Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

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Lawworld19

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Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby Lawworld19 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:14 pm

My experience last week. MBE - Ehh, guessed on a ton. Who really knows. Essays, tested on more obscure topics than I though they would. Never "blanked" on any of my twelve essays, but many essays I had to bs with minimal knowledge, or really expand on the knowledge I had.
Managed to write full essays for every prompt though.

Do people who fail like leave out essays or what really is the threshold?

Do people who end up failing really know they failed?

max_p

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby max_p » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:22 pm

Also curious. I felt pretty good about the MBE and most of my essays. But that third essay killed me. Did not know one accurate point of law for the whole essay.

Lawworld19

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby Lawworld19 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:25 pm

max_p wrote:Also curious. I felt pretty good about the MBE and most of my essays. But that third essay killed me. Did not know one accurate point of law for the whole essay.



What state?

And on my state, Ohio, there were always at least 3/4 parts to each essay, sometimes up to 7ish parts. I always knew at least half pretty well of each essay. Most I knew 65%-75%+ of the on average 5 sub parts.

I just really don't know how they grade. If they grade like themis I am royally f'd.

max_p

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby max_p » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:29 pm

New Jersey (UBE). Our essays were essentially the same format as yours. I felt the same way as you too. For example, in a four part question there was always at least one question that I felt shaky on. I would imagine that 60-75% knowledge on the essays is in passing range. If people were expected to know more than 75% on every single essay then I think the pass rate would be much lower.

Lawworld19

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby Lawworld19 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:34 pm

max_p wrote:New Jersey (UBE). Our essays were essentially the same format as yours. I felt the same way as you too. For example, in a four part question there was always at least one question that I felt shaky on. I would imagine that 60-75% knowledge on the essays is in passing range. If people were expected to know more than 75% on every single essay then I think the pass rate would be much lower.



That is true. If people had to know that much, pass rates would be sub 50%.

cadreamer

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby cadreamer » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:57 pm

max_p wrote:Also curious. I felt pretty good about the MBE and most of my essays. But that third essay killed me. Did not know one accurate point of law for the whole essay.


nobody fails because of one essay.... you sound more than fine...

cadreamer

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby cadreamer » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:59 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:
max_p wrote:Also curious. I felt pretty good about the MBE and most of my essays. But that third essay killed me. Did not know one accurate point of law for the whole essay.



What state?

And on my state, Ohio, there were always at least 3/4 parts to each essay, sometimes up to 7ish parts. I always knew at least half pretty well of each essay. Most I knew 65%-75%+ of the on average 5 sub parts.

I just really don't know how they grade. If they grade like themis I am royally f'd.


There's plenty of scholarship on these boards discussing how these test prep companies grade harshly

Tony48

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby Tony48 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:48 am

I didn’t fail but I think most people “feel” like they failed. I know I did.

But if you put in a great deal of effort during your bar prep and studied like you should have, you’ll probably be fine.

rustyburger2

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby rustyburger2 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:30 am

Lawworld19 wrote:
max_p wrote:New Jersey (UBE). Our essays were essentially the same format as yours. I felt the same way as you too. For example, in a four part question there was always at least one question that I felt shaky on. I would imagine that 60-75% knowledge on the essays is in passing range. If people were expected to know more than 75% on every single essay then I think the pass rate would be much lower.



That is true. If people had to know that much, pass rates would be sub 50%.


I hope this is all true. These forums wig me out a bit – seems like most people go into the MEE expecting to be able to give accurate answers to all 6 questions.

I don't really have a bearing on whats average at all. There's a surprising lack of TLS discussion about it - most the talk seems to center around the MBE.

suicide_sally

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby suicide_sally » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:11 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:My experience last week. MBE - Ehh, guessed on a ton. Who really knows. Essays, tested on more obscure topics than I though they would. Never "blanked" on any of my twelve essays, but many essays I had to bs with minimal knowledge, or really expand on the knowledge I had.
Managed to write full essays for every prompt though.

Do people who fail like leave out essays or what really is the threshold?

Do people who end up failing really know they failed?


What constitutes a "passing" test has been very unpredictable in CA these past few few years due to the dishonesty and corruption of the folks in charge of this whole process. If you do fail, just recognize that it is more likely due to the state (and year) that you took the exam in, rather than an accurate assessment of your competency to practice law.

teaearlgreyhot

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby teaearlgreyhot » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:50 pm

I think the MEE is such a mystery because you only get a breakdown of your scores if you fail. If you pass, you get a total number, and an MBE score. From that you can figure out your written score, but it doesn't show you whether you scored roughly the same on all essays, or if you scored really high on one, which made up for a low score you had on another.

However, having failed (and thankfully passed) NY, I can give you some insight. For each of the essays and the MPTs, you want a score of approximately 50 (scores can range from 20 to 80). If you were above 50 on any essay or MPT, it is helping you toward passing, and if are below 50, it weighs you down. If you had somewhere in the range of 48 to 50 across the board, you would end up with a 133 written average, which is passing.

And, even if you leave an essay completely blank they don't give you a zero. They give you a scaled score around 29. (Obviously, this number is not constant, and could be higher or lower depending on the year you took it).

So, if you answered every essay with some confidence, you should feel good. If you felt great about one or two essays, but only so-so about the rest, you should still feel good. And if you think you bombed it all, well, you are not alone, and you will pass the next time!

rustyburger2

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby rustyburger2 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:30 pm

teaearlgreyhot wrote:And, even if you leave an essay completely blank they don't give you a zero. They give you a scaled score around 29. (Obviously, this number is not constant, and could be higher or lower depending on the year you took it).


Is this legit? If a blank essay merits a 30, then I'd imagine you're guaranteed a 50 if you at least put something down right?

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Wild Card

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby Wild Card » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:53 pm

teaearlgreyhot wrote:I think the MEE is such a mystery because you only get a breakdown of your scores if you fail. If you pass, you get a total number, and an MBE score. From that you can figure out your written score, but it doesn't show you whether you scored roughly the same on all essays, or if you scored really high on one, which made up for a low score you had on another.

However, having failed (and thankfully passed) NY, I can give you some insight. For each of the essays and the MPTs, you want a score of approximately 50 (scores can range from 20 to 80). If you were above 50 on any essay or MPT, it is helping you toward passing, and if are below 50, it weighs you down. If you had somewhere in the range of 48 to 50 across the board, you would end up with a 133 written average, which is passing.

And, even if you leave an essay completely blank they don't give you a zero. They give you a scaled score around 29. (Obviously, this number is not constant, and could be higher or lower depending on the year you took it).

So, if you answered every essay with some confidence, you should feel good. If you felt great about one or two essays, but only so-so about the rest, you should still feel good. And if you think you bombed it all, well, you are not alone, and you will pass the next time!


The problem is, none of us knows what score corresponds to what level of performance. While I wrote tolerable and correct answers for three out of six questions, I mangled the other three. What does one get for a solid showing? What does one get for partly or totally screwing up a question?

teaearlgreyhot

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby teaearlgreyhot » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:14 am

Wild Card wrote:
teaearlgreyhot wrote:I think the MEE is such a mystery because you only get a breakdown of your scores if you fail. If you pass, you get a total number, and an MBE score. From that you can figure out your written score, but it doesn't show you whether you scored roughly the same on all essays, or if you scored really high on one, which made up for a low score you had on another.

However, having failed (and thankfully passed) NY, I can give you some insight. For each of the essays and the MPTs, you want a score of approximately 50 (scores can range from 20 to 80). If you were above 50 on any essay or MPT, it is helping you toward passing, and if are below 50, it weighs you down. If you had somewhere in the range of 48 to 50 across the board, you would end up with a 133 written average, which is passing.

And, even if you leave an essay completely blank they don't give you a zero. They give you a scaled score around 29. (Obviously, this number is not constant, and could be higher or lower depending on the year you took it).

So, if you answered every essay with some confidence, you should feel good. If you felt great about one or two essays, but only so-so about the rest, you should still feel good. And if you think you bombed it all, well, you are not alone, and you will pass the next time!


The problem is, none of us knows what score corresponds to what level of performance. While I wrote tolerable and correct answers for three out of six questions, I mangled the other three. What does one get for a solid showing? What does one get for partly or totally screwing up a question?


This is the question that I don't think can ever be adequately answered because the people that pass don't get their written scores back. I can only give you anecdotal evidence based on the exam I failed because I received a breakdown of my score for each essay. I'm sorry, I know how stressful it is to be in the dark about all of this, and I am happy to talk to anyone privately that is having post-exam anxiety because I have certainly been there myself.

TheJuryMustDie

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Re: Besides CA - When you failed the bar did you know that you did?

Postby TheJuryMustDie » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:29 am

rustyburger2 wrote:
teaearlgreyhot wrote:And, even if you leave an essay completely blank they don't give you a zero. They give you a scaled score around 29. (Obviously, this number is not constant, and could be higher or lower depending on the year you took it).


Is this legit? If a blank essay merits a 30, then I'd imagine you're guaranteed a 50 if you at least put something down right?


You don't even get a 50 where you've correctly stated the rule but misapplied it to the facts. You at least, need to show an awareness of the legal area being tested to get a 30 and above.



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