THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

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dabigchina

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:39 pm

Wow so Themis totally changed the question they asked for #71 on exam 4. Why would they do that.

lawlurk

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby lawlurk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:50 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:
lawlurk wrote:Practice test #4 was not cute.

How everyone do?



Not good haha. So don't feel bad.



Ah, I feel slightly vindicated having discovered I entered in one of my bubbled answers into Themis totally wrong. I am my own worse enemy lol

deacon

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby deacon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:51 pm

I am studying Critical Pass Torts cards. For IIED, it says if D is a common carrier or innkeeper, non-outrageous conduct may suffice the IIED element. Could anyone give me an example? I know common carriers have a special situation under NIED, but haven't seen under IIED.

deacon

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby deacon » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:04 am

deacon wrote:I am studying Critical Pass Torts cards. For IIED, it says if D is a common carrier or innkeeper, non-outrageous conduct may suffice the IIED element. Could anyone give me an example? I know common carriers have a special situation under NIED, but haven't seen under IIED.



OK checked the Barbri outlines and find one
"e.g.bus driver making insulting remarks to passenger."

lawlurk

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby lawlurk » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:15 am

Lawworld19 wrote:Anyone just getting bored/tired of studying?

Not because I know everything, just unfortunately burning out a little.

Also, got a 29/50 on the NCBE recently released questions so far. Not good. Hoping they are harder than the real test. I score higher with themis.


Where are the recently released questions? Im assuming you paid for these? Only saw the 21 "sample test questions" for free.

abogado2018

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby abogado2018 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:41 am

deacon wrote:
deacon wrote:I am studying Critical Pass Torts cards. For IIED, it says if D is a common carrier or innkeeper, non-outrageous conduct may suffice the IIED element. Could anyone give me an example? I know common carriers have a special situation under NIED, but haven't seen under IIED.



OK checked the Barbri outlines and find one
"e.g.bus driver making insulting remarks to passenger."


1) Airplane pilot says jokingly over the intercom "oh no we've been hijacked! LOL JK THE FASTEN SEATBELT SIGN IS NOW OFF"

2) Innkeeper tells guests "there was a horrific murder in the room you're staying in but not to worry, there probably won't be ghosts or anything"

deacon

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby deacon » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:51 am

abogado2018 wrote:
deacon wrote:
deacon wrote:I am studying Critical Pass Torts cards. For IIED, it says if D is a common carrier or innkeeper, non-outrageous conduct may suffice the IIED element. Could anyone give me an example? I know common carriers have a special situation under NIED, but haven't seen under IIED.



OK checked the Barbri outlines and find one
"e.g.bus driver making insulting remarks to passenger."


1) Airplane pilot says jokingly over the intercom "oh no we've been hijacked! LOL JK THE FASTEN SEATBELT SIGN IS NOW OFF"

2) Innkeeper tells guests "there was a horrific murder in the room you're staying in but not to worry, there probably won't be ghosts or anything"



Thank you!!

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Neilt001

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:44 am

jcwest wrote:Alright, I have a question. How indicative are the essays we have been given through Themis of what will be on the Bar?

For instance, just locked up Secured Transactions and I have gone through all the essays. Not one essay talked about a time period for re-filing a financing statement, the exact contents of a financing statement (seriously misleading, etc) or security agreement for that matter, a lien creditor (one mentioned a general creditor)... etc. In fact, every essay, and I mean every, has a bank or lender who attaches and files a financing statement and some other tools who try to hide their security interest as a lease or just ignore it entirely.

Like, If I know the elements of attachment, perfection, priority, and enforcement... sprinkled in with "first in time", "case by case", "security agreement in existence"... can I move on? --> and apply this same logic to every other essay subject that is not MBE.


I think that's right. While it's dangerous to completely exclude certain details, I think it's safe to say you probably won't get a question on the precise contents of a filing statement. You will generally be tested on the main elements primarily, and this is where you'll score your points and pass the MEE. But there may be a sub-question or two on a more detailed aspect of a subject.

As I've said before, I wrote in Feb 2018 and there were two questions that were out of left field for me (a civ pro question on sanctions against an associate, his partner and the firm, and a question about an offender's capacity to stand trial). I hadn't studied this stuff at all because I thought it was peripheral to the main issues.

So it's fine to confine your study to the big picture and the main elements, but be at least somewhat prepared for more random/unfamiliar questions. At least be aware of those matters, even if you're not totally across them. And never underestimate the power of bullshitting the MEE.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby kmn » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:00 am

Neilt001 wrote:
jcwest wrote: And never underestimate the power of bullshitting the MEE.


I literally created an account to ask if you have specific recommendations for bullshitting the MEE.

I took and passed the CT bar in 2013 and am taking the UBE in MA after not practicing law for the past three years. I have a toddler, I work, and my brain is fried. I am getting 60-65% on the MBE mixed question sets and can't seem to get anything to stick in my head! I know almost nothing about secured transactions and corporations. Freaking out because I just have NO desire to go through this again but also no confidence. I need a 270 to pass.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby RecruiterMan » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:02 am

I was thinking y'all were overstating how ridiculous the questions get later on but I went from consistently scoring 75-85% on my question sets (including on practice exam 4) but now I hit a 64% on set 9 yesterday and 56% on 11 today, wtf???

LawIsLyfe33

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby LawIsLyfe33 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:05 am

fuuuuuuuuuu wrote:Getting 78-80% on all the practice sets so far (including the 100 question set) with literally no change in the percentage, but everyone keeps saying the sets get harder so I'm waiting for that one set to bring me down...

I did the NCBE 21 question set, but it seems I ran into most of those questions when I was doing the questions on Themis, which was a bummer because I remembered the answers. There's the 10 civ pro questions on NCBE (http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2 ... ument%2F16) which made me feel way better. Doesn't seem as hard as some of the ones we've seen on Themis.

As for MEEs, I just did the lectures way back when and just focused on memorizing what the essays have provided me with. I figure they'll cover most of everything they usually throw at you, right...? Over my dead body will I read more than I have to. I did the same for FL bar, and turned out fine.


Ayy I average 49% on Themis Civ Pro questions but got an 8/10 on this.

Lawworld19

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:30 am

I wrote this essay in a hurry and I understand it sucks.

Really before I went thru the full outline for Wills. But I still hit most of the main points.

But I got a damn 1 out of 7 from Themis, here it is. (Ohio grades 1 out of 7)


In Ohio, a will is valid when a testator understands they are entering into a will, and what property and monies they are going to inevitably distribute to the beneficiaries listed. Also, a will must be signed by two disinterested witnesses, and signed at the end of the last will and testament. Ohio tries to honor the wishes of the testator even if the will is missing certain required formalities.

1. Lilly may challenge Grandma's will on the basis of the will not being properly signed.
In Ohio, a will must usually be contested within three months after the death of the testator.
Here, the will was signed properly by two disinterested witnesses at the end of the will, but Grandma signed the will at the end of the first page. This goes against the rules set out by the state of Ohio. The signature needs to be at the end of the legal document for the will to be properly executed.

Although this is true, Ohio allows the use of the harmless error rule. The harmless error rules allows a party to have the will in question enforced if it can be proven that the testator intended to execute the will, understands the basic working of the will, and understands the distributions which are implemented through the will. Here, a probate court would most likely determine that the harmless error rule will apply. The fact pattern points to Grandma fully wanting, understanding, and accepting the intent to engage in the creation of the will and have it executed. This was most likely a harmless error. Therefore, Lilly most likely will not be able to validly win on contesting the will due to the first page signature issue.

2. Lilly would most likely not be able to contest the will based on Undue influence, fraud, or delusion.

Lilly might assert that Grandma was influenced by Sally to execute the will in the way in which it was executed. This most likely will fail. Undue Influence can be brought when there is a relationship where one party manipulates, influences or constructively forces someone into making a decision they might not have but for that inappropriate coercion. A special relationship may help to show undue influence was present.
Here, the will was executed at the direction of Grandma, not Sally. Grandma told Sally that she wanted a will, and Sally recommended the lawyer. The fact pattern does not state that the relationship between the attorney and Sally would subject Grandma to any wrong doing, bias etc. Grandma's clear intent to enter into the will and execute the will, will most likely cause the contested will action to fail.

Here, again, there was no mention of any facts that imply fraud. Fraud is when one party misrepresents a fact (by inducement or in the execution) and the other party acts in accordance with that inappropriate information or act to do something they wouldn't have done if the fraud was not present. Here, Grandma entered into the will with clear intent.

Again, the will will most likely not be contested for delusion. A delusion or the testator not being in the right state of mind may be brought to contest a will if the contestant can show that the testator did not have the proper intent to enter into the will, making the will invalid. Here, Grandma showed competence, and even told Lilly that she preferred speaking with Sally. Considering her sharp thinking, and lack of any behavior of not knowing what was arising at any given time, the will contested by Lilly on the basis of delusion will most likely be denied.

Lawworld19

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:31 am

Here is the model answer, which granted is really good.

I just can't believe that is a one. If it was no one would get a 6-7.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:32 am

Improper Execution: To validly execute a will in Ohio, the following requirements must be met: (i) the will must be in writing; (ii) it must be signed at the end by the testator; (iii) and it must be attested to in the presence of the testator by two or more competent witnesses who are at least 18 years old. Here, the will was in writing, and it was witnessed and signed by her two neighbors in Grandma’s presence. However, Grandma signed the will at the bottom of the first page instead of at the end of the will. Ohio has adopted a harmless error statute that states that a will that is not executed in strict compliance with the execution requirements may still be admitted to probate if there is clear and convincing evidence that: (i) the testator prepared the will or ordered that it be prepared; (ii) the testator signed the will with the intent to make it her will; and (iii) two or more people witnessed the testator sign the will. Here, Grandma asked the lawyer to prepare the will, and while she signed at the bottom of the first page, she signed it with the intent to make it her will. She was awake and sitting up in bed and appears to have known her neighbors were there to be witnesses. Since Grandma’s estate can establish by clear and convincing evidence that these requirements were met, Lily’s improper execution challenge will fail.

Lack of Capacity: Lily will also challenge the will claiming Grandma lacked testamentary capacity. To succeed in her challenge Lily must demonstrate that: Grandma did not (i) understand the nature of her act; (ii) understand the nature and extent of her property; (iii) know the names and identities of those who have natural claims on her bounty; and (iv) appreciate her relationship to her family members. In this case, there are no facts indicating that Grandma did not understand the nature of her act in executing the will or that she did not understand the nature and extent of her property. Furthermore, while Grandma sometimes called Sally by Lily’s name, she would catch herself, which indicates that she in fact knew the names and identities of those who had natural claims on her bounty. In addition, Grandma thought Sally reminded her of Lily, but said she preferred Sally’s company over Lily’s, which indicates that she understood and appreciated her relationship to her various family members. Since Lily cannot successfully demonstrate the requirements to prove lack of testamentary capacity, she will lose.

Undue Influence: A will is invalid if it was drafted as a result of undue influence. To establish undue influence, Lily must prove (i) that Grandma was susceptible to undue influence; (ii) Sally had opportunity to exert undue influence; (iii) Sally in fact exerted improper influence; and (iv) the will shows the effect of such influence. Here, the fact that Grandma was in her late 80‘s when she created her will does not by itself indicate she was susceptible to undue influence. Lily would have to show Grandma’s mind was overpowered, and there are no facts indicating this. In fact, it was Grandma who asked for a lawyer, and she is the one who spoke with him when he came to her home. While it may appear that Sally had opportunity to exert undue influence since she moved in with Grandma, she only took care of Grandma and never discussed with Grandma to whom she should leave her estate. Sally also did not exert any improper influence. When asked to find a lawyer, she did so and never said a word when Grandma met with the lawyer. During the execution of the will, Sally spoke only when reading the instructions prepared by the lawyer. While Grandma’s will does leave everything to Sally, it does not show the effect of Sally’s undue influence. It was the result of Grandma wanting to leave her property to her niece who cared for her. Lily will not be able to prove the elements of undue influence and will lose on this challenge.

LawIsLyfe33

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby LawIsLyfe33 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:35 am

Lawworld19 wrote:I wrote this essay in a hurry and I understand it sucks.

Really before I went thru the full outline for Wills. But I still hit most of the main points.

But I got a damn 1 out of 7 from Themis, here it is. (Ohio grades 1 out of 7)




I honestly would put close to zero stock in Themis essay graders. I have gotten a 5/20, 5/20, 10/20, 11/20, and a 4/20 on my graded PA essays. (need a 12/20 average to be on pace to pass)

There is just absolutely no way that's accurate or even close to accurate. Is there someone at your law school (like the faculty in charge of bar stuff) that you could reach out to and send them the essay and ask them to grade it for you? That's what I had to do because my Themis grader was ruining all sense of confidence for me.

Lawworld19

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:36 am

I'm not trying to be a bitch but I mean I hit the main points, the graders would at least have to give me a 2-3 out of 7 for that essay. I don't see how that is a 1 out of 7. I mean, makes no sense.

Grader just said it sucks practically hahaha.

jcwest

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby jcwest » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:19 pm

Subjectivity of graders, man. From my understanding, as long as you write something coherent that answers the question, even if wrong, you'll do well enough to pass. Passing is a D-.

I just turned in the last graded essay, wills/decedent's estates, and went a completely different direction but I used 80% of the key words. We'll see how that turns out.

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MGH1989

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby MGH1989 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:39 pm

Anyone want to talk me off the ledge about Secured Transactions? I neglected it too much and now I am trying to become somewhat competent in it before the exam. Should I just focus on Defining the interest, attachment, and perfection? I'm really just trying to learn it enough where I can get a couple of points on ST essay if it comes up.

deacon

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby deacon » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:35 pm

MGH1989 wrote:Anyone want to talk me off the ledge about Secured Transactions? I neglected it too much and now I am trying to become somewhat competent in it before the exam. Should I just focus on Defining the interest, attachment, and perfection? I'm really just trying to learn it enough where I can get a couple of points on ST essay if it comes up.


It is expected to come up this year. At least JD advising says so. That's why i am giving a special importance. I would go with priorities, seems like the most important thing. But I think it is necessary to establish other concepts before coming to priorities bcs everything goes in and order

arose928

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby arose928 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:42 pm

If you look at the average scores for all the graded essays, they have barely budged over the duration of the course. For example, for CA, this is the following average score for each graded essay:

Contracts: 59%
Property: 62%
Torts: 62%
CivPro: 65%
Evidence: 62%
CrimPro: 64%
PT: 64%
PT: 66%

If every student in a class fails to improve, it's probably not the student's fault, it's the teacher's fault. So either Themis is a crappy teacher, or they are just giving everyone middling grades to 'keep them motivated.' Make of it what you will.

Lawworld19

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:43 pm

MGH1989 wrote:Anyone want to talk me off the ledge about Secured Transactions? I neglected it too much and now I am trying to become somewhat competent in it before the exam. Should I just focus on Defining the interest, attachment, and perfection? I'm really just trying to learn it enough where I can get a couple of points on ST essay if it comes up.



I am doing the exact same. This is all I know and ALL I am going to know.

I did not take this class in law school and learned this in a few hours. People correct me if anything is wrong here, but this what I am going to roll with on the essay.

Type of goods - goods, consumer goods, inventory, accounts (AR)

Accessions - goods that can be identifiable even when situated in a new application like a jet engine on a jumbo jet. The SI will still be the jet engine not the jumbo jet because it is an accession not comingled goods.

Commingled goods - Lets say like flour, then it is used in a cake the S.I will now be the cake, not extracted flour or something.

Attachment-

V- Value, the creditor must give value to debtor
C- contract, there must be a financing agreement
R- Rights more than mere possession

For perfection it is either first to perfect or first to file.

Either perfect by FS with the sec of state, or negotiable instruments, cash etc are by possession. Consumer goods auto perfect. Inventory you need to file (I think may be wrong) and non inventory but also non consumer you have a 20 day grace period window in which you must file.

Physical title atleast in most states (check with your state) you must go to BMV or DMV and have your name listed on the physcial title to perfect, possession of title doesnt work in most states.

Remember the Buyer in ordinary course of biz rule. In short it means if you buy without knowledge of any issue or claim, and you buy from someone who ordinarily sells that sort of product, you take free and clear.

Rememebr consumer to consumer, when you buy from a consumer you take free and clear if you have no knowledge and there isnt already F.A.

Surplus and deficiency self explainatory.

Right of redmeption is self explainatory, certain states have notice req etc.

In repo ther buzz words are "breach of the peace", most states even the slightest opposition you can't repo.

Lawworld19

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:45 pm

PMSI in consumer goods/pmsi in goods, pmsi in inventory****

dlrkgml

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dlrkgml » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:46 pm

Advice to bounce back from a devastating practice exam #4 score with one week to go?

I got below average after scoring consistently in the mid 60s on mixed sets and am currently devoid of any will to live.

jcwest

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby jcwest » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:50 pm

dlrkgml wrote:Advice to bounce back from a devastating practice exam #4 score with one week to go?

I got below average after scoring consistently in the mid 60s on mixed sets and am currently devoid of any will to live.

I am waiting to review all the MBE subjects before I subject myself to disappoint. What is the current average score?

dabigchina

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:52 pm

arose928 wrote:If you look at the average scores for all the graded essays, they have barely budged over the duration of the course. For example, for CA, this is the following average score for each graded essay:

Contracts: 59%
Property: 62%
Torts: 62%
CivPro: 65%
Evidence: 62%
CrimPro: 64%
PT: 64%
PT: 66%

If every student in a class fails to improve, it's probably not the student's fault, it's the teacher's fault. So either Themis is a crappy teacher, or they are just giving everyone middling grades to 'keep them motivated.' Make of it what you will.

Someone in one of the past years submitted a model response from the CA bar website to one of the graded essays.

They received a 60.

Basically, themis essay grades mean nothing.



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