THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

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Neilt001

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:12 am

smile0751 wrote:Just did Mixed Set 6. It's absolutely insane how many exceptions to the general rules there are. Even in this set this late in the game, at least 7 of the questions had brand new "gotcha" exceptions to general rules or brand new concepts. It's beyond frustrating!


This is how I felt when I was studying for Feb 2018. Even at a late stage in the game, I was still learning plenty of new exceptions every time I did an MBE practice session. I resigned myself to the fact that you'll never learn all the exceptions and you'll always get questions - whether in study or in the bar itself - that you simply don't know the answer to.

But ultimately, it's about getting around 66% of the Qs right, so there's actually plenty of room for error. You just need to know enough to pass. So don't worry and don't expect there to come a time when you finally know all the rules. It simply won't happen. But that doesn't mean you won't improve - so long as you learn from each mistake and make a note of the rules you got wrong or the exceptions you weren't aware of.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:16 am

LawIsLyfe33 wrote:Is anyone skipping the MBE Analysis Lectures? I don't think I can sit through 6 hours of lectures going through each question. I would much rather just review the exam on my own in less than half the time.


Agreed. That's one of those additional things on Themis that you can easily cut out to save time. The written explanations to each question are good enough.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:18 am

2015_Splitter wrote:
Pajsa18 wrote:Thank you for the explanation! The problem for me - I think - is the wording on the part where the JX has abandoned the requirement. I took it as the abandonment made it no longer necessary to "see" the accident despite not being in the zone - some of these questions are worded so that I don't get it, even when I "get it" if you know what I mean? Lol



I totally know what you mean, and I read it the same exact way as you and got it wrong for the same reason. There's quite a few I get wrong because I interpret the problem differently than Themis. Hopefully, the NCBE questions aren't open for interpretation lol.


I wouldn't count on it! I think Themis and NCBE Qs are pretty much the same, and in fact many Themis Qs are word-for-word NCBE Qs.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:22 am

2015_Splitter wrote:Strange Question - if we're taking the exam on laptop - do we get hard copies of the MEE portion?

For some reason, ExamSoft takes forever to load up on my laptop. It took a good 5-6 minutes for the practice exam to load up after I put in the password. I'm worried that I'd lose valuable time during the exam.

I'm paranoid because my examsoft froze during the NYLE, and I had to call in their tech hotline for them to open up the exam for me. I obviously won't have the opportunity to call their tech on exam day, and if it does take forever for the practice exam to start, I at least want to get started with a hard copy.


That's frustrating! Let's hope it holds up. Examsoft has staff on hand at the bar so hopefully they'll be able to sort you out.

And yes, the MEE/MPT come in hard copy only. Examsoft is only for entering your answers. It doesn't contain the questions.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby frqw9201 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:36 am

Mixed set 6 there is a question on unathorized practice of law, can anyone explain which one of the MBE topics that falls under?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby smile0751 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:11 am

frqw9201 wrote:Mixed set 6 there is a question on unathorized practice of law, can anyone explain which one of the MBE topics that falls under?


I didn't get that question, but generally I think it's covered under property? Property has a section on what real estate agents / mortgagee agents can and cannot do without it being considered the unauthorized practice of law.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Pajsa18 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 am

Why did I ever think becoming an attorney was a good idea?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Findedeux » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:24 pm

How many mixed sets are you guys doing/does directed study have you do?

I'm a bit behind and using flex study and will be starting mixed sets soon and noticed there are about 20 sets. I don't think I have enough time left to get through that many.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby lawbug123 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:43 pm

Pajsa18 wrote:Why did I ever think becoming an attorney was a good idea?


This is the first thing I thought of when I woke up today. Ugh.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:49 pm

Findedeux wrote:How many mixed sets are you guys doing/does directed study have you do?

I'm a bit behind and using flex study and will be starting mixed sets soon and noticed there are about 20 sets. I don't think I have enough time left to get through that many.

I average about 50 questions per day.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Pajsa18 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:58 pm

dabigchina wrote:
Findedeux wrote:How many mixed sets are you guys doing/does directed study have you do?

I'm a bit behind and using flex study and will be starting mixed sets soon and noticed there are about 20 sets. I don't think I have enough time left to get through that many.

I average about 50 questions per day.



+1

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Findedeux » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:09 pm

dabigchina wrote:
Findedeux wrote:How many mixed sets are you guys doing/does directed study have you do?

I'm a bit behind and using flex study and will be starting mixed sets soon and noticed there are about 20 sets. I don't think I have enough time left to get through that many.

I average about 50 questions per day.


Doing them all at once or reviewing after each question?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:16 pm

Findedeux wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
Findedeux wrote:How many mixed sets are you guys doing/does directed study have you do?

I'm a bit behind and using flex study and will be starting mixed sets soon and noticed there are about 20 sets. I don't think I have enough time left to get through that many.

I average about 50 questions per day.


Doing them all at once or reviewing after each question?

reviewing after every one. I find that I learn less when I have to review everything at once.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:57 pm

Findedeux wrote:How many mixed sets are you guys doing/does directed study have you do?

I'm a bit behind and using flex study and will be starting mixed sets soon and noticed there are about 20 sets. I don't think I have enough time left to get through that many.


How much % complete are you? I would say the final mixed sets are really the last leg of studying and don't necessarily need to be completed. You obviously increase your chances of passing and scoring higher the more you do, and it's definitely great to but Themis isn't designed to be completed 100% by everyone, so not the end of the world if you don't get all mixed sets done.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Tala29 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:09 pm

The plaintiff, the maker of an electronic device, filed a declaratory judgment action in federal district court against the defendant, the maker of a similar electronic device. The plaintiff sought a judgment that his device did not infringe on the defendant’s patent. The court’s subject matter jurisdiction was based on a federal question. The plaintiff was a citizen of the state in which the federal district court was located. The defendant, who was a citizen of a neighboring state, lived less than 100 miles from the forum court. Despite the defendant’s proximity to the forum court, the defendant was not subject to service of process in her home state for this action under the laws of the forum state. A process server employed by the plaintiff personally served the complaint and summons on the defendant in her home state. Federal patent law does not contain special service of process provisions. Does this service of process confer personal jurisdiction over the defendant on the federal district court?

Answer Choices:
Yes, because the court’s subject matter jurisdiction is based on a federal question.
Yes, because the “bulge provision” of Rule 4 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure applies.
No, because this is a declaratory judgment action.
No, because the defendant was not subject to service of process under the laws of the state in which the court is located.

So I know this might be a stupid question, but I don't get why it's D. I thought you can serve by a method either permitted in the state where the court sits or the federal rules. The federal rules specifically allow for personal service. (Is the problem that he was not served in the forum state personally?)

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Molj1987 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:24 pm

Tala29 wrote:The plaintiff, the maker of an electronic device, filed a declaratory judgment action in federal district court against the defendant, the maker of a similar electronic device. The plaintiff sought a judgment that his device did not infringe on the defendant’s patent. The court’s subject matter jurisdiction was based on a federal question. The plaintiff was a citizen of the state in which the federal district court was located. The defendant, who was a citizen of a neighboring state, lived less than 100 miles from the forum court. Despite the defendant’s proximity to the forum court, the defendant was not subject to service of process in her home state for this action under the laws of the forum state. A process server employed by the plaintiff personally served the complaint and summons on the defendant in her home state. Federal patent law does not contain special service of process provisions. Does this service of process confer personal jurisdiction over the defendant on the federal district court?

Answer Choices:
Yes, because the court’s subject matter jurisdiction is based on a federal question.
Yes, because the “bulge provision” of Rule 4 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure applies.
No, because this is a declaratory judgment action.
No, because the defendant was not subject to service of process under the laws of the state in which the court is located.

So I know this might be a stupid question, but I don't get why it's D. I thought you can serve by a method either permitted in the state where the court sits or the federal rules. The federal rules specifically allow for personal service. (Is the problem that he was not served in the forum state personally?)


Personal service is not the issue. The problem is that D was served out of the forum state. Unlike in cases where the bulge provision applies (impleader or indispensable parties), you have to be served in the forum state or in accordance with the state's laws; if forum state allowed service in another state to satisfy the requirement, it would be fine. Here, the state does not allow it. You could also just arrive at the answer by process of elimination: A is wrong becuase subject matter jurisdiciton has nothing to do with personal jurisdiciton. B is wrong because the bulge provision isn't applicable C is wrong because the fact that it is a dec action is immaterial. Thus, we are only left with D.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Findedeux » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:49 pm

Neilt001 wrote:
Findedeux wrote:How many mixed sets are you guys doing/does directed study have you do?

I'm a bit behind and using flex study and will be starting mixed sets soon and noticed there are about 20 sets. I don't think I have enough time left to get through that many.


How much % complete are you? I would say the final mixed sets are really the last leg of studying and don't necessarily need to be completed. You obviously increase your chances of passing and scoring higher the more you do, and it's definitely great to but Themis isn't designed to be completed 100% by everyone, so not the end of the world if you don't get all mixed sets done.


I'm at 50%.

For practical purposes I'm just a little behind on the written portion and a tad behind on the mbe (finished first two exams).

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Tala29 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:58 pm

Molj1987 wrote:
Tala29 wrote:The plaintiff, the maker of an electronic device, filed a declaratory judgment action in federal district court against the defendant, the maker of a similar electronic device. The plaintiff sought a judgment that his device did not infringe on the defendant’s patent. The court’s subject matter jurisdiction was based on a federal question. The plaintiff was a citizen of the state in which the federal district court was located. The defendant, who was a citizen of a neighboring state, lived less than 100 miles from the forum court. Despite the defendant’s proximity to the forum court, the defendant was not subject to service of process in her home state for this action under the laws of the forum state. A process server employed by the plaintiff personally served the complaint and summons on the defendant in her home state. Federal patent law does not contain special service of process provisions. Does this service of process confer personal jurisdiction over the defendant on the federal district court?

Answer Choices:
Yes, because the court’s subject matter jurisdiction is based on a federal question.
Yes, because the “bulge provision” of Rule 4 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure applies.
No, because this is a declaratory judgment action.
No, because the defendant was not subject to service of process under the laws of the state in which the court is located.

So I know this might be a stupid question, but I don't get why it's D. I thought you can serve by a method either permitted in the state where the court sits or the federal rules. The federal rules specifically allow for personal service. (Is the problem that he was not served in the forum state personally?)


Personal service is not the issue. The problem is that D was served out of the forum state. Unlike in cases where the bulge provision applies (impleader or indispensable parties), you have to be served in the forum state or in accordance with the state's laws; if forum state allowed service in another state to satisfy the requirement, it would be fine. Here, the state does not allow it. You could also just arrive at the answer by process of elimination: A is wrong becuase subject matter jurisdiciton has nothing to do with personal jurisdiciton. B is wrong because the bulge provision isn't applicable C is wrong because the fact that it is a dec action is immaterial. Thus, we are only left with D.



Yeah elimination worked easy her. Yeah that makes sense, it of course has to be personal service in the forum state! *sorry, my brain is so mush after doing this exam!

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby 2015_Splitter » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:11 pm

Neilt001 wrote:
2015_Splitter wrote:Strange Question - if we're taking the exam on laptop - do we get hard copies of the MEE portion?

For some reason, ExamSoft takes forever to load up on my laptop. It took a good 5-6 minutes for the practice exam to load up after I put in the password. I'm worried that I'd lose valuable time during the exam.

I'm paranoid because my examsoft froze during the NYLE, and I had to call in their tech hotline for them to open up the exam for me. I obviously won't have the opportunity to call their tech on exam day, and if it does take forever for the practice exam to start, I at least want to get started with a hard copy.


That's frustrating! Let's hope it holds up. Examsoft has staff on hand at the bar so hopefully they'll be able to sort you out.

And yes, the MEE/MPT come in hard copy only. Examsoft is only for entering your answers. It doesn't contain the questions.


Didn't know there'd be examsoft staff on hand - that makes me feel better, thanks for the tips!

Also, I think the 50 question problem sets are much harder than the practice tests. I scored a 71 and 73 on the recent practice test, but can't beat between 60-65% on the problem sets. It seems like these problem sets are testing really obscure exceptions and rules.

I noticed that I've been getting tripped up on answer choices between Void vs. Voidable contracts. So, I made a small table to categorize them. Anyone want to confirm if I have this right?

Void = Illegal Contract, Misunderstanding, Unconscionable

Voidable = Incapacity (incapacitated can void), Misstatement (even if intentional/fraud - harmed party can void), Mutual Mistake (both parties can void), Unilateral Mistake (mistaken party can void only if other party knew or should have known of the mistake and failed to remedy),

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby BlueLaw11 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:30 pm

Getting tested on the "Multiparty, Multiforum Trial Jurisdiction Act of 2002" in the MBQs feels cheap when it's never been mentioned previously... :?

I get why they're doing this, but I'm just starting to feel burned out and this sort of thing is frustrating

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby smile0751 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:46 pm

2015_Splitter wrote:
I noticed that I've been getting tripped up on answer choices between Void vs. Voidable contracts. So, I made a small table to categorize them. Anyone want to confirm if I have this right?

Void = Illegal Contract, Misunderstanding, Unconscionable

Voidable = Incapacity (incapacitated can void), Misstatement (even if intentional/fraud - harmed party can void), Mutual Mistake (both parties can void), Unilateral Mistake (mistaken party can void only if other party knew or should have known of the mistake and failed to remedy),


If a party is intoxicated and the other party knows --> Voidable by the intoxicated party

Minors --> void unless for necessities

Generally, if the other side knows of the condition (intoxication, mental illness, mistake), the contract is voidable only by the affected party. I like to think of it that the side who is aware that the other party is impaired accepted the risk and therefore can have the contract enforced against them.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby ithrowds » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:08 pm

smile0751 wrote:
2015_Splitter wrote:
I noticed that I've been getting tripped up on answer choices between Void vs. Voidable contracts. So, I made a small table to categorize them. Anyone want to confirm if I have this right?

Void = Illegal Contract, Misunderstanding, Unconscionable

Voidable = Incapacity (incapacitated can void), Misstatement (even if intentional/fraud - harmed party can void), Mutual Mistake (both parties can void), Unilateral Mistake (mistaken party can void only if other party knew or should have known of the mistake and failed to remedy),


If a party is intoxicated and the other party knows --> Voidable by the intoxicated party

Minors --> void unless for necessities

Generally, if the other side knows of the condition (intoxication, mental illness, mistake), the contract is voidable only by the affected party. I like to think of it that the side who is aware that the other party is impaired accepted the risk and therefore can have the contract enforced against them.


Aren't contracts with minors voidable by the minor?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Anyone else here taking California and finding some of these essay questions insanely obscure? I just did not one, but two Civ Pro essays that heavily revolved around discovery rules. Also did a Crim Pro question that heavily involved the determination of what is considered "testimony," which was barely touched upon.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby BlueLaw11 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:24 pm

dabigchina wrote:Anyone else here taking California and finding some of these essay questions insanely obscure? I just did not one, but two Civ Pro essays that heavily revolved around discovery rules. Also did a Crim Pro question that heavily involved the determination of what is considered "testimony," which was barely touched upon.


Agreed, some of these go into bizarrely specific concepts and it kinda freaks me out. Speaking of, have you had any Civ Pro essays concerning CA Civil Procedure? I haven't had any yet, I'm wondering if it's even worth taking the time learning the distinctions...

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:06 pm

BlueLaw11 wrote:
dabigchina wrote:Anyone else here taking California and finding some of these essay questions insanely obscure? I just did not one, but two Civ Pro essays that heavily revolved around discovery rules. Also did a Crim Pro question that heavily involved the determination of what is considered "testimony," which was barely touched upon.


Agreed, some of these go into bizarrely specific concepts and it kinda freaks me out. Speaking of, have you had any Civ Pro essays concerning CA Civil Procedure? I haven't had any yet, I'm wondering if it's even worth taking the time learning the distinctions...

I haven't seen a single one yet, and I think I have 1 more civ pro essay left. I'm thinking the same thing tbh.



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