2 weeks. Each had their purpose (grinding, refining and reviewing, respectively) but for each workday of prep I adopted a 2 x 50: no less than 2 full essays per day, and no less than 50 MBE's per day. I hired a tutor ONLY to grade essays, and all MBE was done through adaptibar. This formula worked for me, but might not for all of you.

If you're going to be a repeater and you're reading this, you need to take a long hard look at yourself, and decide that you are going to invest 100% in this exam...only then are you putting yourself in a position to pass (no guarantees). Good luck.




Oh man... I did 2 essays a day and did 50 MBEs on Adaptibar... I did them early on too (in May). I felt like I did invest 100%, but I most likely choked during game day... I just need to figure out where I went wrong when I get my results...

Thanks for the response. It was really helpful to me.

LockBox

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby LockBox » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:54 pm

lexingtonhr wrote:
LockBox wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:Or 3rd, 4th time? I'm at a loss of what my game plan is this time around and I want to see what your study habits looked like..
I've been thinking of hiring a tutor. Was that helpful for anyone else?


To me, this is a huge issue. I was in your shoes taking it the second time (passed on the 3rd try), and paid boat loads to a tutor to help my writing (only failed the essays) and my writing score went DOWN.

The third time, I really looked at myself. I came up with my own study plan to attack my weaknesses and maintain my strengths. In a nutshell, with 10 weeks left, I adopted a 3 session program consisting of the first 4 weeks, the next 3 weeks and the final 2 weeks. Each had their purpose (grinding, refining and reviewing, respectively) but for each workday of prep I adopted a 2 x 50: no less than 2 full essays per day, and no less than 50 MBE's per day. I hired a tutor ONLY to grade essays, and all MBE was done through adaptibar. This formula worked for me, but might not for all of you.

If you're going to be a repeater and you're reading this, you need to take a long hard look at yourself, and decide that you are going to invest 100% in this exam...only then are you putting yourself in a position to pass (no guarantees). Good luck.




Oh man... I did 2 essays a day and did 50 MBEs on Adaptibar... I did them early on too (in May). I felt like I did invest 100%, but I most likely choked during game day... I just need to figure out where I went wrong when I get my results...

Thanks for the response. It was really helpful to me.


Understood. However, there is no guarantee. You prepare in order to put yourself in the best position you can be in. You still need to manage nerves, perform on test day and have a little bit of luck. If you're doing the right things, keep at it with the hope that you'll get passed it eventually.

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:55 pm

lexingtonhr wrote:
LockBox wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:Or 3rd, 4th time? I'm at a loss of what my game plan is this time around and I want to see what your study habits looked like..
I've been thinking of hiring a tutor. Was that helpful for anyone else?


To me, this is a huge issue. I was in your shoes taking it the second time (passed on the 3rd try), and paid boat loads to a tutor to help my writing (only failed the essays) and my writing score went DOWN.

The third time, I really looked at myself. I came up with my own study plan to attack my weaknesses and maintain my strengths. In a nutshell, with 10 weeks left, I adopted a 3 session program consisting of the first 4 weeks, the next 3 weeks and the final 2 weeks. Each had their purpose (grinding, refining and reviewing, respectively) but for each workday of prep I adopted a 2 x 50: no less than 2 full essays per day, and no less than 50 MBE's per day. I hired a tutor ONLY to grade essays, and all MBE was done through adaptibar. This formula worked for me, but might not for all of you.

If you're going to be a repeater and you're reading this, you need to take a long hard look at yourself, and decide that you are going to invest 100% in this exam...only then are you putting yourself in a position to pass (no guarantees). Good luck.




Oh man... I did 2 essays a day and did 50 MBEs on Adaptibar... I did them early on too (in May). I felt like I did invest 100%, but I most likely choked during game day... I just need to figure out where I went wrong when I get my results...

Thanks for the response. It was really helpful to me.



I'd be interested to know what your MBE score was given that it looks like you went all-in with Adaptibar. What was your final two-week percentage on Adaptibar and how many questions did you complete?

lexingtonhr

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby lexingtonhr » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:16 pm

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:
LockBox wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:Or 3rd, 4th time? I'm at a loss of what my game plan is this time around and I want to see what your study habits looked like..
I've been thinking of hiring a tutor. Was that helpful for anyone else?


To me, this is a huge issue. I was in your shoes taking it the second time (passed on the 3rd try), and paid boat loads to a tutor to help my writing (only failed the essays) and my writing score went DOWN.

The third time, I really looked at myself. I came up with my own study plan to attack my weaknesses and maintain my strengths. In a nutshell, with 10 weeks left, I adopted a 3 session program consisting of the first 4 weeks, the next 3 weeks and the final 2 weeks. Each had their purpose (grinding, refining and reviewing, respectively) but for each workday of prep I adopted a 2 x 50: no less than 2 full essays per day, and no less than 50 MBE's per day. I hired a tutor ONLY to grade essays, and all MBE was done through adaptibar. This formula worked for me, but might not for all of you.

If you're going to be a repeater and you're reading this, you need to take a long hard look at yourself, and decide that you are going to invest 100% in this exam...only then are you putting yourself in a position to pass (no guarantees). Good luck.




Oh man... I did 2 essays a day and did 50 MBEs on Adaptibar... I did them early on too (in May). I felt like I did invest 100%, but I most likely choked during game day... I just need to figure out where I went wrong when I get my results...

Thanks for the response. It was really helpful to me.



I'd be interested to know what your MBE score was given that it looks like you went all-in with Adaptibar. What was your final two-week percentage on Adaptibar and how many questions did you complete?




It was 70%... I just have to get my results back to see what I did wrong.

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby bacillusanthracis » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:31 am

lexingtonhr wrote:
LockBox wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:Or 3rd, 4th time? I'm at a loss of what my game plan is this time around and I want to see what your study habits looked like..
I've been thinking of hiring a tutor. Was that helpful for anyone else?


To me, this is a huge issue. I was in your shoes taking it the second time (passed on the 3rd try), and paid boat loads to a tutor to help my writing (only failed the essays) and my writing score went DOWN.

The third time, I really looked at myself. I came up with my own study plan to attack my weaknesses and maintain my strengths. In a nutshell, with 10 weeks left, I adopted a 3 session program consisting of the first 4 weeks, the next 3 weeks and the final 2 weeks. Each had their purpose (grinding, refining and reviewing, respectively) but for each workday of prep I adopted a 2 x 50: no less than 2 full essays per day, and no less than 50 MBE's per day. I hired a tutor ONLY to grade essays, and all MBE was done through adaptibar. This formula worked for me, but might not for all of you.

If you're going to be a repeater and you're reading this, you need to take a long hard look at yourself, and decide that you are going to invest 100% in this exam...only then are you putting yourself in a position to pass (no guarantees). Good luck.




Oh man... I did 2 essays a day and did 50 MBEs on Adaptibar... I did them early on too (in May). I felt like I did invest 100%, but I most likely choked during game day... I just need to figure out where I went wrong when I get my results...

Thanks for the response. It was really helpful to me.


There is a pretty heated debate regarding Adaptibar. I'm on the side that thinks it's minimally helpful. The first time I took the bar, I almost exclusively used Adaptibar and it was disastrous for me. Those questions are old, don't reflect the style of the actual MBE, and frankly, and are considerably easier than the current MBE. They simply do not cover the scope of what's on the actual test.

I think Adaptibar has utility as a supplement--at best. I used a combination of Barbri, the NCBEX test questions and S&T. The NCBEX questions are ones that have been on recent bar exams and so reflect the current style.

Essays: I really needed personal feedback from someone who knows what California is looking for in its essay questions. Barbri never gave me feedback, so it was obvious I wasn't good at self-assessment.

In terms of strategy, I did the PT first, and spent two hours on it. I also looked at the February 2018 model answers for the PT, and copied the format of the models exactly.

Finally, as to choking, well, I did that the first time too. In law school I'd never experienced test anxiety, but on the day of the MBE, my mind betrayed me and I was literally falling asleep during the MBE. There was no good reason for it. But it did happen. All I could do was accept it, and blindly had faith it wouldn't happen again. Of course, the catastrophe that was my first time MBE experience hung out in the back of my head like an asshole version of Jiminy Cricket, but I managed to squash it like the shit eating bug it was.

Best of luck, and know that you can do this.

chickenb00b

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby chickenb00b » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:50 am

Here's what I wrote in another post (not a repeater but I think it should help)

Here's my insight (1st time passer):

If you did the same amount of preparation/research as me, you'll know that everyone stressed the importance of hitting all the issues, if not most of it. My Themis Bar Grader gave me 50/55s because I "missed issues XYZ." BarEssays also show many essays receiving below the needed 65 (or 62.5, rather), citing to an obvious mistake--failure to spot some issues. Past takers on TLS and other forums stress the same thing.

Naturally, that's what I tried to learn. I say learn because I didn't have to remember 13 (?) subjects for just a single day to spot the issues back in law school. It was just 1 subject--memorize the outline and go to the exam and forget about it. So, I don't think I'm particularly good at spotting issues, because that requires knowing the law well, or at least memorizing the law well. I've never been a good memorizer. I did well in law school by sheer analysis. So, based on my research, bar exam writing was different than law school writing.

I left the essay exam thinking I did well. Then, against all advice, I decided to see what others wrote. To my surprise (or not), I missed a crap ton of issues. Writing Requirement for assurances? OJ Exception? CA Evidence exceptions for spousal abuse? Standing? Market participant exception? The existence of a balancing test for the P&I analysis on Con law? The list goes on. So, I came to the conclusion that I missed more issues than I wrote about.

I passed. And here's what I know I definitely did well on. I developed the sh*t out of the major issues. Every subject/essay has their major issue(s). They are worth the most points--just like in law school. The facts will suggest to you what the major issue is. Commonly, it will be obvious. There will be strong facts to argue BOTH SIDES. So, for the issues that I did spot, the major ones, I did what I do best in law school, analyze it thoroughly.

I think that's a key thing most people miss. While there's some truth to spotting issues, and earning those free points for putting down even one sentence for a minor issue (e.g. the fact that they weren't married in the Evidence essay, and so there's no privilege (i didn't even talk about this)), I think the main priority is to learn how to analyze well and thoroughly. That has to be step 1. Step 2 is focus on hitting the main areas of each subject matter. Negligence for Torts, Murder for Crim, Hearsay/Character for Evidence, etc. Learn how to analyze those. Learn which facts are used to argue. Learn how to determine the strength of each fact and how much weight a fact finder gives to these facts. That has to be Step 2. It makes up 60-70% of the essays. Step 3 should then be the little minor parts of the law. The other 40% of the subject. Market Participant. If you knew that, good for you. I didn't. You would've gotten a few extra points than me. But that's step 3 for a reason. It's not that big of a deal.

Now, I'll admit the bar will often throw you a curve ball and make Step 3 into a primary issue on an essay. See Con Law for example. That issue (priv and immunities? Whatever the discriminating against out of state peeps is called) has only been tested 1 or 2 times. It's a minor issue when studying. It was a Step 3 for me. So I didnt know it well. I didn't know there was a balancing test. I know just minimally that you can't discriminate against out of state dudes unless you have no choice or whatever. So I relied on that. But you know what? that was just 1 of the 5 essays. Step 1 (learning to analyze) helps you analyze any essay. I saw some facts to argue why u should or shouldnt discriminate and I used it. It's all about step 1.

In other words, a grader can tell a passing lawyer-like answer from a mile away. Great analysis shows that. Apply the facts to the law. Argue BOTH SIDES. Weigh the strengths of argument. Definitely do this for the major issue of the fact pattern. If you're able to do it for the minor ones as well, good for you--a 70+ grade perhaps.

So, if you didn't learn how to write a great analysis yet, learn that. If you need help with that, feel free to PM me. I can help you (probably by telling you to analyze a short fact pattern and I'll tell you what I think of your analysis and how to improve and what to look for and/or tips/suggestion)

lexingtonhr

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby lexingtonhr » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:28 pm

chickenb00b wrote:Here's what I wrote in another post (not a repeater but I think it should help)

Here's my insight (1st time passer):

If you did the same amount of preparation/research as me, you'll know that everyone stressed the importance of hitting all the issues, if not most of it. My Themis Bar Grader gave me 50/55s because I "missed issues XYZ." BarEssays also show many essays receiving below the needed 65 (or 62.5, rather), citing to an obvious mistake--failure to spot some issues. Past takers on TLS and other forums stress the same thing.

Naturally, that's what I tried to learn. I say learn because I didn't have to remember 13 (?) subjects for just a single day to spot the issues back in law school. It was just 1 subject--memorize the outline and go to the exam and forget about it. So, I don't think I'm particularly good at spotting issues, because that requires knowing the law well, or at least memorizing the law well. I've never been a good memorizer. I did well in law school by sheer analysis. So, based on my research, bar exam writing was different than law school writing.

I left the essay exam thinking I did well. Then, against all advice, I decided to see what others wrote. To my surprise (or not), I missed a crap ton of issues. Writing Requirement for assurances? OJ Exception? CA Evidence exceptions for spousal abuse? Standing? Market participant exception? The existence of a balancing test for the P&I analysis on Con law? The list goes on. So, I came to the conclusion that I missed more issues than I wrote about.

I passed. And here's what I know I definitely did well on. I developed the sh*t out of the major issues. Every subject/essay has their major issue(s). They are worth the most points--just like in law school. The facts will suggest to you what the major issue is. Commonly, it will be obvious. There will be strong facts to argue BOTH SIDES. So, for the issues that I did spot, the major ones, I did what I do best in law school, analyze it thoroughly.

I think that's a key thing most people miss. While there's some truth to spotting issues, and earning those free points for putting down even one sentence for a minor issue (e.g. the fact that they weren't married in the Evidence essay, and so there's no privilege (i didn't even talk about this)), I think the main priority is to learn how to analyze well and thoroughly. That has to be step 1. Step 2 is focus on hitting the main areas of each subject matter. Negligence for Torts, Murder for Crim, Hearsay/Character for Evidence, etc. Learn how to analyze those. Learn which facts are used to argue. Learn how to determine the strength of each fact and how much weight a fact finder gives to these facts. That has to be Step 2. It makes up 60-70% of the essays. Step 3 should then be the little minor parts of the law. The other 40% of the subject. Market Participant. If you knew that, good for you. I didn't. You would've gotten a few extra points than me. But that's step 3 for a reason. It's not that big of a deal.

Now, I'll admit the bar will often throw you a curve ball and make Step 3 into a primary issue on an essay. See Con Law for example. That issue (priv and immunities? Whatever the discriminating against out of state peeps is called) has only been tested 1 or 2 times. It's a minor issue when studying. It was a Step 3 for me. So I didnt know it well. I didn't know there was a balancing test. I know just minimally that you can't discriminate against out of state dudes unless you have no choice or whatever. So I relied on that. But you know what? that was just 1 of the 5 essays. Step 1 (learning to analyze) helps you analyze any essay. I saw some facts to argue why u should or shouldnt discriminate and I used it. It's all about step 1.

In other words, a grader can tell a passing lawyer-like answer from a mile away. Great analysis shows that. Apply the facts to the law. Argue BOTH SIDES. Weigh the strengths of argument. Definitely do this for the major issue of the fact pattern. If you're able to do it for the minor ones as well, good for you--a 70+ grade perhaps.

So, if you didn't learn how to write a great analysis yet, learn that. If you need help with that, feel free to PM me. I can help you (probably by telling you to analyze a short fact pattern and I'll tell you what I think of your analysis and how to improve and what to look for and/or tips/suggestion)



Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. My MBE score was low so I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong.. I used AdaptiBar intensively and I supplemented with Emmanuels. I also studied using the critical pass flash cards, probably not as much since I was overwhelmed. I just don't know what happened... I'm at a loss to be honest and trying to figure out a game plan for next time is not going anywhere. What were your strategies for studying the MBE's?

chickenb00b

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby chickenb00b » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:55 pm

lexingtonhr wrote:Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. My MBE score was low so I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong.. I used AdaptiBar intensively and I supplemented with Emmanuels. I also studied using the critical pass flash cards, probably not as much since I was overwhelmed. I just don't know what happened... I'm at a loss to be honest and trying to figure out a game plan for next time is not going anywhere. What were your strategies for studying the MBE's?


Since I don't know my MBE scores, take this response with a grain of salt. I don't recommend Adaptibar. I was scoring 70% on it... EASILY. I mean, I quickly eliminated two answers, then shortly figured out which one was the correct answer. That was not the case on the Bar. Not even close.

Here's what doing questions in general does though: each and every time you get a question wrong, you see what rule is being tested. You learn. You, hopefully, won't get it wrong the next time. Although the adaptibar questions were a lot easier, this still applies. And it will apply for every question you do on any supplement that has explanations. This was especially true in the emanuels/tactics book. The explanations were great there.

I think the 2nd factor into beating the MBE, naturally, is knowing the law well. The questions test nuances. A lot of time, you'd go "I see what you're trying to do here." So, this is also why supplements that teaches the law well is good, e.g. critical pass. This is also why the short form cheat sheets aren't so good, e.g. Magic Sheets. And nothing against magic sheets, it is really condensed. It focuses on the major issues. It's good enough for the essays in my opinion (see my insight on essays re focusing on major issues + strong analysis).

So, while Adaptibar fooled me into thinking I'll do just as well on the Bar (at least +/- 3-5%), it helped me learned the law. If I had to take the bar again, I'd skip adaptibar and just give my themis questions a shot, or onetimers, or whatever else bar prep companies out there that provides questions. And hope those are more reflective than Adaptibar.

estefanchanning

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby estefanchanning » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:03 pm

chickenb00b wrote:So, while Adaptibar fooled me into thinking I'll do just as well on the Bar (at least +/- 3-5%), it helped me learned the law. If I had to take the bar again, I'd skip adaptibar and just give my themis questions a shot, or onetimers, or whatever else bar prep companies out there that provides questions. And hope those are more reflective than Adaptibar.


Adaptibar's explanations were complete and utter shit. The do not help you learn the law. In fact, they often gave you the wrong explanation for the law. One example I distinctly remember was regarding assignments/delegations. Under the UCC, if a contract says "assignment" it means assignments and delegations, but if it says "delegation," it only means that. (or something along those lines).

Anyways, the question was a UCC assignments question, and it needed you to make that distinction. Adaptibar's explanation did not even mention the UCC code in question (I later learned it from Barbri). Instead, it literally MADE UP an explanation like "you must generally construe the contract against the writer" bla bla, which did not apply at all.

lexingtonhr

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby lexingtonhr » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:04 pm

chickenb00b wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. My MBE score was low so I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong.. I used AdaptiBar intensively and I supplemented with Emmanuels. I also studied using the critical pass flash cards, probably not as much since I was overwhelmed. I just don't know what happened... I'm at a loss to be honest and trying to figure out a game plan for next time is not going anywhere. What were your strategies for studying the MBE's?


Since I don't know my MBE scores, take this response with a grain of salt. I don't recommend Adaptibar. I was scoring 70% on it... EASILY. I mean, I quickly eliminated two answers, then shortly figured out which one was the correct answer. That was not the case on the Bar. Not even close.

Here's what doing questions in general does though: each and every time you get a question wrong, you see what rule is being tested. You learn. You, hopefully, won't get it wrong the next time. Although the adaptibar questions were a lot easier, this still applies. And it will apply for every question you do on any supplement that has explanations. This was especially true in the emanuels/tactics book. The explanations were great there.

I think the 2nd factor into beating the MBE, naturally, is knowing the law well. The questions test nuances. A lot of time, you'd go "I see what you're trying to do here." So, this is also why supplements that teaches the law well is good, e.g. critical pass. This is also why the short form cheat sheets aren't so good, e.g. Magic Sheets. And nothing against magic sheets, it is really condensed. It focuses on the major issues. It's good enough for the essays in my opinion (see my insight on essays re focusing on major issues + strong analysis).

So, while Adaptibar fooled me into thinking I'll do just as well on the Bar (at least +/- 3-5%), it helped me learned the law. If I had to take the bar again, I'd skip adaptibar and just give my themis questions a shot, or onetimers, or whatever else bar prep companies out there that provides questions. And hope those are more reflective than Adaptibar.


I scored from 65-70% towards the end on Adaptibar. I used Emmanuels as well and found that many of the MBE questions in the book were on Adaptibar too. I thought it was my ticket to passing the MBE portion of the Bar exam. Man, was I wrong. I had a Bar prep mentor that told me that Adaptibar helped him pass the MBE portion. My school urged us to supplement with Adaptibar for our MBE studying. I had my doubts, but believed them. I mean, if they passed using Adaptibar, I could too right? Yep, it didn't work for me.

For some reason, I just feel like my scaled MBE score is wrong, but this could just be my frustration talking. I thought I did good enough to earn a pass, even though it was difficult. I just don't know anymore. I'm still pretty pissed off... I feel duped.

I'm just trying to figure out my next move. I don't know what that is yet.

estefanchanning

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby estefanchanning » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:06 pm

lexingtonhr wrote:
chickenb00b wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. My MBE score was low so I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong.. I used AdaptiBar intensively and I supplemented with Emmanuels. I also studied using the critical pass flash cards, probably not as much since I was overwhelmed. I just don't know what happened... I'm at a loss to be honest and trying to figure out a game plan for next time is not going anywhere. What were your strategies for studying the MBE's?


Since I don't know my MBE scores, take this response with a grain of salt. I don't recommend Adaptibar. I was scoring 70% on it... EASILY. I mean, I quickly eliminated two answers, then shortly figured out which one was the correct answer. That was not the case on the Bar. Not even close.

Here's what doing questions in general does though: each and every time you get a question wrong, you see what rule is being tested. You learn. You, hopefully, won't get it wrong the next time. Although the adaptibar questions were a lot easier, this still applies. And it will apply for every question you do on any supplement that has explanations. This was especially true in the emanuels/tactics book. The explanations were great there.

I think the 2nd factor into beating the MBE, naturally, is knowing the law well. The questions test nuances. A lot of time, you'd go "I see what you're trying to do here." So, this is also why supplements that teaches the law well is good, e.g. critical pass. This is also why the short form cheat sheets aren't so good, e.g. Magic Sheets. And nothing against magic sheets, it is really condensed. It focuses on the major issues. It's good enough for the essays in my opinion (see my insight on essays re focusing on major issues + strong analysis).

So, while Adaptibar fooled me into thinking I'll do just as well on the Bar (at least +/- 3-5%), it helped me learned the law. If I had to take the bar again, I'd skip adaptibar and just give my themis questions a shot, or onetimers, or whatever else bar prep companies out there that provides questions. And hope those are more reflective than Adaptibar.


I scored from 65-70% towards the end on Adaptibar. I used Emmanuels as well and found that many of the MBE questions in the book were on Adaptibar too. I thought it was my ticket to passing the MBE portion of the Bar exam. Man, was I wrong. I had a Bar prep mentor that told me that Adaptibar helped him pass the MBE portion. My school urged us to supplement with Adaptibar for our MBE studying. I had my doubts, but believed them. I mean, if they passed using Adaptibar, I could too right? Yep, it didn't work for me.

For some reason, I just feel like my scaled MBE score is wrong, but this could just be my frustration talking. I thought I did good enough to earn a pass, even though it was difficult. I just don't know anymore. I'm still pretty pissed off... I feel duped.

I'm just trying to figure out my next move. I don't know what that is yet.


Bottom line: you have to know the law like the back of your hand. Question is, how do you do that. I recommend you take the big outlines from themis/barbri/whatever course you take and condense it down to 5-6 pages and try to memorize as much as you can. Do that for all the subjects.

Don't just keep doing practice exams and hope information will stick--literally memorize everything.

chickenb00b

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby chickenb00b » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:10 pm

estefanchanning wrote:
chickenb00b wrote:So, while Adaptibar fooled me into thinking I'll do just as well on the Bar (at least +/- 3-5%), it helped me learned the law. If I had to take the bar again, I'd skip adaptibar and just give my themis questions a shot, or onetimers, or whatever else bar prep companies out there that provides questions. And hope those are more reflective than Adaptibar.


Adaptibar's explanations were complete and utter shit. The do not help you learn the law. In fact, they often gave you the wrong explanation for the law. One example I distinctly remember was regarding assignments/delegations. Under the UCC, if a contract says "assignment" it means assignments and delegations, but if it says "delegation," it only means that. (or something along those lines).

Anyways, the question was a UCC assignments question, and it needed you to make that distinction. Adaptibar's explanation did not even mention the UCC code in question (I later learned it from Barbri). Instead, it literally MADE UP an explanation like "you must generally construe the contract against the writer" bla bla, which did not apply at all.


I agree with you, but perhaps to be more clear... Adaptibar's questions pointed me to nuances I didn't know about, leading me to research that part, add it onto my outline/flash cards. Thereafter, when I review, I'll also review that. Which is also why I don't recommend Adaptibar--any other supplement or bar prep program will do the same (point you to the nuance).

LockBox

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby LockBox » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:03 pm

While I don't necessarily recommend Adaptibar over any other similar supplement, I do think Adaptibar (or something like it) is highly useful.

The problem is that there are complaints that the questions are old, or it is dissimilar from the MBE. The bar exam isn't your undergrad exam that you can do questions out of some supplement then walk in and expect to see the same thing. Second, I highly doubt any of you are scoring extremely well (+75%) on adaptibar then bomb the MBE.

Yes, some of the explanations were not helpful, but that's where you go into your notes/outlines to figure out what the law is.

Lastly, the poster who recommended just "memorizing" everything, to me, is misguided. There are some people who can read outlines and the information just "sticks." However, if you're a repeater this likely isn't you and the best recommendation I have is to keep taking tests, failing, then critically thinking about what you missed and trying to learn from that.

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:12 pm

lexingtonhr wrote:

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. My MBE score was low so I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong.. I used AdaptiBar intensively and I supplemented with Emmanuels. I also studied using the critical pass flash cards, probably not as much since I was overwhelmed. I just don't know what happened... I'm at a loss to be honest and trying to figure out a game plan for next time is not going anywhere. What were your strategies for studying the MBE's?



What was your MBE score?

lexingtonhr

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby lexingtonhr » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:27 pm

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:
lexingtonhr wrote:

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. My MBE score was low so I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong.. I used AdaptiBar intensively and I supplemented with Emmanuels. I also studied using the critical pass flash cards, probably not as much since I was overwhelmed. I just don't know what happened... I'm at a loss to be honest and trying to figure out a game plan for next time is not going anywhere. What were your strategies for studying the MBE's?



What was your MBE score?


Don't take this offensively, but I don't really want to share it. I'm just fucking embarrassed. I thought I thoroughly prepped myself to tackle it, but I was so wrong.

chickenb00b

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby chickenb00b » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:32 pm

Don't be embarassed. Practically speaking, you'd have to see what you did wrong and work on that. Emotionally/Mentally speaking, you just have to face your "failures", that'll lead to a more positive mindset. It indirectly helps your next test.

Nightcrawler

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby Nightcrawler » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:47 am

chickenb00b wrote:Don't be embarassed. Practically speaking, you'd have to see what you did wrong and work on that. Emotionally/Mentally speaking, you just have to face your "failures", that'll lead to a more positive mindset. It indirectly helps your next test.


Agree. The earlier you get over anything that is an obstacle to your improvement (eg: embarrassment), the earlier you will get into the right state of mind to really give 100% and pass this exam.

On an unrelated note, I passed getting 80-85% on adaptibar. Yes, some of it’s explanations are garbage, their customer care is non-existent, and their app/websites are always glitchy. However, they have a good database of questions, the questions are real ones so te style is the same as the real ones, and it is easy and faster to use than a book.

bacillusanthracis

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby bacillusanthracis » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:53 am

LockBox wrote:....I highly doubt any of you are scoring extremely well (+75%) on adaptibar then bomb the MBE


Sorry, but my experience tells a different story. I had Adaptibar wired when I used it as my primary source for MBE practice. I was in the low to mid 80% by the time the MBE rolled around, and I didn't just bomb the MBE, I fucking bombed the MBE.

I will grant that I'm not the sharpest bulb in the shithouse, so I needed more than what in retrospect amounted to lightweight practice.

Barbri's MBE questions do a poor job of imitating the style of the current MBE, but the breadth and depth of the questions along with S&T and NCBEX questions provided much more varied and comprehensive practice and answer explanations than Adaptibar.

I absolutely do not doubt that some people find Adaptibar an excellent preparation tool, and good for them. But if one has used it, and come away with a horrible score, then using it again doesn't seem very wise.

Nightcrawler

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby Nightcrawler » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:24 pm

bacillusanthracis wrote:
LockBox wrote:....I highly doubt any of you are scoring extremely well (+75%) on adaptibar then bomb the MBE


Sorry, but my experience tells a different story. I had Adaptibar wired when I used it as my primary source for MBE practice. I was in the low to mid 80% by the time the MBE rolled around, and I didn't just bomb the MBE, I fucking bombed the MBE.

I will grant that I'm not the sharpest bulb in the shithouse, so I needed more than what in retrospect amounted to lightweight practice.

Barbri's MBE questions do a poor job of imitating the style of the current MBE, but the breadth and depth of the questions along with S&T and NCBEX questions provided much more varied and comprehensive practice and answer explanations than Adaptibar.

I absolutely do not doubt that some people find Adaptibar an excellent preparation tool, and good for them. But if one has used it, and come away with a horrible score, then using it again doesn't seem very wise.


The first time I used it I got a horrible score on the MBE too, but that score was still better than what I got before that. I don’t know if we just used it differently but I can’t see it not helping in improving your score.

I have a couple of questions for you:
1. How much was your score before using adaptibar?
2. How much was your score after using it?
3. How many questions did you practice?
4. What was your overall average and your average in the last 350 questions (or the last couple of weeks)?

lexingtonhr

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby lexingtonhr » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:57 pm

bacillusanthracis wrote:
LockBox wrote:....I highly doubt any of you are scoring extremely well (+75%) on adaptibar then bomb the MBE


Sorry, but my experience tells a different story. I had Adaptibar wired when I used it as my primary source for MBE practice. I was in the low to mid 80% by the time the MBE rolled around, and I didn't just bomb the MBE, I fucking bombed the MBE.

I will grant that I'm not the sharpest bulb in the shithouse, so I needed more than what in retrospect amounted to lightweight practice.

Barbri's MBE questions do a poor job of imitating the style of the current MBE, but the breadth and depth of the questions along with S&T and NCBEX questions provided much more varied and comprehensive practice and answer explanations than Adaptibar.

I absolutely do not doubt that some people find Adaptibar an excellent preparation tool, and good for them. But if one has used it, and come away with a horrible score, then using it again doesn't seem very wise.


I am in the exact same boat as you with Adaptibar. I was going into the bar exam confident that I would crush those MBE's. I mean, Adaptibar showed that I was scoring 70% and I did 50 questions a day (started in May) and journaled what I did wrong. I did everything I could so that I could get a high MBE score on the bar. Then, going into the Bar, I found that the questions were so much different from the ones I saw on Adaptibar. My Civ pro and Crim law scores were higher than the other ones. On Adaptibar, my civ pro score was the lowest. So I don't understand what the hell to do when I practice for the MBE's the next time. I'm at a loss. Do you have a different approach to MBE's now?

bacillusanthracis

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby bacillusanthracis » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:25 am

Nightcrawler wrote:
bacillusanthracis wrote:
LockBox wrote:....I highly doubt any of you are scoring extremely well (+75%) on adaptibar then bomb the MBE


Sorry, but my experience tells a different story. I had Adaptibar wired when I used it as my primary source for MBE practice. I was in the low to mid 80% by the time the MBE rolled around, and I didn't just bomb the MBE, I fucking bombed the MBE.

I will grant that I'm not the sharpest bulb in the shithouse, so I needed more than what in retrospect amounted to lightweight practice.

Barbri's MBE questions do a poor job of imitating the style of the current MBE, but the breadth and depth of the questions along with S&T and NCBEX questions provided much more varied and comprehensive practice and answer explanations than Adaptibar.

I absolutely do not doubt that some people find Adaptibar an excellent preparation tool, and good for them. But if one has used it, and come away with a horrible score, then using it again doesn't seem very wise.


The first time I used it I got a horrible score on the MBE too, but that score was still better than what I got before that. I don’t know if we just used it differently but I can’t see it not helping in improving your score.

I have a couple of questions for you:
1. How much was your score before using adaptibar?
2. How much was your score after using it?
3. How many questions did you practice?
4. What was your overall average and your average in the last 350 questions (or the last couple of weeks)?


Read what I wrote. The only question you asked that I didn't already write about was the number of questions. I did 2000+ on Adaptibar. IOW, all of them, and many two or more times over. That reminds me, Adaptibar's program coughs up a lot of repeat questions. I didn't like that about it either.

You seem to not believe that something that worked for you didn't work for somebody else. I don't know what to tell you.

bacillusanthracis

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Re: California Repeaters, What Did You Do Different the 2nd Tim

Postby bacillusanthracis » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:41 am

lexingtonhr wrote: I'm at a loss. Do you have a different approach to MBE's now?


Barbri, S&T's, and NCBEX questions. Lots of them. That's what I did, and I passed. I made tons of flashcards too, but eventually whittled those down to what I always struggled with so that I got my stacks down to 25 or less per subject. For example, in Civ Pro, I knew PJ, DJ, supplemental jurisdiction and venue questions so well that I didn't need cards for that, but I did for stuff like impleader, interpleader, and intervener (and appeals too).

I also did something that can be time consuming at first, but after awhile, I got much faster at it. I'd study e.g. appeals, and then I'd handwrite out everything I knew about it. If I got something wrong, I'd write out the part(s) I got wrong again. Then I'd write the whole thing again. If that sounds like a massive pain in the ass, well, it is. However, the far bigger pain in the ass was failing, and starting all over again.

Obviously, I couldn't do this for every topic in every subject, so I only did it for the things that were repeatedly killing me.

Oh, and in Real Property, I quit doing future interests. The amount of detail and memorization that shit takes to be prepared for one or two MBE questions is counterproductive.



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