THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

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EncyclopediaOrange

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby EncyclopediaOrange » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:16 pm

xhe02 wrote:Can someone help explain when a donee is protected under a recording act? I got this question wrong and am very confused. I thought donees are generally not protected under the recording statues. Is it because the claim arises after the deed was transferred?

thanks a lot!



Donee's who are the subsequent (second or third) acquirer's of title are not protected by recording acts because they are not purchasers for value. They are protected by the recording acts if they were the first one to acquire title and the recording act requirements are met.

A donee who records their deed immediately after receiving the deed will always be protected by any recording act against someone who purportedly buys the property later from the original owner.

For this question, the donee is protected by the recording act despite not having recorded the deed because the businessman will have inquiry notice imputed to him.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby xhe02 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:20 pm

EncyclopediaOrange wrote:
xhe02 wrote:Can someone help explain when a donee is protected under a recording act? I got this question wrong and am very confused. I thought donees are generally not protected under the recording statues. Is it because the claim arises after the deed was transferred?

thanks a lot!



Donee's who are the subsequent (second or third) acquirer's of title are not protected by recording acts because they are not purchasers for value. They are protected by the recording acts if they were the first one to acquire title and the recording act requirements are met.

A donee who records their deed immediately after receiving the deed will always be protected by any recording act against someone who purportedly buys the property later from the original owner.

For this question, the donee is protected by the recording act despite not having recorded the deed because the businessman will have inquiry notice imputed to him.


Thank you!

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Auxilio » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:55 pm

For this question:

A husband in divorce proceedings sought full physical custody of the couple’s two children. The husband asserted that the wife is an unreliable parent who cannot be trusted to care for the children. At a hearing on the custody issue, the husband seeks to call the wife’s former supervisor as a character witness against the wife, planning to elicit testimony to establish that the wife was, in his opinion, an unreliable employee, in order to show that the wife is not a reliable caregiver for the children. The wife’s attorney objects to the witness’s testimony.

Is the supervisor’s testimony admissible?

Answers:

No, because character evidence is not admissible in civil proceedings to prove that a person acted in conformity with that character trait.
You Selected: No, because it is neither relevant nor likely to lead to the discovery of relevant evidence.
Yes, because reputation evidence is admissible in civil proceedings.
Correct Answer: Yes, because the wife’s character is an essential element of the husband’s claim for custody.

I'm not saying I don't get why the answer is what it is (
[+] Spoiler
D, but does anyone else think that it's a pretty tenuous link between the evidence/trait at issue. Unreliable employee and unreliable mother are very different. Not to mention prejudicial concerns

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby jcwest » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:37 pm

Auxilio wrote:For this question:

A husband in divorce proceedings sought full physical custody of the couple’s two children. The husband asserted that the wife is an unreliable parent who cannot be trusted to care for the children. At a hearing on the custody issue, the husband seeks to call the wife’s former supervisor as a character witness against the wife, planning to elicit testimony to establish that the wife was, in his opinion, an unreliable employee, in order to show that the wife is not a reliable caregiver for the children. The wife’s attorney objects to the witness’s testimony.

Is the supervisor’s testimony admissible?

Answers:

No, because character evidence is not admissible in civil proceedings to prove that a person acted in conformity with that character trait.
You Selected: No, because it is neither relevant nor likely to lead to the discovery of relevant evidence.
Yes, because reputation evidence is admissible in civil proceedings.
Correct Answer: Yes, because the wife’s character is an essential element of the husband’s claim for custody.

I'm not saying I don't get why the answer is what it is (
[+] Spoiler
D, but does anyone else think that it's a pretty tenuous link between the evidence/trait at issue. Unreliable employee and unreliable mother are very different. Not to mention prejudicial concerns

Well, in barexamnistan, they used the word "unreliable" and "reliable" so its clearly an essential element. I got it right when I took it but my first thought was B.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby sproutz » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:39 pm

jcwest wrote:Stupid question but is anyone else hitting in the 70%-76% range on mixed sets and still feel like they don't know half this stuff well enough for the essay portion?


Literally in the exact same boat. It's really making me wish I had focused more on essays from the start.

Although I got my last Themis graded essay back today and it was 10 points higher than the best one I had submitted previously, so maybe it's getting in somewhere? Also though, Themis essay graders are trash, and they probably didn't even read the essay and just gave high marks as an attempt at a confidence boost going into the test.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby jcwest » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:44 pm

sproutz wrote:
jcwest wrote:Stupid question but is anyone else hitting in the 70%-76% range on mixed sets and still feel like they don't know half this stuff well enough for the essay portion?


Literally in the exact same boat. It's really making me wish I had focused more on essays from the start.

Although I got my last Themis graded essay back today and it was 10 points higher than the best one I had submitted previously, so maybe it's getting in somewhere? Also though, Themis essay graders are trash, and they probably didn't even read the essay and just gave high marks as an attempt at a confidence boost going into the test.

I actually got my worst score on the last essay, which is sad to say. I thought I wrote a beautiful wills essay.

Then... I saw the sample answer and realized a "contract will" was even a thing.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby deacon » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:51 pm

I know it has been discussed here, but I want to pop it up again, because I couldn't find the answer that I am looking for.

Are Themis questions similar to real MBE questions? When I did MPRE, I did both Themis and Barbri, and I found that Barbri was closer to the real exam questions. Now it makes me freaked out when I think that I will go to the exam, and the questions again would be formed in a different style. I am aware that I will get unfamiliar essays or MBE questions, but I just want to know what percentage of MBE roughly would be different than Themis questions.

I am debating whether I should do the FINZ MBE practice test, which means spending 6 hours, to see different questions, or just review the FROs.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Auxilio » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:54 pm

deacon wrote:I know it has been discussed here, but I want to pop it up again, because I couldn't find the answer that I am looking for.

Are Themis questions similar to real MBE questions? When I did MPRE, I did both Themis and Barbri, and I found that Barbri was closer to the real exam questions. Now it makes me freaked out when I think that I will go to the exam, and the questions again would be formed in a different style. I am aware that I will get unfamiliar essays or MBE questions, but I just want to know what percentage of MBE roughly would be different than Themis questions.

I am debating whether I should do the FINZ MBE practice test, which means spending 6 hours, to see different questions, or just review the FROs.


A bulk of the Themis questions are straight MBE questions (I believe 1000/3000). I'm not certain here, but I think a disproportionate amount of the additional 2000 are testing very specific exceptions.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby lawlurk » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:29 pm

jcwest wrote:
Auxilio wrote:For this question:

A husband in divorce proceedings sought full physical custody of the couple’s two children. The husband asserted that the wife is an unreliable parent who cannot be trusted to care for the children. At a hearing on the custody issue, the husband seeks to call the wife’s former supervisor as a character witness against the wife, planning to elicit testimony to establish that the wife was, in his opinion, an unreliable employee, in order to show that the wife is not a reliable caregiver for the children. The wife’s attorney objects to the witness’s testimony.

Is the supervisor’s testimony admissible?

Answers:

No, because character evidence is not admissible in civil proceedings to prove that a person acted in conformity with that character trait.
You Selected: No, because it is neither relevant nor likely to lead to the discovery of relevant evidence.
Yes, because reputation evidence is admissible in civil proceedings.
Correct Answer: Yes, because the wife’s character is an essential element of the husband’s claim for custody.

I'm not saying I don't get why the answer is what it is (
[+] Spoiler
D, but does anyone else think that it's a pretty tenuous link between the evidence/trait at issue. Unreliable employee and unreliable mother are very different. Not to mention prejudicial concerns

Well, in barexamnistan, they used the word "unreliable" and "reliable" so its clearly an essential element. I got it right when I took it but my first thought was B.


I chose the same answer for the same reasons. Although I thought the discovery bit with the answer was also suspect. lol Idk, I recognized it was an essential element, but thought its relevancy was def questionable.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby jcwest » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:52 pm

lawlurk wrote:
jcwest wrote:
Auxilio wrote:For this question:

A husband in divorce proceedings sought full physical custody of the couple’s two children. The husband asserted that the wife is an unreliable parent who cannot be trusted to care for the children. At a hearing on the custody issue, the husband seeks to call the wife’s former supervisor as a character witness against the wife, planning to elicit testimony to establish that the wife was, in his opinion, an unreliable employee, in order to show that the wife is not a reliable caregiver for the children. The wife’s attorney objects to the witness’s testimony.

Is the supervisor’s testimony admissible?

Answers:

No, because character evidence is not admissible in civil proceedings to prove that a person acted in conformity with that character trait.
You Selected: No, because it is neither relevant nor likely to lead to the discovery of relevant evidence.
Yes, because reputation evidence is admissible in civil proceedings.
Correct Answer: Yes, because the wife’s character is an essential element of the husband’s claim for custody.

I'm not saying I don't get why the answer is what it is (
[+] Spoiler
D, but does anyone else think that it's a pretty tenuous link between the evidence/trait at issue. Unreliable employee and unreliable mother are very different. Not to mention prejudicial concerns

Well, in barexamnistan, they used the word "unreliable" and "reliable" so its clearly an essential element. I got it right when I took it but my first thought was B.


I chose the same answer for the same reasons. Although I thought the discovery bit with the answer was also suspect. lol Idk, I recognized it was an essential element, but thought its relevancy was def questionable.
It's a tough line to walk. I hope the NCBE isn't as suspect between two answers. This is why I'm stuck at 70%-76% and not above 80%... all because I can't help but employ common sense from time to time. Then they make you stop employing common sense and it screws you on a random question. No winning here.

There was one question about specific performance between a buyer and seller for a rare venom. Of course the only other seller is "overseas," whatever that means. On day 1 of this, I would have picked specific performance but I definitely picked that damages were reasonable and specific performance was not.

One of the those good ole face meets palm moments.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby EncyclopediaOrange » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:12 pm

jcwest wrote:One of the those good ole face meets palm moments.


That question was annoying. I'm definitely overthinking way too many questions.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby thisiswater » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:27 pm

sorry to come in late that may have already been answered but i didn't see it. do we have any clue how scores on practice exam 4 or some of the other mixed sets might translate to the real test?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby deacon » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:28 pm

Auxilio wrote:
deacon wrote:I know it has been discussed here, but I want to pop it up again, because I couldn't find the answer that I am looking for.

Are Themis questions similar to real MBE questions? When I did MPRE, I did both Themis and Barbri, and I found that Barbri was closer to the real exam questions. Now it makes me freaked out when I think that I will go to the exam, and the questions again would be formed in a different style. I am aware that I will get unfamiliar essays or MBE questions, but I just want to know what percentage of MBE roughly would be different than Themis questions.

I am debating whether I should do the FINZ MBE practice test, which means spending 6 hours, to see different questions, or just review the FROs.


A bulk of the Themis questions are straight MBE questions (I believe 1000/3000). I'm not certain here, but I think a disproportionate amount of the additional 2000 are testing very specific exceptions.


Thank you. I've bought a 100Q practice exam from NCBE store. I will take it tomorrow and see how it plays out.I will post my opinions afterwards

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Itwasascam » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:37 am

I was under the impression that info about a recall can be used to prove fault but the correct answer is apparently D. Explanation?

A consumer sued a kitchen appliance manufacturer for damages she suffered when her coffee grinder malfunctioned and injured her hand one month after she purchased it. Two weeks later, the manufacturer of the grinder released a product recall for that model of coffee grinder. At trial, the consumer seeks to offer an authenticated copy of the manufacturer’s press release concerning the product recall as evidence of a defect in the grinder. The manufacturer has objected to the admission of the press release.

Is the press release admissible to prove that the coffee grinder was defective?

A
Yes, as an admission by a party opponent.

B
Yes, because the press release is relevant and not unfairly prejudicial.

C
No, because the press release is hearsay not within an exception.

D
No, because evidence of subsequent remedial measures is not admissible to show a defect.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby EncyclopediaOrange » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:49 am

Itwasascam wrote:I was under the impression that info about a recall can be used to prove fault but the correct answer is apparently D. Explanation?



I think the only explanation I can give is that it just can't. It falls within the rule against subsequent remedial measures (because we want business to issue recalls to protect more people).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_407

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Omerta » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:56 am

Itwasascam wrote:I was under the impression that info about a recall can be used to prove fault but the correct answer is apparently D. Explanation?

A consumer sued a kitchen appliance manufacturer for damages she suffered when her coffee grinder malfunctioned and injured her hand one month after she purchased it. Two weeks later, the manufacturer of the grinder released a product recall for that model of coffee grinder. At trial, the consumer seeks to offer an authenticated copy of the manufacturer’s press release concerning the product recall as evidence of a defect in the grinder. The manufacturer has objected to the admission of the press release.

Is the press release admissible to prove that the coffee grinder was defective?

A
Yes, as an admission by a party opponent.

B
Yes, because the press release is relevant and not unfairly prejudicial.

C
No, because the press release is hearsay not within an exception.

D
No, because evidence of subsequent remedial measures is not admissible to show a defect.


It's one of those stupid questions where the description tells you it's being admitted for an improper purpose--see the bolded part of the question. Recalls (and other actions) can be admitted to show feasibility of precaution, ownership, control, etc., but it can't be used as evidence that a defect existed. Themis loves to include evidence question that goes like this:

[fact pattern clearly establishing grounds for exception/permissible purpose]. Party wants to introduce evidence to show [propensity, acts in conformity, defect, or other stuff that's explicitly forbidden by the applicable rule]. How should the court rule?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:08 am

smile0751 wrote:Similar to the above comment, when should we feel "safe" about our performance? Like what performance on practice sets or practice essays makes it REALLY unlikely that we won't pass?


I would say if you're scoring in the 60s, especially mid-60s or higher, than you're safe. Your score will always be higher on the actual MBE, and you basically just need around a 66% (or at least in New York). So even low 60s will usually be ok. I could never score above 68% on Themis (and had plenty of lower scores, which made me very worried) but ended up in the 85th percentile.

I can't speak to scores lower than 60%. I think you may have an issue at that stage.

Themis has a great pass rate though, so if you're in the 60s like everyone else, you'll be fine.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby unsweetened » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:20 am

jcwest wrote:
lawlurk wrote:
jcwest wrote:
Auxilio wrote:For this question:

A husband in divorce proceedings sought full physical custody of the couple’s two children. The husband asserted that the wife is an unreliable parent who cannot be trusted to care for the children. At a hearing on the custody issue, the husband seeks to call the wife’s former supervisor as a character witness against the wife, planning to elicit testimony to establish that the wife was, in his opinion, an unreliable employee, in order to show that the wife is not a reliable caregiver for the children. The wife’s attorney objects to the witness’s testimony.

Is the supervisor’s testimony admissible?

Answers:

No, because character evidence is not admissible in civil proceedings to prove that a person acted in conformity with that character trait.
You Selected: No, because it is neither relevant nor likely to lead to the discovery of relevant evidence.
Yes, because reputation evidence is admissible in civil proceedings.
Correct Answer: Yes, because the wife’s character is an essential element of the husband’s claim for custody.

I'm not saying I don't get why the answer is what it is (
[+] Spoiler
D, but does anyone else think that it's a pretty tenuous link between the evidence/trait at issue. Unreliable employee and unreliable mother are very different. Not to mention prejudicial concerns

Well, in barexamnistan, they used the word "unreliable" and "reliable" so its clearly an essential element. I got it right when I took it but my first thought was B.


I chose the same answer for the same reasons. Although I thought the discovery bit with the answer was also suspect. lol Idk, I recognized it was an essential element, but thought its relevancy was def questionable.
It's a tough line to walk. I hope the NCBE isn't as suspect between two answers. This is why I'm stuck at 70%-76% and not above 80%... all because I can't help but employ common sense from time to time. Then they make you stop employing common sense and it screws you on a random question. No winning here.

There was one question about specific performance between a buyer and seller for a rare venom. Of course the only other seller is "overseas," whatever that means. On day 1 of this, I would have picked specific performance but I definitely picked that damages were reasonable and specific performance was not.

One of the those good ole face meets palm moments.

When I read an answer to a question I got wrong and the explanation begins with "arguably," it's endlessly frustrating. IMO that's BS. For an objective multiple choice question, it ought to be right or wrong, not arguably right or wrong.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Great45 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:46 am

Neilt001 wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Similar to the above comment, when should we feel "safe" about our performance? Like what performance on practice sets or practice essays makes it REALLY unlikely that we won't pass?


I would say if you're scoring in the 60s, especially mid-60s or higher, than you're safe. Your score will always be higher on the actual MBE, and you basically just need around a 66% (or at least in New York). So even low 60s will usually be ok. I could never score above 68% on Themis (and had plenty of lower scores, which made me very worried) but ended up in the 85th percentile.

I can't speak to scores lower than 60%. I think you may have an issue at that stage.

Themis has a great pass rate though, so if you're in the 60s like everyone else, you'll be fine.


Calculating my mixed sets, I'd say my average is 67% but I don't necessarily feel complete confidence heading down the final stretch. The 21 question set from the NCBE did ease my mind a little since I got 76% right, but that is obviously a very small sample size. Did you feel confident that you were adequately prepared for the MBE on exam day, or were pleasantly surprised with your score. (As I'm hoping to be lol)

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:13 am

Great45 wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Similar to the above comment, when should we feel "safe" about our performance? Like what performance on practice sets or practice essays makes it REALLY unlikely that we won't pass?


I would say if you're scoring in the 60s, especially mid-60s or higher, than you're safe. Your score will always be higher on the actual MBE, and you basically just need around a 66% (or at least in New York). So even low 60s will usually be ok. I could never score above 68% on Themis (and had plenty of lower scores, which made me very worried) but ended up in the 85th percentile.

I can't speak to scores lower than 60%. I think you may have an issue at that stage.

Themis has a great pass rate though, so if you're in the 60s like everyone else, you'll be fine.


Calculating my mixed sets, I'd say my average is 67% but I don't necessarily feel complete confidence heading down the final stretch. The 21 question set from the NCBE did ease my mind a little since I got 76% right, but that is obviously a very small sample size. Did you feel confident that you were adequately prepared for the MBE on exam day, or were pleasantly surprised with your score. (As I'm hoping to be lol)


Good question! You're actually very similar to me. I scored around 68% on themis and then ended the MBE with a raw score of around 76%, so that's a pretty typical bump I think.

And nope, I did not feel confident going in at all. The reason is because you can never learn all the rules and you will always no matter what be confronted with rules you've never learned before. I was learning new rules on my MBE study right up to the exam.

After the morning session, I felt pretty good and actually thought I may pass. But then the afternoon session happened, and all my hopes were dashed - it was brutal for everyone. There was even a mortgages question that took up an entire page!!! So I left the exam with no clue, but not feeling great.

But yeah, I was pleasantly surprised. Judging by your grades, you'll definitely pass the MBE. The question is by how much...

good luck!

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby jawaharlaw nehru » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:26 am

fyi mixed set 17 is the same for everyone, if people want to compare themselves some more

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:49 pm

jawaharlaw nehru wrote:fyi mixed set 17 is the same for everyone, if people want to compare themselves some more

How do you know?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Pajsa18 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:56 pm

Is everyone studying all MEE subjects or just the ones recommending by JD advising?

It's just so much info.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:42 pm

Pajsa18 wrote:Is everyone studying all MEE subjects or just the ones recommending by JD advising?

It's just so much info.


It goes without saying that it's impossible to predict.

But I will say this: the gain derived from studying all subjects (even if it's an information overload) is greater than the gain derived from excluding some subjects in order to strengthen others.

Or in other words: the detriment that could flow from excluding subjects from study is greater than the detriment that could flow from moderately knowing all subjects. (If that makes sense!?)

This is because the MEE is about general competence and ability to bullshit/IRAC/issue spot/apply facts, etc, rather than about getting it exactly right. I bullshitted two essays on the Feb 2018 MEE and still did really well.

The fact is that it's much more scary to get a question/topic that you have never studied, than it is to get a subject you only know superficially. In the former case, you're kinda fucked. In the latter you're gonna pass.

Moreover, your ability to memorize is better than you think. You should be able to learn all subjects to an adequate degree in order to pass, without sacrificing.

On the other hand, if you're literally out of time, then by all means stick to the JD advising recommendations because they have a decent record.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby LawIsLyfe33 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:59 pm

jawaharlaw nehru wrote:fyi mixed set 17 is the same for everyone, if people want to compare themselves some more


I thought it was more difficult than usual while doing it, but I came out with the same score that I have been testing at the past few mixed sets and same score as the simulated MBE Practice Test 3.



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