Cheating on the bar exam

Discussions related to the bar exam are found in this forum
BarAttackIL

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:20 pm

Cheating on the bar exam

Postby BarAttackIL » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:58 pm

I just took the bar exam and saw some thangs.

The person sitting next to me was staring at the scantron of the person across from him. I know both well. They are my classmates but I am not close with them. Anyways, I know they cheated.

There are “forms” (1-10?) on the MBE. Will they get caught by a scantron machine? Should I report them? Is reporting anonymous? What are the penalties?

Thanks.

Cop2lawyerNYC

New
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:51 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby Cop2lawyerNYC » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:54 pm

BarAttackIL wrote:I just took the bar exam and saw some thangs.

The person sitting next to me was staring at the scantron of the person across from him. I know both well. They are my classmates but I am not close with them. Anyways, I know they cheated.

There are “forms” (1-10?) on the MBE. Will they get caught by a scantron machine? Should I report them? Is reporting anonymous? What are the penalties?

Thanks.


That’s dumb. Big risk in case it was a different scantron. Depending on how many questions the other person copied they have programs that can pick up anomalies.

micheleeb

New
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby micheleeb » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:05 pm

well, you signed a statement that said you did not observe anyone cheating and if you did you reported it to the proctor before the session ended.... you do recall writing that, right? ssssoooooooo..... why you asking this now? lol... Do whatever puts your conscious at ease!

Mobster1983

New
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby Mobster1983 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:06 pm

There are multiple test forms (I think 10 is correct). Both exams I took (two states) the test versions were distributed in such a way so that the people next to you had a different version. If he did cheat, his score probably won't be what he expects.

That said, you have an ethical (and maybe moral) dilemma on whether you report what you saw. Regardless of the fact that if he did copy off someone else he will probably fail, this raises questions of his ethics as an attorney. Reporting what you saw would probably open an investigation, which is likely to catch any illicit act (if he actually was cheating). Only you can decide if that is the course you personally would take.

snowlock

New
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:33 am

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby snowlock » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:06 pm

HA. Hope that the idiots tried to copy. Trust me. They alternate forms so people near each other get different versions of the MBE. Same questions, different order. No one near you has the same form version.

hockeyman969

Bronze
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:17 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby hockeyman969 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:11 pm

snowlock wrote:HA. Hope that the idiots tried to copy. Trust me. They alternate forms so people near each other get different versions of the MBE. Same questions, different order. No one near you has the same form version.


Always someone. I remember 2 years ago during MEE I was pounding out essays and all of a sudden I look up and there are 6 proctors surrounding someone and in a flash a supervisor was escorting the guy out and a person in a suit was holding the guy's laptop and his name was removed from the table. Did not return the next day.

BarAttackIL

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:20 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby BarAttackIL » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:31 pm

Cop2lawyerNYC wrote:
BarAttackIL wrote:I just took the bar exam and saw some thangs.

The person sitting next to me was staring at the scantron of the person across from him. I know both well. They are my classmates but I am not close with them. Anyways, I know they cheated.

There are “forms” (1-10?) on the MBE. Will they get caught by a scantron machine? Should I report them? Is reporting anonymous? What are the penalties?

Thanks.


That’s dumb. Big risk in case it was a different scantron. Depending on how many questions the other person copied they have programs that can pick up anomalies.

Thanks for the response. Do you know what would happen if I reported them?

User avatar
Calbears123

Bronze
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:38 am

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby Calbears123 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:33 pm

Girl next to me would write for a good 30 seconds - 1 minuet after time was called. Like 3 proctors for sure noticed because they stared right at her, but just walked away.

rustyburger2

New
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:12 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby rustyburger2 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:05 pm

I wouldn't report it. I doubt you can know for sure they guy was actually cheating. If he was sitting next to you how could you really tell where his eyes were looking at? And even if he was staring at the other person's scantron, you don't know that he wasn't just absentmindedly staring off into space.

If you're wrong, you will have ruined an innocent person's life. Just let it go - its not your job to be the morality police.

User avatar
axel.foley

Bronze
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:44 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby axel.foley » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:09 am

rustyburger2 wrote:I wouldn't report it. I doubt you can know for sure they guy was actually cheating. If he was sitting next to you how could you really tell where his eyes were looking at? And even if he was staring at the other person's scantron, you don't know that he wasn't just absentmindedly staring off into space.

If you're wrong, you will have ruined an innocent person's life. Just let it go - its not your job to be the morality police.


agree with this. if you were absolutely certain (e.g. you saw someone with a phone out in the bathroom), then there is a stronger obligation. but don't ruin someone's life when you could be misinterpreting what was going on.

Nightcrawler

Bronze
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby Nightcrawler » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:12 am

rustyburger2 wrote:I wouldn't report it. I doubt you can know for sure they guy was actually cheating. If he was sitting next to you how could you really tell where his eyes were looking at? And even if he was staring at the other person's scantron, you don't know that he wasn't just absentmindedly staring off into space.

If you're wrong, you will have ruined an innocent person's life. Just let it go - its not your job to be the morality police.

This.
Plus, they have different MBE forms just to avoid that. If the guy was cheating, he didn’t know about this, I assume. His punishment will be failing the bar already, no need to report. Also, I doubt anyone at the bar would care because of the same reason.

BarAttackIL

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:20 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby BarAttackIL » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:06 am

Nightcrawler wrote:
rustyburger2 wrote:I wouldn't report it. I doubt you can know for sure they guy was actually cheating. If he was sitting next to you how could you really tell where his eyes were looking at? And even if he was staring at the other person's scantron, you don't know that he wasn't just absentmindedly staring off into space.

If you're wrong, you will have ruined an innocent person's life. Just let it go - its not your job to be the morality police.

This.
Plus, they have different MBE forms just to avoid that. If the guy was cheating, he didn’t know about this, I assume. His punishment will be failing the bar already, no need to report. Also, I doubt anyone at the bar would care because of the same reason.


Is there something about not allowing someone to sit for the bar for a certain number of years?

Cati

New
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:01 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby Cati » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:21 am

I always wondered what stopped someone from hiding like a small review sheet in their pocket or bra and going to the bathroom (besides being a good ethical person?)

And honestly it’s inevitable to not see some else’s sheet at times. But, 99% it’s going to be a different form than yours. For example I was mid MBE looked up and the girl in from of me had her answer sheet way off to the side in the open. I saw the answer patterns didn’t look anything like mine, freaked out, saw my professional career flash before my eyes and then laughed because I remembered we all have different test forms. Mind you this all happened in .3 seconds.

I definitely think cheating is real, but it would be really dumb to try on the multiple choice.

sprintin23

New
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby sprintin23 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:12 am

You have a million other things to concern yourself with and reporting something you thought you saw is not one of them. Catching suspected cheaters during the exam is the proctor's job, not mine or yours. In addition, snitches get stitches and it would not be worth the hassle, especially if there is a chance you could be wrong.

sprintin23

New
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:22 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby sprintin23 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:26 am

Cati wrote:I always wondered what stopped someone from hiding like a small review sheet in their pocket or bra and going to the bathroom (besides being a good ethical person?)

And honestly it’s inevitable to not see some else’s sheet at times. But, 99% it’s going to be a different form than yours. For example I was mid MBE looked up and the girl in from of me had her answer sheet way off to the side in the open. I saw the answer patterns didn’t look anything like mine, freaked out, saw my professional career flash before my eyes and then laughed because I remembered we all have different test forms. Mind you this all happened in .3 seconds.

I definitely think cheating is real, but it would be really dumb to try on the multiple choice.


I don't understand why someone would want to cheat during the exam at all! You're willing to risk your professional future over a few points? It's just dumb. Worse comes to worse, you come back next session and rock it. I recall a woman in my state who kept writing after time was called and she was done for. No point in risking it.

User avatar
NoBladesNoBows

Silver
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:28 am

sprintin23 wrote:You have a million other things to concern yourself with and reporting something you thought you saw is not one of them. Catching suspected cheaters during the exam is the proctor's job, not mine or yours. In addition, snitches get stitches and it would not be worth the hassle, especially if there is a chance you could be wrong.

Yea I pretty much agree with this take. If you openly heard people discussing how they cheated, or saw someone in the bathroom looking shit up on their phone, that would be one thing. Thinking that you probably saw someone else looking at another's answer sheet that they wouldn't be able to cheat off of anyway . . . just let that go man.

nixy

Bronze
Posts: 412
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby nixy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:46 am

Cati wrote:I always wondered what stopped someone from hiding like a small review sheet in their pocket or bra and going to the bathroom (besides being a good ethical person?)

And honestly it’s inevitable to not see some else’s sheet at times. But, 99% it’s going to be a different form than yours. For example I was mid MBE looked up and the girl in from of me had her answer sheet way off to the side in the open. I saw the answer patterns didn’t look anything like mine, freaked out, saw my professional career flash before my eyes and then laughed because I remembered we all have different test forms. Mind you this all happened in .3 seconds.

I definitely think cheating is real, but it would be really dumb to try on the multiple choice.

Pretty sure that when/where I took it you had to empty ulur pockets on entrance (admittedly that doesn’t address the bra issue).

Cati

New
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:01 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby Cati » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:27 pm

nixy wrote:
Cati wrote:I always wondered what stopped someone from hiding like a small review sheet in their pocket or bra and going to the bathroom (besides being a good ethical person?)

And honestly it’s inevitable to not see some else’s sheet at times. But, 99% it’s going to be a different form than yours. For example I was mid MBE looked up and the girl in from of me had her answer sheet way off to the side in the open. I saw the answer patterns didn’t look anything like mine, freaked out, saw my professional career flash before my eyes and then laughed because I remembered we all have different test forms. Mind you this all happened in .3 seconds.

I definitely think cheating is real, but it would be really dumb to try on the multiple choice.

Pretty sure that when/where I took it you had to empty ulur pockets on entrance (admittedly that doesn’t address the bra issue).



True each state has their own rules. But I have a lot of yoga pants / athletic wear and I know a lot athletic wear has inside hidden pockets.
It was just a thought I had when I took my own bathroom breaks lol. But really, you know what you know. And the chances, even if you did make a “cheat sheet”, that the sheet would address the issues, is slim.

BarAttackIL

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:20 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby BarAttackIL » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:41 pm

What are the penalties for cheating on the bar exam? Anyone?

rustyburger2

New
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:12 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby rustyburger2 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:46 pm

BarAttackIL wrote:What are the penalties for cheating on the bar exam? Anyone?


It gets reported to C&F, and you'll probably never be an attorney.

Don't ruin someone's life because you think you saw something.

maroon175

Bronze
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:46 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby maroon175 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:50 pm

rustyburger2 wrote:
Don't ruin someone's life because you think you saw something.


Seriously. Should just let it go and enjoy your bar trip!

nixy

Bronze
Posts: 412
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby nixy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:20 pm

Cati wrote:
nixy wrote:
Cati wrote:I always wondered what stopped someone from hiding like a small review sheet in their pocket or bra and going to the bathroom (besides being a good ethical person?)

And honestly it’s inevitable to not see some else’s sheet at times. But, 99% it’s going to be a different form than yours. For example I was mid MBE looked up and the girl in from of me had her answer sheet way off to the side in the open. I saw the answer patterns didn’t look anything like mine, freaked out, saw my professional career flash before my eyes and then laughed because I remembered we all have different test forms. Mind you this all happened in .3 seconds.

I definitely think cheating is real, but it would be really dumb to try on the multiple choice.

Pretty sure that when/where I took it you had to empty ulur pockets on entrance (admittedly that doesn’t address the bra issue).



True each state has their own rules. But I have a lot of yoga pants / athletic wear and I know a lot athletic wear has inside hidden pockets.
It was just a thought I had when I took my own bathroom breaks lol. But really, you know what you know. And the chances, even if you did make a “cheat sheet”, that the sheet would address the issues, is slim.

Yeah, it’s probably possible, even if a bad idea that’s not really going to help!

User avatar
NoBladesNoBows

Silver
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:05 pm

I mean to be fair just reporting them wouldn't ruin their life. No reason to take some random person's word at face value, you might just have a grudge against the guy. I'm sure there'd be a pretty in-depth investigation where they compared that person's answers to the people around them.

But that said just don't do it, doesn't really make sense.

not guilty

Bronze
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:22 pm

Re: Cheating on the bar exam

Postby not guilty » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:08 pm

y'all posting in a troll thread or the least display of common sense i've ever seen.



Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests