THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

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NAMLEX

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby NAMLEX » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:47 am

Neilt001 wrote:
NAMLEX wrote:Hello there. I'm not taking the February exam but intend to take it in July. I'm eligible for the NY bar as a foreign educated candidate and I have a couple of quick questions regarding Themis, I'd be really grateful for some input.

After doing a bit of research on bar review I was attracted to Themis - I'll be between London and Taipei when I'm studying so it is great to be able to study online. However I emailed Themis directly for advice several months ago and have heard nothing back - it was a little off putting but I'm still interested.

What would be the best Themis option for a foreign educated applicant like myself? I'm keen to familiarize myself with the materials asap, is there an early access provision for those such as myself that want to get an early start?


Hi there! I had a similar situation. I was living in Bermuda and working full time, so I wanted something I could do online at my own pace, starting when I want. I'm not sure about emails, but I called Themis and they were great on the phone. I ended up staring bar study for the Feb bar in late October. Themis generally starts their course in mid-December, but they let me start a good 6 weeks early. Personally I don't see why they wouldn't let you start even soon (like now) but could be wrong. Anyway, just call em and you'll be sweet.

Other than that there aren't many 'options'. it's just the bar review course depending on your particular state and that's it. Unlike Barbri there's no 'foreign candidate' course or anything.

Good luck!


Sounds great! Thanks for that.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby NAMLEX » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:49 am

Lancair wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:
NAMLEX wrote:Hello there. I'm not taking the February exam but intend to take it in July. I'm eligible for the NY bar as a foreign educated candidate and I have a couple of quick questions regarding Themis, I'd be really grateful for some input.

After doing a bit of research on bar review I was attracted to Themis - I'll be between London and Taipei when I'm studying so it is great to be able to study online. However I emailed Themis directly for advice several months ago and have heard nothing back - it was a little off putting but I'm still interested.

What would be the best Themis option for a foreign educated applicant like myself? I'm keen to familiarize myself with the materials asap, is there an early access provision for those such as myself that want to get an early start?


Hi there! I had a similar situation. I was living in Bermuda and working full time, so I wanted something I could do online at my own pace, starting when I want. I'm not sure about emails, but I called Themis and they were great on the phone. I ended up staring bar study for the Feb bar in late October. Themis generally starts their course in mid-December, but they let me start a good 6 weeks early. Personally I don't see why they wouldn't let you start even soon (like now) but could be wrong. Anyway, just call em and you'll be sweet.

Other than that there aren't many 'options'. it's just the bar review course depending on your particular state and that's it. Unlike Barbri there's no 'foreign candidate' course or anything.

Good luck!


Agree with Neil on the above. While I haven't passed yet (so take with a grain of salt), I looked into the various options and Themis seemed to provide the most flexibility for an early start with the full course materials, without being over the top like BarBri's foreign candidate course (which all sounds painfully unnecessary, particularly if you are coming from a common law jurisdiction).

My girlfriend is doing the standard BarBri at the moment and while the content seems similar, it is a much more structured course and there were less early start options.

I'm doing the LLM Advantage program and Themis will give you access to the MBE stuff ~8 months out (through a separate "Early Access" program). Not being able to port you progress in the early start course to the full review (which you can access ~4 months out) is slightly annoying but no big deal. The LLM program doesn't actually have any extra content as far as I can tell, apart from some mythical "LLM Advantage" book which hasn't arrived yet. I think you might get some additional graded essays as well. Probably not work the extra $1200 or whatever it costs.

If you were paying for it out of your own pocket, I'd just sign up for the regular Themis program and talk them into letting you access as early as necessary.


Excellent input, thanks!

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby tinabelcher » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:20 pm

Con Law MBE PQ Set 4- Am I the only one who got smoked by this set of questions? I felt pretty defeated after getting a dismal 40% on this set (I have been averaging 50-60% in my subjects, not great but not 40s either).

When I review the answers, some of the correct choices were things I have honestly never encountered before. Looking at the score comparison with other test takers, most are choosing the right answers. What am I missing that they are not? I have done the lectures, reviewed my outline, I write out every wrong MBE answer and also the right ones. I also do every single essay assigned. I'm now hand-writing my outlines and MBE answers just to make sure I am really retaining this.

I am a repeat taker for IL and I am feeling discouraged. Any advice?

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby Lancair » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:06 am

tinabelcher wrote:Con Law MBE PQ Set 4- Am I the only one who got smoked by this set of questions? I felt pretty defeated after getting a dismal 40% on this set (I have been averaging 50-60% in my subjects, not great but not 40s either).

When I review the answers, some of the correct choices were things I have honestly never encountered before. Looking at the score comparison with other test takers, most are choosing the right answers. What am I missing that they are not? I have done the lectures, reviewed my outline, I write out every wrong MBE answer and also the right ones. I also do every single essay assigned. I'm now hand-writing my outlines and MBE answers just to make sure I am really retaining this.

I am a repeat taker for IL and I am feeling discouraged. Any advice?


If you haven't encountered the material before, you shouldn't beat yourself up for not getting the answers right. Personally, I find MBE sets a good way to learn some of the more obscure exceptions that you glaze over in the outline because you see how it works in practice and I find that a missed PQ and review of the explanation sticks in my memory. It's all about improvement - still a long way until game day.

The only thing you should be beating yourself up for in practice sets is unforced errors - misreading the question/answers.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby tinabelcher » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:23 am

Lancair wrote:
tinabelcher wrote:Con Law MBE PQ Set 4- Am I the only one who got smoked by this set of questions? I felt pretty defeated after getting a dismal 40% on this set (I have been averaging 50-60% in my subjects, not great but not 40s either).

When I review the answers, some of the correct choices were things I have honestly never encountered before. Looking at the score comparison with other test takers, most are choosing the right answers. What am I missing that they are not? I have done the lectures, reviewed my outline, I write out every wrong MBE answer and also the right ones. I also do every single essay assigned. I'm now hand-writing my outlines and MBE answers just to make sure I am really retaining this.

I am a repeat taker for IL and I am feeling discouraged. Any advice?


If you haven't encountered the material before, you shouldn't beat yourself up for not getting the answers right. Personally, I find MBE sets a good way to learn some of the more obscure exceptions that you glaze over in the outline because you see how it works in practice and I find that a missed PQ and review of the explanation sticks in my memory. It's all about improvement - still a long way until game day.

The only thing you should be beating yourself up for in practice sets is unforced errors - misreading the question/answers.


Thanks so much for the reply! That helps to hear. I'll just keep hammering the MBEs and making sure I learn the nuances! :)

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby inyourhonor07 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:53 pm

tinabelcher wrote:Con Law MBE PQ Set 4- Am I the only one who got smoked by this set of questions? I felt pretty defeated after getting a dismal 40% on this set (I have been averaging 50-60% in my subjects, not great but not 40s either).

When I review the answers, some of the correct choices were things I have honestly never encountered before. Looking at the score comparison with other test takers, most are choosing the right answers. What am I missing that they are not? I have done the lectures, reviewed my outline, I write out every wrong MBE answer and also the right ones. I also do every single essay assigned. I'm now hand-writing my outlines and MBE answers just to make sure I am really retaining this.

I am a repeat taker for IL and I am feeling discouraged. Any advice?


I'm a first time IL taker. I didn't do amazing on my Con Law MBE PQ's either. However, I've noticed I test better in Con Law when it's a mixed MBE set. I'm not sure if it's this way for everyone, but I test much better on mixed sets in test mode than subject specific MBE PQ's in interactive mode. So don't feel demoralized yet. It's still so early!

Also, don't be scared to take a few hours to just pound out a subject you're not good at. I spent 4 hours after work one night this week going through Con Law critical pass cards twice and having my husband teach me the difference between Privileges and Immunities and the Dormant Clause because I just wasn't getting it and it keeps coming up on practice questions. I also stopped hardcore reviewing subjects I'm averaging 70% or higher for (Crim Law, Crim Pro, and Torts).

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby Neilt001 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:12 pm

inyourhonor07 wrote:
tinabelcher wrote:Con Law MBE PQ Set 4- Am I the only one who got smoked by this set of questions? I felt pretty defeated after getting a dismal 40% on this set (I have been averaging 50-60% in my subjects, not great but not 40s either).

When I review the answers, some of the correct choices were things I have honestly never encountered before. Looking at the score comparison with other test takers, most are choosing the right answers. What am I missing that they are not? I have done the lectures, reviewed my outline, I write out every wrong MBE answer and also the right ones. I also do every single essay assigned. I'm now hand-writing my outlines and MBE answers just to make sure I am really retaining this.

I am a repeat taker for IL and I am feeling discouraged. Any advice?


I'm a first time IL taker. I didn't do amazing on my Con Law MBE PQ's either. However, I've noticed I test better in Con Law when it's a mixed MBE set. I'm not sure if it's this way for everyone, but I test much better on mixed sets in test mode than subject specific MBE PQ's in interactive mode. So don't feel demoralized yet. It's still so early!

Also, don't be scared to take a few hours to just pound out a subject you're not good at. I spent 4 hours after work one night this week going through Con Law critical pass cards twice and having my husband teach me the difference between Privileges and Immunities and the Dormant Clause because I just wasn't getting it and it keeps coming up on practice questions. I also stopped hardcore reviewing subjects I'm averaging 70% or higher for (Crim Law, Crim Pro, and Torts).


Yep totally agree! Lots of people(me included) find mixed MBEs easier. No idea why. Maybe the mind doens't get subject-fatigue that way.

Anyway, definitely a good approach to tailor your studying and drilling weaker subjects, and maybe spending less time on your stronger ones. Themis provides good analytics, including one which tells you avrg time spent per MBE question in any given subject. You can use this to ensure you're not spending too much time on your strengths and to decide where to increase you question answering time for your weaker subjects.

I also had Critical Pass. A good way to drill weaker subjects.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby inyourhonor07 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:18 am

Neilt001 wrote:
inyourhonor07 wrote:
tinabelcher wrote:Con Law MBE PQ Set 4- Am I the only one who got smoked by this set of questions? I felt pretty defeated after getting a dismal 40% on this set (I have been averaging 50-60% in my subjects, not great but not 40s either).

When I review the answers, some of the correct choices were things I have honestly never encountered before. Looking at the score comparison with other test takers, most are choosing the right answers. What am I missing that they are not? I have done the lectures, reviewed my outline, I write out every wrong MBE answer and also the right ones. I also do every single essay assigned. I'm now hand-writing my outlines and MBE answers just to make sure I am really retaining this.

I am a repeat taker for IL and I am feeling discouraged. Any advice?


I'm a first time IL taker. I didn't do amazing on my Con Law MBE PQ's either. However, I've noticed I test better in Con Law when it's a mixed MBE set. I'm not sure if it's this way for everyone, but I test much better on mixed sets in test mode than subject specific MBE PQ's in interactive mode. So don't feel demoralized yet. It's still so early!

Also, don't be scared to take a few hours to just pound out a subject you're not good at. I spent 4 hours after work one night this week going through Con Law critical pass cards twice and having my husband teach me the difference between Privileges and Immunities and the Dormant Clause because I just wasn't getting it and it keeps coming up on practice questions. I also stopped hardcore reviewing subjects I'm averaging 70% or higher for (Crim Law, Crim Pro, and Torts).


Yep totally agree! Lots of people(me included) find mixed MBEs easier. No idea why. Maybe the mind doens't get subject-fatigue that way.

Anyway, definitely a good approach to tailor your studying and drilling weaker subjects, and maybe spending less time on your stronger ones. Themis provides good analytics, including one which tells you avrg time spent per MBE question in any given subject. You can use this to ensure you're not spending too much time on your strengths and to decide where to increase you question answering time for your weaker subjects.

I also had Critical Pass. A good way to drill weaker subjects.


Hey Neil, did you always take the MBE exams after work when they were scheduled? I have my first one (Ks, Real Property, & Torts) tonight and I'm wondering if I should try to do it in the morning so it's similar to when I'll be taking the actual MBE or just do it tonight to see where I'm at.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby inyourhonor07 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:36 pm

inyourhonor07 wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:
inyourhonor07 wrote:
tinabelcher wrote:Con Law MBE PQ Set 4- Am I the only one who got smoked by this set of questions? I felt pretty defeated after getting a dismal 40% on this set (I have been averaging 50-60% in my subjects, not great but not 40s either).

When I review the answers, some of the correct choices were things I have honestly never encountered before. Looking at the score comparison with other test takers, most are choosing the right answers. What am I missing that they are not? I have done the lectures, reviewed my outline, I write out every wrong MBE answer and also the right ones. I also do every single essay assigned. I'm now hand-writing my outlines and MBE answers just to make sure I am really retaining this.

I am a repeat taker for IL and I am feeling discouraged. Any advice?


I'm a first time IL taker. I didn't do amazing on my Con Law MBE PQ's either. However, I've noticed I test better in Con Law when it's a mixed MBE set. I'm not sure if it's this way for everyone, but I test much better on mixed sets in test mode than subject specific MBE PQ's in interactive mode. So don't feel demoralized yet. It's still so early!

Also, don't be scared to take a few hours to just pound out a subject you're not good at. I spent 4 hours after work one night this week going through Con Law critical pass cards twice and having my husband teach me the difference between Privileges and Immunities and the Dormant Clause because I just wasn't getting it and it keeps coming up on practice questions. I also stopped hardcore reviewing subjects I'm averaging 70% or higher for (Crim Law, Crim Pro, and Torts).


Yep totally agree! Lots of people(me included) find mixed MBEs easier. No idea why. Maybe the mind doens't get subject-fatigue that way.

Anyway, definitely a good approach to tailor your studying and drilling weaker subjects, and maybe spending less time on your stronger ones. Themis provides good analytics, including one which tells you avrg time spent per MBE question in any given subject. You can use this to ensure you're not spending too much time on your strengths and to decide where to increase you question answering time for your weaker subjects.

I also had Critical Pass. A good way to drill weaker subjects.


Hey Neil, did you always take the MBE exams after work when they were scheduled? I have my first one (Ks, Real Property, & Torts) tonight and I'm wondering if I should try to do it in the morning so it's similar to when I'll be taking the actual MBE or just do it tonight to see where I'm at.


Welp, took the exam at 8 p.m. tonight and got a 51%. The goal was 60%. This is such a shitty feeling.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby Lancair » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:47 am

I did mine first thing in the morning (45 MBE questions was a more appealing thought than writing three essays in a row). I got 80%, which I am pretty pleased about. :D Although I stupidly missed one of the last ones by mixing up the language on a dismissal motion question.

Relieved that the pre-work I did before starting the course is translating to good marks on the practice exams. Would definitely put it down to that and doing lots of practice questions and carefully reviewing your errors - just cracked 700 today.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby Psmith0717 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:17 am

Start taking the exams in the morning the day after it is assigned that’s what I’m doing. I work full time as well and I’m more refreshed in the morning. I don’t think that score is an indication of your performance at all. Based on past posts we have generally been scoring around the same.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby washington_mystics » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:30 pm

What's everyone's strategies for memorising rule statements for the MEEs? Every time I write a graded essay, I'm just hitting blanks for the first ten minutes trying to bullshit the rule before digging into the analysis.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby longagotaker » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:23 pm

How is everyone doing on the graded essays? Is the goal all 4s to pass or can we pass with a mix of 3s and 4s? If you have taken the course before, is the grading pretty accurate?

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby inyourhonor07 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:46 pm

longagotaker wrote:How is everyone doing on the graded essays? Is the goal all 4s to pass or can we pass with a mix of 3s and 4s? If you have taken the course before, is the grading pretty accurate?


I got 4s on Contracts and Property. The property questions on that essay were very time consuming and I didn't hit submit until there were 2 seconds left. If you look through the threads on this forum, you'll see many people who consistently received 2s and 3s on the graded essays and still passed by a wide margin. I wouldn't sweat it if you've gotten a 4 and a 3.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby inyourhonor07 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:47 pm

Psmith0717 wrote:Start taking the exams in the morning the day after it is assigned that’s what I’m doing. I work full time as well and I’m more refreshed in the morning. I don’t think that score is an indication of your performance at all. Based on past posts we have generally been scoring around the same.


Thank you. I'll start taking them in the morning.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby longagotaker » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:52 pm

inyourhonor07 wrote:
longagotaker wrote:How is everyone doing on the graded essays? Is the goal all 4s to pass or can we pass with a mix of 3s and 4s? If you have taken the course before, is the grading pretty accurate?


I got 4s on Contracts and Property. The property questions on that essay were very time consuming and I didn't hit submit until there were 2 seconds left. If you look through the threads on this forum, you'll see many people who consistently received 2s and 3s on the graded essays and still passed by a wide margin. I wouldn't sweat it if you've gotten a 4 and a 3.


Thanks for your response. I just like to know what I'm aiming for and whether I'm on the right track. I got a 3 on the Contracts essay and a 5 on Property. I guess it averages to about the right place. Hopefully, Torts will be another area to pick up some points.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby Lancair » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:52 pm

longagotaker wrote:How is everyone doing on the graded essays? Is the goal all 4s to pass or can we pass with a mix of 3s and 4s? If you have taken the course before, is the grading pretty accurate?


I got 3 for contracts, 4 for real property, 6 for secured transactions. I was speaking to Themis this morning and they people who average 3 on the graded essays usually pass.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby longagotaker » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:40 pm

Lancair wrote:
longagotaker wrote:How is everyone doing on the graded essays? Is the goal all 4s to pass or can we pass with a mix of 3s and 4s? If you have taken the course before, is the grading pretty accurate?


I got 3 for contracts, 4 for real property, 6 for secured transactions. I was speaking to Themis this morning and they people who average 3 on the graded essays usually pass.


Thank you for passing this along. Exactly what I wanted to know!

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby Neilt001 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:07 pm

inyourhonor07 wrote:
Psmith0717 wrote:Start taking the exams in the morning the day after it is assigned that’s what I’m doing. I work full time as well and I’m more refreshed in the morning. I don’t think that score is an indication of your performance at all. Based on past posts we have generally been scoring around the same.


Thank you. I'll start taking them in the morning.


Hi there! Personally I did all my study after work cause I didn't want to wake up early to study before work. I can definitely see the logic in studying in the morning to simulate exam conditions, but I think it's all much of a muchness. If you study effectively it shouldn't matter much whether it's morning or night.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby Neilt001 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:13 pm

washington_mystics wrote:What's everyone's strategies for memorising rule statements for the MEEs? Every time I write a graded essay, I'm just hitting blanks for the first ten minutes trying to bullshit the rule before digging into the analysis.


Hi there! My personal approach was to print off the themis model answers, (delete fact-specific parts) and highlight/mark them up. Then do you very best to learn the rule statements and be able to regurgitate them when needed. Themis is good because it overs a lot of bases (not all of course) and you'll do well to learn the answers well. But also make sure you can BS. I scored in the 90th percentile on the written day and two of the six essays were complete BS cause I had no idea how to answer them properly. In your answers, make sure you spend lots of time applying rules to the facts.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby sg.cambs » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:37 am

Neilt001 wrote:
washington_mystics wrote:What's everyone's strategies for memorising rule statements for the MEEs? Every time I write a graded essay, I'm just hitting blanks for the first ten minutes trying to bullshit the rule before digging into the analysis.


Hi there! My personal approach was to print off the themis model answers, (delete fact-specific parts) and highlight/mark them up. Then do you very best to learn the rule statements and be able to regurgitate them when needed. Themis is good because it overs a lot of bases (not all of course) and you'll do well to learn the answers well. But also make sure you can BS. I scored in the 90th percentile on the written day and two of the six essays were complete BS cause I had no idea how to answer them properly. In your answers, make sure you spend lots of time applying rules to the facts.


Hi! Great shout on deleting facts from the model answers and studying from those. Prior to doing that, did you spend much time actually outlining or writing the essays? Similar to you last year, I'm working full time but struggling slightly in keeping up with lectures/my own outlines/practice essays/graded essays/workshops... Wondering what to prioritise.

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby frqw9201 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:06 pm

Is anyone selling Themis California books? or willing to email me the epub files they provide?

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby Pepp2019 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:09 am

I have Themis book for sale. DM me

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby zmg100 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:26 am

Hi everyone

Just a quick question. Are you reading the outlines for all the subjects? I really struggle to read them and take much in. I am a re taker and did read them all the last time but obviously don't remember much. I just feel like its a waste of time, however, saying that I do think there are nuances in there that aren't in the lectures.

Just interested to hear everyones approach.

Thanks!

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Re: THEMIS DISCUSSION - FEBRUARY 2019

Postby DodgerBlues1991 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:52 pm

zmg100 wrote:Hi everyone

Just a quick question. Are you reading the outlines for all the subjects? I really struggle to read them and take much in. I am a re taker and did read them all the last time but obviously don't remember much. I just feel like its a waste of time, however, saying that I do think there are nuances in there that aren't in the lectures.

Just interested to hear everyones approach.

Thanks!


I do not read them. I just go over the lecture notes I have from last time and try to re-type them and get them in my head. Just curious what percentage should we be at right now im about at 32% for course completion.



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