THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

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dnptan

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dnptan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:14 pm

The JT was severed with respect to the middle brother. The key principle here is that the JT is only severed woth respect to the severing party. In most cases, there are only two parties so the remaining interest becomes a TIC as well. But if there are multiple JT holders, they remain intact.

So:

1/3 1/3 1/3 JT

Then middle —> older

[1/3 + 1/3] JT (older, younger) + 1/3 TIC (older)

Then when younger dies, his devise to the daughter fails because of the JT so:

[1/3 + 1/3] JT older + 1/3 TIC —> older = 100% older

The interests merge into FSA

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lili8 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:15 pm

White Dwarf wrote:Joint Tenancy Question:

- 3 brothers each get 1/3 as Joint Tenants.
- Middle brother gives interest to Older brother.
- Then, Younger brother dies, leaving everything to his daughter.

I thought the transfer from Middle to Older severed the JT, so it would be: Older 2/3, Younger 1/3 as Tenants in Common --> Younger's interest goes to his daughter.

But, the question said the transfer from Middle to Older made it: Older 1/3 as JT + 1/3 as TIC, and Younger 1/3 JT --> Younger's interest goes to Older, who now owns property in FSA.

Did I miss something? This seems totally wrong.


The severance only applied to the portion that was given up, not to the tenancy of the remaining joint tenants. As between older and younger brother, their joint tenancy with rights of survivorship remained untouched.

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MGH1989

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby MGH1989 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:21 pm

White Dwarf wrote:Joint Tenancy Question:

- 3 brothers each get 1/3 as Joint Tenants.
- Middle brother gives interest to Older brother.
- Then, Younger brother dies, leaving everything to his daughter.

I thought the transfer from Middle to Older severed the JT, so it would be: Older 2/3, Younger 1/3 as Tenants in Common --> Younger's interest goes to his daughter.

But, the question said the transfer from Middle to Older made it: Older 1/3 as JT + 1/3 as TIC, and Younger 1/3 JT --> Younger's interest goes to Older, who now owns property in FSA.

Did I miss something? This seems totally wrong.


If you have three people and one of them transfers their interest in the JT, it only severs as to the interest in relation to the other two. So if A, B, and C are all JT and A transfers his portion of the property to D, B and C are still JT as to each other, while D is a tenant in common.

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White Dwarf

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby White Dwarf » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:26 pm

Thanks, can't believe I hadn't seen that yet.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:51 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:
jcwest wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2Fdmsdocument%2F17

Just did these sample 21 questions directly from NCBE website. Not sure if any of you don't know about it but can get them done in 38 mins.

How'd you do on them? I only got 14/21.



I only got a 13/21. Yikes.

The fact patterns seem easier to get through but some of the concepts I just didn't off the top of my head know if that makes sense.

hoping these were hard questions, because i only got 13/21 too.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby colaw12 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:53 pm

dabigchina wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:
jcwest wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2Fdmsdocument%2F17

Just did these sample 21 questions directly from NCBE website. Not sure if any of you don't know about it but can get them done in 38 mins.

How'd you do on them? I only got 14/21.



I only got a 13/21. Yikes.

The fact patterns seem easier to get through but some of the concepts I just didn't off the top of my head know if that makes sense.

hoping these were hard questions, because i only got 13/21 too.




I got a 12/21... lower than my average on all of the Barbri, Kaplan and NCBE practice exams I've taken. WTF

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:02 pm

I know I am prob just being paranoid but I did it, I just splurged on the 85$ and got the questions they released last year. I am going to tear thru 25 a day on top of bar prep. F***. Everyon keeps saying the new questions are different so I want to see how. That 13/21 kinda worried me.

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White Dwarf

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby White Dwarf » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:06 pm

As a general rule, don't trust "free practice questions" from organizations that are trying to sell you test-prep materials. They're usually artificially difficult in order to convince people they need to buy their products.
Last edited by White Dwarf on Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:06 pm

jcwest wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:
jcwest wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2Fdmsdocument%2F17

Just did these sample 21 questions directly from NCBE website. Not sure if any of you don't know about it but can get them done in 38 mins.

How'd you do on them? I only got 14/21.



I only got a 13/21. Yikes.

The fact patterns seem easier to get through but some of the concepts I just didn't off the top of my head know if that makes sense.
18 really pissed me off. I analyzed every step from divisible portions of the contract, to goods vs. service, to SoF.... and the answer is fair and equitable? Apparently I have to go over contracts more.

Yeah... I didn't get that either. I'm not even sure what doctrine it's under. Estoppel?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby colaw12 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:07 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:I know I am prob just being paranoid but I did it, I just splurged on the 85$ and got the questions they released last year. I am going to tear thru 25 a day on top of bar prep. F***. Everyon keeps saying the new questions are different so I want to see how. That 13/21 kinda worried me.



Can you let us know your thoughts?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dabigchina » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:08 pm

White Dwarf wrote:As a general rule, don't trust "free practice questions" from organizations that are trying to sell you test-prep materials. They're usually artificially difficult in order to convince people they need to buy their products.

That's kind of what I suspect too. These questions were probably the hardest questions they had on hand.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby colaw12 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:11 pm

dabigchina wrote:
jcwest wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:
jcwest wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2Fdmsdocument%2F17

Just did these sample 21 questions directly from NCBE website. Not sure if any of you don't know about it but can get them done in 38 mins.

How'd you do on them? I only got 14/21.



I only got a 13/21. Yikes.

The fact patterns seem easier to get through but some of the concepts I just didn't off the top of my head know if that makes sense.
18 really pissed me off. I analyzed every step from divisible portions of the contract, to goods vs. service, to SoF.... and the answer is fair and equitable? Apparently I have to go over contracts more.

Yeah... I didn't get that either. I'm not even sure what doctrine it's under. Estoppel?




It's the unforeseen circumstances exception to the preexisting duty rule
Last edited by colaw12 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby jcwest » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:11 pm

colaw12 wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:I know I am prob just being paranoid but I did it, I just splurged on the 85$ and got the questions they released last year. I am going to tear thru 25 a day on top of bar prep. F***. Everyon keeps saying the new questions are different so I want to see how. That 13/21 kinda worried me.



Can you let us know your thoughts?

Yeah, seriously. I would love to know. I'm feel so screwed its ridiculous.

What blows my mind is dabigchina has been dominating my Themis scores and I got 1 point higher on this NCBE test. Obviously 1 point means nothing but based him consistently hitting 70%-80 on Themis and me hitting 64%-74%... shouldn't he be at least 2 or 3 points higher than me?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:16 pm

I don't want to scare anyone on here but I spoke to my buddy who is a prosecutor last night who took Themis last year. Failed in Feb., passed in July. In July he passed, but was scoring in the high 70's on all MBE. He thought he was good, so the last two and a half weeks he did 0 MBE prep and focused solely on essays. He ended up passing, but with a 133 MBE. He rocked the essays, like top 10% rocked. In my jurisdiction that is ok because MBE is only 33%, but he told me don't let your foot off the gas on any front, it will nip you in the ass. SO for you guys in 50-66% jurisdictions, I guess stay on MBE till last day if possible.

Also it seems he severely under performed though on MBE.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lili8 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:36 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2Fdmsdocument%2F17

Just did these sample 21 questions directly from NCBE website. Not sure if any of you don't know about it but can get them done in 38 mins.


I got a 16/21 (76%), which is higher than the practice exams score. After last night's sleepy Civ Pro debacle, I'll take it!

Lawworld19

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lawworld19 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:45 pm

Lili8 wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2Fdmsdocument%2F17

Just did these sample 21 questions directly from NCBE website. Not sure if any of you don't know about it but can get them done in 38 mins.


I got a 16/21 (76%), which is higher than the practice exams score. After last night's sleepy Civ Pro debacle, I'll take it!



That is awesome. I see you are taking Virginia, which has a similarly annoying state essay portion. From what you hear people say, how well do you really need to know these state distinctions? So many of the Model Themis answers for Ohio use majority or use at most 60-75% Ohio law.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Lili8 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:25 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:
Lili8 wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2Fdmsdocument%2F17

Just did these sample 21 questions directly from NCBE website. Not sure if any of you don't know about it but can get them done in 38 mins.


I got a 16/21 (76%), which is higher than the practice exams score. After last night's sleepy Civ Pro debacle, I'll take it!



That is awesome. I see you are taking Virginia, which has a similarly annoying state essay portion. From what you hear people say, how well do you really need to know these state distinctions? So many of the Model Themis answers for Ohio use majority or use at most 60-75% Ohio law.


I haven't heard much aside from whatever info Themis provides, but the sample essays are liberally sprinkled with VA distinctions, so I'd assume I need to know them reasonably well.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby NotSkadden » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:41 pm

Lawworld19 wrote:I don't want to scare anyone on here but I spoke to my buddy who is a prosecutor last night who took Themis last year. Failed in Feb., passed in July. In July he passed, but was scoring in the high 70's on all MBE. He thought he was good, so the last two and a half weeks he did 0 MBE prep and focused solely on essays. He ended up passing, but with a 133 MBE. He rocked the essays, like top 10% rocked. In my jurisdiction that is ok because MBE is only 33%, but he told me don't let your foot off the gas on any front, it will nip you in the ass. SO for you guys in 50-66% jurisdictions, I guess stay on MBE till last day if possible.

Also it seems he severely under performed though on MBE.


Wonderful. I went from doing 50-100 questions a day to 10-25 because I was consistently scoring over 75% so I thought it was time to focus on the MEE.

This makes me feel great. /s

In all seriousness, I kind of setup my schedule so that today I'm finishing family, agency, partnerships, and conflicts (subjects I don't think will be on the MEE), tomorrow I'm doing a practice MBE (Kaplan's PMBR with Chris Fromm, anyone ever do this, think its worthwhile?). Then Tuesday, Wednesday I'm going to go over Contracts, Property, Evidence, Con, Crims, and Torts. Then Thursday, Friday, and Saturday doing Wills/Trusts, Corporations, and Secured because I think those will be on the test.

I was going to try and do 25 MBE adiptibar questions a day just to keep fresh and just stop doing Themis questions, but I've only done up to mixed set 6 so maybe this isn't the smartest idea.

What's everyone else doing?

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EncyclopediaOrange

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby EncyclopediaOrange » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:58 pm

I just did the free online ones. I did well but damn those felt much harder than the Themis questions.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dlrkgml » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:08 pm

I just did the official 21 questions and man was that a mistake... I got 13/21 and now, whatever confidence I had left, has been shot.

Seriously though, where did fair and equitable come from? And news-worthy? That's a legal defense? What about the government-designation question? I thought the reason why the FBI person could remain was because he was the investigating officer = he was essential to the case. Lastly, we weren't given the timeline for the disability complaint - opposing counsel isn't required to give opportunity to amend if the amendment isn't timely... right?
Last edited by dlrkgml on Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby EncyclopediaOrange » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:14 pm

dlrkgml wrote:I just did the official 21 questions and man was that a mistake... I got 11/20 and now, whatever confidence I had left, has been shot.

Seriously though, where did fair and equitable come from? And news-worthy? That's a legal defense? What about the government-designation question? I thought the reason why the FBI person could remain was because he was the investigating officer = he was essential to the case. Lastly, we weren't given the timeline for the disability complaint - opposing counsel isn't required to give opportunity to amend if the amendment isn't timely... right?


I think fair and equitable comes from impracticability. News-worthy means its a matter of public concern I guess? The government designation one bothered me a lot though. I guess it's the best answer because you do not prove their necessity after designation. I didn't really expect it to apply to the government though.

For sanctions, you have to serve the motion 21 days before filing it to give them a chance to amend or withdraw before filing.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby gasfard » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:16 pm

White Dwarf wrote:As a general rule, don't trust "free practice questions" from organizations that are trying to sell you test-prep materials. They're usually artificially difficult in order to convince people they need to buy their products.

Hope you're right about this! I just did the 21 Qs expecting to do much better than what I do in Themis, and ended up getting a similar result :shock: :shock:

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dlrkgml » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:21 pm

EncyclopediaOrange wrote:
dlrkgml wrote:I just did the official 21 questions and man was that a mistake... I got 11/20 and now, whatever confidence I had left, has been shot.

Seriously though, where did fair and equitable come from? And news-worthy? That's a legal defense? What about the government-designation question? I thought the reason why the FBI person could remain was because he was the investigating officer = he was essential to the case. Lastly, we weren't given the timeline for the disability complaint - opposing counsel isn't required to give opportunity to amend if the amendment isn't timely... right?


I think fair and equitable comes from impracticability. News-worthy means its a matter of public concern I guess? The government designation one bothered me a lot though. I guess it's the best answer because you do not prove their necessity after designation. I didn't really expect it to apply to the government though.


Wow, thanks so much EncyclopediaOrange! I wish I had your ability to make deductions...

Question though: I thought impracticability required more than just an increase in costs. 20% doesn't seem "impracticable," just not ideal. I suppose the impracticability argument can be made from the fact that an unexpected natural disaster caused the spike in prices, but I don't get why the impracticability argument should be prioritized (over consideration) given the situation still isn't made all that impracticable..?

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby EncyclopediaOrange » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:31 pm

dlrkgml wrote:
Question though: I thought impracticability required more than just an increase in costs. 20% doesn't seem "impracticable," just not ideal. I suppose the impracticability argument can be made from the fact that an unexpected natural disaster caused the spike in prices, but I don't get why the impracticability argument should be prioritized (over consideration) given the situation still isn't made all that impracticable..?


Just looked at the Themis Ks review outline. Common law contracts modified without consideration are ok if "unforeseen difficulties arise and one party agrees to compensate the other party for them."

This is still a pretty tough standard to meet though because I had a Themis Q where the breaching party caused the unforeseen difficulties and could not recover the additional money.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby dlrkgml » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:37 pm

EncyclopediaOrange wrote:
dlrkgml wrote:
Question though: I thought impracticability required more than just an increase in costs. 20% doesn't seem "impracticable," just not ideal. I suppose the impracticability argument can be made from the fact that an unexpected natural disaster caused the spike in prices, but I don't get why the impracticability argument should be prioritized (over consideration) given the situation still isn't made all that impracticable..?


Just looked at the Themis Ks review outline. Common law contracts modified without consideration are ok if "unforeseen difficulties arise and one party agrees to compensate the other party for them."

This is still a pretty tough standard to meet though because I had a Themis Q where the breaching party caused the unforeseen difficulties and could not recover the additional money.


Ah, you're right. I do see that. Thank you!!
I guess it's a relief that it's covered in the review outline. Hopefully that signals that Themis isn't giving us bare-bones to work with :cry:



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